[gnahra]

And you are saying better then my Tia Noir's? Hmmm

I would say, a18s and Noir are probably 2 iems to compliment each other as they both offer what eache other cant do.

Tough I will say this. U18t vs u12 and I found u12 to be more musical and delicate. U18t was very technical...

I am still holding out some hope they come out with a U18s down the road - would be a 100% upgrade/blind buy for me versus my U12t.

 

[CL14715]

I am still holding out some hope they come out with a U18s down the road - would be a 100% upgrade/blind buy for me versus my U12t.

I am still holding on to hope that won’t be living under a bridge. If I am though... I’ll have some damn fine tunes. I’ll charge my DAP at the nearest gas stations outside socket.

 

[iDesign]

I am still holding out some hope they come out with a U18s down the road - would be a 100% upgrade/blind buy for me versus my U12t.

Although I understand the benefits of universal versions such as resale, the fit of custom monitors is so crucial that I couldn’t imagine a flagship like the A18s any other way. Having owned many high-end universal monitors and tried numerous silicon and foam tips that seemingly only amounted to imprecise fit/compromised isolation, I would never go back. Ever.

 

[MeggaMortY]

Although I understand the benefits of universal versions such as resale, the fit of custom monitors is so crucial that I couldn’t imagine a flagship like the A18s any other way. Having owned many high-end universal monitors and tried numerous silicon and foam tips that seemingly only amounted to imprecise fit/compromised isolation, I would never go back. Ever.

Not only that, even with the same tips and a good seal, every time I put them on something has changed, either for good or for worse. That personally drove me mad and made me realize I'm spending time trying to tweak something that comes and goes depending on the day. With customs the experience is like exactly the same 99.99% of the times.

The only issue with customs I have is that I don't like the idea of owning a 2k+ device and then buying another 3k+ device, making the first one sit and collect dust - in the case of 12t vs 18s that would probably happen. I haven't found a good solution to this, maybe try to refit it with some 3rd party and gift it to family, since selling it for like 800 doesn't really bring much.

 

[MeggaMortY]

I think this might come off as critisism, but I put my IE-8 to get a feel for DD bass again as so many people praise its benefits. The IE-8 although not in the kilobuck+ category, pack a serious punch when it comes to bass. I get what people say in regards to bone conduction being a feature of DD, but while I enjoyed the extra head-shake, it also reminded me instantly that I'm using earphones, since you know, only my head vibrated instead of my whole body like in standalone speaker systems. So it was more of a let down and a constant reminder imo, I'll probably not gain much from a Nio.

 

[gLer]

I think this might come off as critisism, but I put my IE-8 to get a feel for DD bass again as so many people praise its benefits. The IE-8 although not in the kilobuck+ category, pack a serious punch when it comes to bass. I get what people say in regards to bone conduction being a feature of DD, but while I enjoyed the extra head-shake, it also reminded me instantly that I'm using earphones, since you know, only my head vibrated instead of my whole body like in standalone speaker systems. So it was more of a let down and a constant reminder imo, I'll probably not gain much from a Nio.

That's an interesting observation. I personally don't share it because I see IEMs, headphones and speakers as distinctly different categories. Expecting the same sensation from any with respect to another is asking for dissapointment. I personally appreciate the differences between all three, and each has advantages (and disadvantages) over each of the others.

IEMs, for example, are a much more intimate and immediate way of listening to much of my music, especially vocal-driven music. I miss that immediacy and unmatched resolving power of IEMs whenever I listen to speakers or even headphones, just as I'm aware the full body experience of speakers isn't going to happen with the other two, and the awesome sense of space I get with my HD800s isn't going to magically appear with IEMs.

That said, there's nothing that compensates for certain physical qualities, and DD bass is one of them. It was the one aspect that was always missing from the U12t, which in every other respect is one of (if not the) best transducer of any format I've heard. No doubt the 18s would be even better, but it'll still be missing that one crucial aspect that happens to sit right up top of my priority list.

As for custom vs universal, while I share your frustration with tips and tip rolling, I've been able to get very consistent fit (and sound) once I narrowed down my optimal tip for each IEM (currently Xelastec with Nio). I've never used a custom before, but one thing that puts me off is the deep insertion of a custom. I hate anything going inside my ear canals, and the Xelastec tips stop just at the entrance to my canals, which to me is the most comfortable solution. Any deeper and I'm always fussing with them and feeling the pressure of the tip inside my ear.

One day I'll get to try customs, but unless it's done the way Campfire does it with their shallow fit Andromeda custom option, I can almost guarantee it won't be for me.

Just my alternate perspectives. Good chat.

 

[MeggaMortY]

As for custom vs universal, while I share your frustration with tips and tip rolling, I've been able to get very consistent fit (and sound) once I narrowed down my optimal tip for each IEM (currently Xelastec with Nio). I've never used a custom before, but one thing that puts me off is the deep insertion of a custom. I hate anything going inside my ear canals, and the Xelastec tips stop just at the entrance to my canals, which to me is the most comfortable solution. Any deeper and I'm always fussing with them and feeling the pressure of the tip inside my ear.

One day I'll get to try customs, but unless it's done the way Campfire does it with their shallow fit Andromeda custom option, I can almost guarantee it won't be for me.

I understand what you mean about insertion, I was pretty afraid of the whole process and my twisty ear-canal not being a fit for customs. The first couple of nights I remember waking up due to the memory-effect sensation they left in my ears, like there was still something in them. After those two-three days, the skin gets used to and honestly, with a good fitting custom, you get (almost) 0 pressure whereas tips always push on the sides of the ear canal.

As with most things audio, this is based on my own personal experience, but I was surprised that even with my bendy ear canals customs are a no-brainer, even the deeper ones like 64audio.

 

[gLer]

I understand what you mean about insertion, I was pretty afraid of the whole process and my twisty ear-canal not being a fit for customs. The first couple of nights I remember waking up due to the memory-effect sensation they left in my ears, like there was still something in them. After those two-three days, the skin gets used to and honestly, with a good fitting custom, you get (almost) 0 pressure whereas tips always push on the sides of the ear canal.

The one thing stopping me from considering a potential custom 'upgrade' is Nio not being available as a custom (or Trio for that matter). As much as I loved the U12t (and may one day get an A12t should I make the move to customs), I'd want a Nio-equivalent custom, and I don't think the N8 is it.

 

[MeggaMortY]

The one thing stopping me from considering a potential custom 'upgrade' is Nio not being available as a custom (or Trio for that matter). As much as I loved the U12t (and may one day get an A12t should I make the move to customs), I'd want a Nio-equivalent custom, and I don't think the N8 is it.

On top of that I wouldn't really consider any brand that doesn't have some sort of pressure valve system like the APEX, just because the isolation is so much I wouldn't like to imagine what that can do to the ears with repeated listening. When I was trying IEMs to decide on a brand I felt all the other universals felt just as boxed-in as my IE-8 whereas 64audio IEMs felt like someone put the mute on everything around me, but (almost) no real pressure was felt in the ears. Just my two cents.

 

[gLer]

On top of that I wouldn't really consider any brand that doesn't have some sort of pressure valve system like the APEX, just because the isolation is so much I wouldn't like to imagine what that can do to the ears with repeated listening. When I was trying IEMs to decide on a brand I felt all the other universals felt just as boxed-in as my IE-8 whereas 64audio IEMs felt like someone put the mute on everything around me, but (almost) no real pressure was felt in the ears. Just my two cents.

Yes, fantastic point. I enjoy reading reviews of other IEMs like the LX and the new VE and EE flagships, and keep reminding myself: no Apex (or similar), no chance. Especially for someone like me who enjoys the (occasionally) head rattling piston of DD bass millimetres from my eardrums at decent volume for long hours, the thought of doing that without Apex over an extended period is unfathomable.

 

[MatW]

The one thing stopping me from considering a potential custom 'upgrade' is Nio not being available as a custom (or Trio for that matter). As much as I loved the U12t (and may one day get an A12t should I make the move to customs), I'd want a Nio-equivalent custom, and I don't think the N8 is it.

Likewise, would love to know if there is a Nio-equivalent custom, even if from another brand.

 

[gLer]

Likewise, would love to know if there is a Nio-equivalent custom, even if from another brand.

If there is, chances are it won't have Apex, which is a deal-breaker for me.

 

[MatW]

If there is, chances are it won't have Apex, which is a deal-breaker for me.

Yes, I took notice of that, good to bear in mind, thanks. Apart from Nio and U12T (which I'll likely sell), I have Fiio FH7 (which I'll probably also be selling), and with those I never had any issues, in terms of lacking Apex technology. But then I am still fairly new to iems.

 

[gLer]

Yes, I took notice of that, good to bear in mind, thanks. Apart from Nio and U12T (which I'll likely sell), I have Fiio FH7 (which I'll probably also be selling), and with those I never had any issues, in terms of lacking Apex technology. But then I am still fairly new to iems.

Much depends on the volume you listen at, and also how long you listen for. The FH7 were my IEMs prior to the U12t. Great IEMs, but needless to say the 64 Audio IEMs are another level altogether. I found the FH7 a touch too light/bright for my liking, but they sounded very good for what they cost.

 

[MatW]

Agreed. Great entry level iems. I listen at moderate volumes and usually no longer than 1 hour at a time. With iems. Longer with over-ears.