[mwhals]

^

congrats, buddy!

share your thoughts once you receive them.

Will do! If they sound anything like the U12t I had on loan, they will be awesome.

 

[Frankie D]

Only my irrational fixation on balanced outputs is keeping me safe from the Chord product line.

The way the Hugo is set up, the SE outputs sound better than balanced. The Chord design team believed in SE. Now, another product might sound better with the the balanced outputs, it depends on the product and the design team’s decisions. I am personally not a big believer in the 2.5mm balanced outputs. Even in high end home stereo there is still debate of balanced vs single ended, and there it also depends on the product. It doesn’t make it easy for us as users does it? Tks.

 

[mwhals]

The hardest part will be the wait for my custom. Since 64 Audio and Empire Ears both get my impressions on June 8th, it will interesting to see which gets shipped first.

 

[seedubchris]

Only my irrational fixation on balanced outputs is keeping me safe from the Chord product line.

I had the same fixation culminating in the V280. I wasn’t happy to have to pay to re terminate all my pet cabling to acomodate the madness down at Chord with the SE vs. balanced thing. I got over it fast. It seems the design philosophy with the Hugo 2 is to have as few components in the way of your audio as possible . I even believe there in only one capacitor and one resistor between the dac part of the design and the output . Rob says he would loose sleep with any more so we wouldn’t want that for the bloke would we... you can see balanced was never going to be the call. I have compared the balanced outputs with the SE on my Hugo 2 TT which Rob included in the TT for “convenience “ and I would have to agree that the SE in this design is that much more clear which is the signature dish of the Hugo. This is why I believe the chord products are superior to most daps with 64 audio products. They pair well. I seem to remember 64 audio using the Mojo to power their iems at Canjam last year.

 

[mwhals]

What is a good balanced cable for an A12t? I am thinking no more than $400.

 

[seedubchris]

Well this is a complex subject, and sometimes a balanced connection does sound better than single ended (SE) - in a pre-power context - but it depends upon the environment, and the pre and power and the interconnect. But the downside of balanced is that you are doubling the number of analogue components in the direct signal path, and this degrades transparency. In my experience every passive component is audible, every metal to metal interface (including solder joints - I once had a lot of fun listening to solder) has an impact - in case of metal/metal interfaces it degrades detail resolution and the perception of depth. So going balanced will have a cost in transparency.

In DAC design, going balanced is essential with silicon design; there is simply too much substrate noise and other effects not too. But with discrete DAC's you do not need to worry about this, so going SE on a discrete DAC is possible, and is how all my DAC's are done. But differential operation hides certain problems (notably reference circuit) that has serious SQ effects; so going SE means those problems are exposed, which forces one to solve the issue fundamentally. In short, to make SE work you have to solve many more problems, but the result of solving those problems solves SQ issues than differential operation hides when you do measurements.

In case anyone cares to hear it from the horses mouth so to speak here is Rob Watts on the subject of SE vs. Balanced


Rob

Balanced has the downside of extra complexity, which will have an impact on transparency.

 

[Dt1193]

Yup, for me it's officially Tia fourte over z1r. Didn't even think it was possible. And despite all the people telling me fourte is trash.

Soundstage is too amazing on the fourte. Fourte is a masterpiece in my humble opinion.

 

[ostewart]

Whilst Rob Watts knows quite a bit about the technical side of things, stuff like this really makes me question a lot of what he says:

"I remember him stating somewhere that he could hear/detect artefacts well below -200dBFS and even below -300dB in one post. However, that is plainly ridiculous if you have any understanding of what the decibel scale actually is and what the levels he's talking about actually represent. Even at -144dB (the theoretical limit of 24bit audio) we're talking about the approximate sound level produced by two hydrogen atoms colliding, -204dB is one thousand times lower than that and -304dB is one hundred million times lower!"

 

[candlejack]

Whilst Rob Watts knows quite a bit about the technical side of things, stuff like this really makes me question a lot of what he says:

"I remember him stating somewhere that he could hear/detect artefacts well below -200dBFS and even below -300dB in one post. However, that is plainly ridiculous if you have any understanding of what the decibel scale actually is and what the levels he's talking about actually represent. Even at -144dB (the theoretical limit of 24bit audio) we're talking about the approximate sound level produced by two hydrogen atoms colliding, -204dB is one thousand times lower than that and -304dB is one hundred million times lower!"

So much knowledge in that quote. I didn't know that atoms colliding produces sound. smh..

 

[Somatics]

Yup, for me it's officially Tia fourte over z1r. Didn't even think it was possible. And despite all the people telling me fourte is trash.

Soundstage is too amazing on the fourte. Fourte is a masterpiece in my humble opinion.

It really is something incredibly special, isn't it? Really happy to hear you like it. I A/B'd it against the U18t and whilst I ultimately went with the 18, I was stunned that this piece of copper witchcraft was able to match it with just 4 drivers. The holography of the soundstage was something else, totally unprecedented.

 

[Dt1193]

It really is something incredibly special, isn't it? Really happy to hear you like it. I A/B'd it against the U18t and whilst I ultimately went with the 18, I was stunned that this piece of copper witchcraft was able to match it with just 4 drivers. The holography of the soundstage was something else, totally unprecedented.

why did you pick the u18t over this? also im pretty sure the housing on the fourte is alumnium.

 

[killaHz]

why did you pick the u18t over this? also im pretty sure the housing on the fourte is alumnium.

I think that little faceplate in the middle is some kind of copper that's been acid-washed. Or maybe he means the wiring.

 

[Dt1193]

behold i have found my endgame trio: andromeda, fourte, lcdi4
nothing else matters.

 

[Somatics]

I think that little faceplate in the middle is some kind of copper that's been acid-washed. Or maybe he means the wiring.

It's copper coloured, that is all I meant. Headfi, the only place where the metal composition of an IEM is challenged, but a word like "witchcraft" is par for the course.

I chose the U18t over the Fourte because of a couples of reasons. Firstly, cost. I'm in Australia and the Fourte is $5.5K here. The U18t is $4.6K. I found the top end on the Fourte sibilant, a claim I've heard from a few people both before and after my listening. I have a bunch of well produced songs I demo all gear with (Steve Vai - The Animal, Van Halen - Girl Gone Bad, Fleetwood Mac - Dreams, Bill Evans - Blue in Green, Kate Bush - Misty, Guns 'n' Roses - Welcome to the Jungle, Steely Dan - Peg, Josie, Michael Jackson - Billie Jean, The Cure - Lullaby, The Eagles - Life in the Fast Lane are some of the notable tracks) which give me a clear sense of performance, and the Fourte had a piercing treble on 80% of those. I loved the soundstage and the mids, but could not in good conscience buy it. The U18t was and remains my perfect signature. That said... I use Symbios eartips now and I've heard that they tame the Fourte's treble, so I'm going to demo the Fourte again when I try their new mystery flagship product that should be out this month. Woohoo.

 

[Dt1193]

It's copper coloured, that is all I meant. Headfi, the only place where the metal composition of an IEM is challenged, but a word like "witchcraft" is par for the course.

I chose the U18t over the Fourte because of a couples of reasons. Firstly, cost. I'm in Australia and the Fourte is $5.5K here. The U18t is $4.6K. I found the top end on the Fourte sibilant, a claim I've heard from a few people both before and after my listening. I have a bunch of well produced songs I demo all gear with (Steve Vai - The Animal, Van Halen - Girl Gone Bad, Fleetwood Mac - Dreams, Bill Evans - Blue in Green, Kate Bush - Misty, Guns 'n' Roses - Welcome to the Jungle, Steely Dan - Peg, Josie, Michael Jackson - Billie Jean, The Cure - Lullaby, The Eagles - Life in the Fast Lane are some of the notable tracks) which give me a clear sense of performance, and the Fourte had a piercing treble on 80% of those. I loved the soundstage and the mids, but could not in good conscience buy it. The U18t was and remains my perfect signature. That said... I use Symbios eartips now and I've heard that they tame the Fourte's treble, so I'm going to demo the Fourte again when I try their new mystery flagship product that should be out this month. Woohoo.

hmmmm... i used to be super sensitive to treble and sibilance but no longer. thank god, because i do not like warm iems.

and the u18t were just that, they were warm and also had a very distinct v-shape. i detected the v-shape suddenly in my demo and was like 'whoa'.

so as i switched between the fourte and u18t, i kept feeling pulled back towards the u18t. however, i reasoned that it was because of the warmth. warm sound is inviting.

so the reasons why i dismissed the u18t was:

1) warmth is not my preference
2) distinct v-shape so it just sounds too man-made. it was almost "perfectly crafted"
3) i bought and returned the u12t and some claim it to be better than u18t. but ultimately u12t was more neutral but at times sounded congested due to 12 drivers. so im guessing the u18t would sound even more congested.

i've read recently many people claiming the u18t to be 'perfect' or 'just so good can't imagine selling' which i believe; but o well, got the fourtes and its pretty hard to imagine them topping the fourtes despite what people say.