Actually, I just tried U12t (all BA) and Nio (DD/BA hybrid) with LPGT and professional cable and dots facing forward and then back, and the only difference I hear is in soundstage width. So, when polarity is reversed, soundstage shrinks just a bit.
Hi, good question. Looks like someone posted a photo of the correct positioning of the cables. To answer your other question, theoretically (and practically) as long as both sides are wired the same, you will not hear a difference. Again, we don't want to refute anyone's claims of subjectively perceiving a difference. We make it easy to not worry about this a whole lot by building our cables in a way that makes the polarity obvious.
I've never experimented with this, I'm too OCD to not maintain consistent polarity when I connect gear. What I've heard is you can hear speakers (and by extension, head phones and IEMs perhaps) wired "in reverse" most easily with bass transients like drums. They will sound funny. If a driver is wired in reverse, when it's supposed to be pushing out, it will be pulling back and thus drums will sound weak and "flubby" rather than punchy. That's what I've heard, anyway.
Thank you for your responses. @64Audio@macdonjh I've noticed that the bass gets flubby whenever I use my u12ts with an aftermarket cable. This question might sound a bit silly, but what is the polarity (like the + and - on the pins) and impedance exactly of the stock cable?
My acquaintance thinks it might have something to do with the LID technology, the impedance of the cable, and the voltage divider in the IEM. I never thought cables could make an audible difference in headphones, so I'm a bit befuddled by this discovery.
@64Audio I noticed some pictures of the universal 18s going around the forum. As far as I know these are supposed to be demo sets and not available for retail. How are these being circulated around, and is there ever a plan to release the A18s in universal form?
Actually, I just tried U12t (all BA) and Nio (DD/BA hybrid) with LPGT and professional cable and dots facing forward and then back, and the only difference I hear is in soundstage width. So, when polarity is reversed, soundstage shrinks just a bit.
This is a benefit of 2-pin connector over MMCX : can easily play with different polarity. (MMCX cann't change polarity)
I only played with polarity with over-the-ear headphones and speakers, yes, the effect is noticeable: when polarity is incorrect the sound stage collapse; when it is correct, things pop out.
My understanding why polarity matters is mainly due to the air flow direction of the initial impact: e.g. for instruments like drum: when polarity is correct, the air should be push out from the driver of the speaker. if incorrect, the speaker membrane's initial motion is 'suck in'.
So for speakers and headphones who move a lot of air, polarity is important.
Haven't played with this with BA IEMs, because I thought BA driver doesn't move air. I will give it a try.
PS.
1. In order to notice the effect of different polarity setting, need really really good DAC/Amp front end.
E.g. with Schiit YGGY DAC, I can easily tell the different, but with lesser capable DACs I can't hear the difference of polarity
2. Not all music recordings are the same polarity. There is no 'universal correct polarity' convention in the music recording studios.
I read an article saying more than half of the recordings made by USA studios were 'wrong' polarity. And sometimes even in 1 song with mixing of multiple instruments, some of the instruments were wrong polarity.
Uh, no. This is an advantage of MMCX and (minor) disadvantage of 2 pin. Polarity is something you DON'T want to play with. Leave it to Head-Fi to turn the most basic of concepts into a controversy.
For God's sake people, wire your sound in phase. Let the recording artists play with out-of-phase effects in their recordings.
Sorry, rant over.
Edit:
I just re-read the post I replied to. Sorry about my first reaction. Actually, the post is more bonkers than I originally thought. If you're not talking about in-phase / out-of phase, but rather whether, say both +s are forward or both +s are rear-ward, then that's even nuttier. They're equivalent. If you think you can hear whether a 1 khz waveform starts "pushing" vs "pulling", I will be willing to offer 10 to 1 odds with you on a blind A/B test that you can't tell the difference. I mean on overall test results for a statistically significant result. Obviously, I'm not offering 10 to 1 odds on each event of which you have a 50-50 chance of being correct
Thank you for your responses. @64Audio@macdonjh I've noticed that the bass gets flubby whenever I use my u12ts with an aftermarket cable. This question might sound a bit silly, but what is the polarity (like the + and - on the pins) and impedance exactly of the stock cable?
My acquaintance thinks it might have something to do with the LID technology, the impedance of the cable, and the voltage divider in the IEM. I never thought cables could make an audible difference in headphones, so I'm a bit befuddled by this discovery.
When comparing, are you using the same source (and which one?) and playing the same track at the same volume? And which aftermarket cable, including how many wires/conductors, are you using? With LID tech the output impedance of your source is no longer part of the equation. So if anything, depending on your cable, the impedance of the wire could be different, like doubling the amount of conductors or having thicker wires will lower the impedance.
With the polarity, relative to stock cable it doesn't matter because it will be connected only one way since housing of connectors has L/R marking and the cable is guided one way over your ears. Even professional stock cable has this slight tilt at the base of the connector guiding you which way to bend the wire. There shouldn't be any discrepancies here. With other aftermarket cables, most have L/R marking and heat-shrink earhook guiding the cable over your ears so you will not flip the pins of 2pin connector, it always goes one way. But in case if you have a cable without earhook guide or it has a memory wire which you can shape either way, always look for a notch on the plastic part of the connector next to the pins, that is a universal 2pin connector indicator which should be facing outward. If you follow that, it doesn't matter which pin is + or - since cable gets connected only one way.
Tia Trio purchased! About a 2 week wait for production but looking forward to hearing it finally. Hopefully I can get a good seal, didn’t have the best of luck with the Noir.
Don’t mean to dampen the excitement, I think the shape/size of all the three (Trio, Fourte and Noir) are similar if not exactly the same. Hope I’m wrong and you have better luck. Anyway, I look forward to your impressions on the Trio, as well as how you find them compared to the Noirs.
Don’t mean to dampen the excitement, I think the shape/size of all the three (Trio, Fourte and Noir) are similar if not exactly the same. Hope I’m wrong and you have better luck. Anyway, I look forward to your impressions on the Trio, as well as how you find them compared to the Noirs.
They are the same. I plan to spend more time tip rolling with the Trio though assuming it fits my sound preferences, which based off of what I have read, it will. I wasn’t the biggest fan of the Noir’s mid range so I didn’t really put in the extra effort to get the fit down.
They are the same. I plan to spend more time tip rolling with the Trio though assuming it fits my sound preferences, which based off of what I have read, it will. I wasn’t the biggest fan of the Noir’s mid range so I didn’t really put in the extra effort to get the fit down.
To me noirs is a beast and trio is the calm cat lol.
Noirs are more exiting in sound, they offer punchier stronger sound. Bass goes deeper and very dynamically pushed.
Mids are much more forward and mid bass was too much for me.
Thankfully the symbiote fixed it.
Trio has a more U shape sound and noirs are w. I got away from trio because noirs abilities with the additional mid tia ba driver simply gives 0 chances to trio to sound as good as the noirs can with mids and specially vocals.
Trio is really good with edm, rock, drums...
One thing I remember by memory trio had a sharper treble then the noirs... But less then original fourte.
To me its obvious noirs is the clear winner. Trio has a different sound tunning, so you can own both for a change.
Thank you for your responses. @64Audio@macdonjh I've noticed that the bass gets flubby whenever I use my u12ts with an aftermarket cable. This question might sound a bit silly, but what is the polarity (like the + and - on the pins) and impedance exactly of the stock cable?
My acquaintance thinks it might have something to do with the LID technology, the impedance of the cable, and the voltage divider in the IEM. I never thought cables could make an audible difference in headphones, so I'm a bit befuddled by this discovery.
The impedance of our cable is bellow .5ohms, the stock cable is is an un-balanced 2pin where the negative pins on both sides share the "Sleeve" pin of the 3.5mm TRS connector. The "Tip" pin of the TRS is the positive pin of the left IEM, and the "Ring" pin of the TRS is the positive pin on the right IEM.
@64Audio I noticed some pictures of the universal 18s going around the forum. As far as I know these are supposed to be demo sets and not available for retail. How are these being circulated around, and is there ever a plan to release the A18s in universal form?
The U18s pictures that we've seen online are all demo units that are not for resale. We've been reaching out to the current and former dealers who have sold these off to try to resolve this issue and future similar issues. Just as a forewarning to folks interested in buying demo units online, they are not serviceable in any way if you are not the dealer in possession of the demo unit for demo purposes. If you're not a dealer and the unit breaks or has a manufacturing defect that causes a fault, we will not be able to service that unit.
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
