[JMR77]

I have them both right now. The trio may potentially be a bit technically superior. It's airier in the treble with a slightly more holographic soundstage. It's slightly recessed in the mids, which you don't care about. Bass hits well, though I would say it's slightly more of a subbass focus.

The nio though is more laid back than the trio, mostly attributed to it being a warmer sound overall and has more laid back treble. Treble is still detailed just maybe without the extra sparkle/air. It also has more forward mids than the trio. Bass quantity is larger than the trio (with m15 module). Soundstage is more width than holographic, though it's really not that different overall go the trio (but then again most soundstage changes between iems are pretty minor anyways).

Personally, since I got the nio, I haven't been using my trio as I just really enjoy the sound from the nio. But I think if you are looking for bass and treble, (v shaped is what I'm hearing), the trio may be the better choice. But if looking for more relaxed and warm, the nio is fantastic and also 600 dollars cheaper if buying new... Though I am sure lower pricef trios can be had used (like mine will almost certainly be when I put it up for sale), while the nio is so new and stock still so low that it may be a while before they start showing up for sale used.

I pretty much agree with this comparison.

I just compared both Nio and Trió with 4 songs.

Clearly the Trió offers a bit more clarity with detail retrieval because it has more treble. But with Nio you can change modules and the MX module changes the overall signature notably. So by using different tips and modules you have more versatility with Nio.

With the Nio I just changed the stock silicon tips with Comply ones and the sound out of the M15 module changed more than I thought, rather than sub bass being the protagonist, a "mass" of (still good) bass was more present and soundstage felt less expansive/airy. Then swapping to the MX module with Comply tips the sound opened again (more air and soundstage) and sub bass was more distinguishable again also midrange (specially) and treble took the lead. Using Comply tips with the MX module was close to using stock silicon tips with the M15 module to my ears, but with better bass impact.

 

[Marat Sar]

I just wish it wasn’t such an ugly IEM in universal.

With a nice cable like the Iliad, and the fir audio golden module, the u18t can start to look pretty nice in my opinion. Like a jewel. It's also very enjoyable to hold, physically. Though yes, it's not aesthetically perfect by any measure. And the Noir is considerably prettier, so is the Nio, and even the u12t in some ways.

Aaahheimmm heiiim excuse me! Sir

Where is that DD in u18???

The Noir's DD is very very liquid and enjoyable. But that DD comes with added fatigue, so -- sure, it's flashier and cooler and more enjoyable, but u18t has absoluely impeccable, linear bass that I can listen to 4-5 h a day. For an all-rounder that's pretty perfect for me.

In fact, the Noir's bass is so fatiguing I can't use the tips I otherwise like most for them (final E black ones) -- because although signature-wise they're perfect, rolling off the treble peak, they also add bass and make the Noir even more fatiguing.

Again, I love the Noir. Not saying there's anything wrong with them. The perfect mistress. But the u18t I married

 

[Vitaly2017]

With a nice cable like the Iliad, and the fir audio golden module, the u18t can start to look pretty nice in my opinion. Like a jewel. It's also very enjoyable to hold, physically. Though yes, it's not aesthetically perfect by any measure. And the Noir is considerably prettier, so is the Nio, and even the u12t in some ways.



The Noir's DD is very very liquid and enjoyable. But that DD comes with added fatigue, so -- sure, it's flashier and cooler and more enjoyable, but u18t has absoluely impeccable, linear bass that I can listen to 4-5 h a day. For an all-rounder that's pretty perfect for me.

In fact, the Noir's bass is so fatiguing I can't use the tips I otherwise like most for them (final E black ones) -- because although signature-wise they're perfect, rolling off the treble peak, they also add bass and make the Noir even more fatiguing.

Again, I love the Noir. Not saying there's anything wrong with them. The perfect mistress. But the u18t I married

Hehe thats okay with me but I got around the big wide bass off the noir!
Stock cable and stock small foams!

Also switched from 1z to 1a and damnnn it good and tight! I think I loved Trio bass that I am trying to make noir sound as closest possible to them haaa

I really enjoy wm1a and new 1a+ fw with my noir a much better pairing then with 1z!

 

[dleblanc343]

Do you think IEMs will always be inferior to full size? I think the best IEMs these days that they're an easy win over full size just on convenience alone...and the gap in sound quality is getting narrower and narrower (if it exists at all).

The only iem I can straight compare to my better headphones is my KSE1500, in its effortless black background and diffuse field staging like no other iem out there. Problem is, it’s fussy and not all that portable, and making me appreciate my Nio all the more.

IEM’s have really evolved dramatically in the last 5 years, but they still have lots of catching up to the effortless nature of TOTL headphones. They’ve closed the gap, certainly, but there’s always room for improvement!

Call me crazy, but I also think the next revolution in iem’s is proper implementation of a single transducer, as opposed to multi drivers - whether it’s newcomer e-stat iem’s (none since KSE afaik) or perhaps well developed Beryllium driver iem’s...

All this is mostly from a technical performance standpoint, but what’s nice about some of today’s totl iem’s is how they’ve been purposely tailored through multi-BA/ dynamics to offer fantastic tunings (Z1R, 64A, Solaris, VX, etc), yet they falter when it comes to the last word on resolution and transparency.

 

[Damz87]

The Noir is fatiguing for me too. I like the hot treble but only for short listening sessions. The Nio is like the direct opposite. Super smooth and can listen without any fatigue for hours

 

[gLer]

It's not perfect, the U18t is perfect.

Where is that DD in u18???

I just wish it wasn’t such an ugly IEM in universal.

I have yet to hear the Fourte Noir, but the U12t was amazing to my ears.

If the above confirms anything for me, it's that there's no such thing as the 'perfect' IEM.

But, we can definitely find one that does most things well enough with the music we listen to for us not to want or need to listen with anything else.

The U12t was it for me. It had more bass and a warmer tuning than the U18t, and friendlier treble without losing resolution or detail to the Trio.

With the U12t I could listen all day and never get fatigued. It had an understated design that was at the same time less impressive and less ugly than the U18t and Fourte/Noir faceplates (really 64 Audio?), and what it lacked in 'fun' it made up for in spades in probably the best tuning, stage, spacing, imaging and effortless delivery of every single genre.

But it wasn't perfect. It didn't have a DD, and even though it had easily the best BA bass I'd heard in an IEM, you just can't simulate the 'feeling' of DD bass with a BA.

Still, since I wasn't going custom, and no other IEM maker had Apex (except for Fir and I wasn't keen on any of their IEMs), the U12t was the best that 64 Audio made for my taste.

Until Nio.

And yet there is still no perfect IEM, even though Nio has inched ever so user to that ideal for me. It gives me most of what the U12t did in terms of tuning, and what it lacks in absolute technicalities (especially that very unique sense of 3D space), it makes up for in cohesiveness, impact and overall enjoyment. It's also the best looking IEM I've seen, bar none.

Still, I sometimes miss the finesse with which the U12t could render even the finest detail and subtle nuance in a track, though as of next week the Fir 0 module might go some way to restoring that ability.

So all of that is to say - there is no perfect IEM, not that I've seen or heard. The best we can do is get as close as possible, or fall into the trap of endlessly chasing the impossible.

 

[mvvRAZ]

The only iem I can straight compare to my better headphones is my KSE1500, in its effortless black background and diffuse field staging like no other iem out there. Problem is, it’s fussy and not all that portable, and making me appreciate my Nio all the more.

IEM’s have really evolved dramatically in the last 5 years, but they still have lots of catching up to the effortless nature of TOTL headphones. They’ve closed the gap, certainly, but there’s always room for improvement!

Call me crazy, but I also think the next revolution in iem’s is proper implementation of a single transducer, as opposed to multi drivers - whether it’s newcomer e-stat iem’s (none since KSE afaik) or perhaps well developed Beryllium driver iem’s...

All this is mostly from a technical performance standpoint, but what’s nice about some of today’s totl iem’s is how they’ve been purposely tailored through multi-BA/ dynamics to offer fantastic tunings (Z1R, 64A, Solaris, VX, etc), yet they falter when it comes to the last word on resolution and transparency.

The thing is, what you're mentioning here isn't an objective upgrade in performance, but specifically your preferences.

Diffuse field staging and effortless presentations (in IEMs and headphones alike) don't provide enough engagement for me to manage to get through a single track. Sure headphones may provide a more realistic experience, but as I've stated in other threads, my absolutely last priority is a realistic sound.

If I am to shell out 2/3/4/5000 euros on a setup, I want it to provide something I cannot hear anywhere else, i.e an exaggerated, insane and over-the-top sound. Headphones, especially open backs, fail at providing that 10/10 times. They seem to be designed to sorta halfway mimic a speaker setup, and get obliterated by every single speaker setup I've heard (mind you I'd still take IEMs over speakers)

 

[cantsleep]

I do miss headphones like L3k, r10, O2, and even he90 but.. iems nowadays are sooo good!

Remember we only had one good iem back then, ue10pro

 

[gLer]

I think the Nio (and U12t) are technically superior to the HD800 (my benchmark reference headphone), and definitely more fun to listen to. BUT the HD800 still does things no IEM (or headphone for that matter) can do, so to compare them doesn't make sense unless you have to choose one or the other. Luckily I don't have to choose.

 

[dleblanc343]

The thing is, what you're mentioning here isn't an objective upgrade in performance, but specifically your preferences.

Diffuse field staging and effortless presentations (in IEMs and headphones alike) don't provide enough engagement for me to manage to get through a single track. Sure headphones may provide a more realistic experience, but as I've stated in other threads, my absolutely last priority is a realistic sound.

Effortless is the first word I’d use to describe KSE1500, and besides HE1, Susvara and SR1A’s I think it’s objectively the top performer in today’s lineup of iem’s/ hp’s irregardless of tuning preferences. It just sounds real when given the chance. The problem, and you’re totally right - is that most recordings do not do it justice, and it lacks charm, it lacks bite, it lacks body sometimes; it’s not the most musical!

I personally see my Nio as the better all arounder, more enjoyable product, but still think KSE is objectively the best iem yet.

I’ve heard Vitaly’s pair of Noir’s and would take those over the Shure if I could. If you told me to sell off one of Nio or KSE, I would actually keep Nio because it is more pleasurable and versatile, despite not being as tight.

At the end of the day, I’m confident in saying the Shure is objectively the best Iem, but falters where it counts, in its enjoyment factor. I know my good friend titienne tried to like em, and just couldn’t warm up to them because the music isn’t romanticized and a little dull sounding, and that’s no bueno for music lovers

 

[mvvRAZ]

Effortless is the first word I’d use to describe KSE1500, and besides HE1, Susvara and SR1A’s I think it’s objectively the top performer in today’s lineup of iem’s/ hp’s irregardless of tuning preferences. It just sounds real when given the chance. The problem, and you’re totally right - is that most recordings do not do it justice, and it lacks charm, it lacks bite, it lacks body sometimes; it’s not the most musical!

I personally see my Nio as the better all arounder, more enjoyable product, but still think KSE is objectively the best iem yet.

I’ve heard Vitaly’s pair of Noir’s and would take those over the Shure if I could. If you told me to sell off one of Nio or KSE, I would actually keep Nio because it is more pleasurable and versatile, despite not being as tight.

At the end of the day, I’m confident in saying the Shure is objectively best Iem, but falters where it counts, in its enjoyment factor. I know my good friend titienne tried to like em, and just couldn’t warm up to them because the music isn’t romanticized and a little dull sounding, and that’s no bueno for music lovers

You missed my entire point

What I'm saying is, while you might want effortless, that doesn't mean that effortless would work for everyone.

You might want a realistic sound, but I want the absolute and complete opposite of realistic. Different people have different preferences, and slapping a universal "headphones are better" makes half the forum eyeroll so far back they can see their brains lol

 

[gLer]

You missed my entire point

What I'm saying is, while you might want effortless, that doesn't mean that effortless would work for everyone.

You might want a realistic sound, but I want the absolute and complete opposite of realistic. Different people have different preferences, and slapping a universal "headphones are better" makes half the forum eyeroll so far back they can see their brains lol

I think both you and @dleblanc343 are talking about the same thing, just from different perspectives. He's saying (correct me if I'm wrong) that the Shures are 'better' technically, and you're saying (correct me if I'm wrong) that 'technicalities' are only better if your criteria for 'better' is technicalities (which clearly for you they're not).

From my perspective Nio is the 'best' IEM I've heard because they do it for me, make me enjoy my music more than any other IEM or headphone I've heard. Are they technically better than the U12t, U18t or the 'top dog' IEMs? Nope, but I'd take them over a technically superior IEM because I enjoy their sound more.

 

[mvvRAZ]

I think both you and @dleblanc343 are talking about the same thing, just from different perspectives. He's saying (correct me if I'm wrong) that the Shures are 'better' technically, and you're saying (correct me if I'm wrong) that 'technicalities' are only better if your criteria for 'better' is technicalities (which clearly for you they're not).

From my perspective Nio is the 'best' IEM I've heard because they do it for me, make me enjoy my music more than any other IEM or headphone I've heard. Are they technically better than the U12t, U18t or the 'top dog' IEMs? Nope, but I'd take them over a technically superior IEM because I enjoy their sound more.

Well realistically I think you can have both something that's insanely technical, and still has the engagement of a pleasant to listen to IEM. The A18s is an excellent example of that, so is the MMR Thummim, VE Elysium etc etc. I only really enjoy IEMs in the long term if they're technical enough, but resolution isn't the only "technicality" that plays a role

 

[gLer]

Well realistically I think you can have both something that's insanely technical, and still has the engagement of a pleasant to listen to IEM. The A18s is an excellent example of that, so is the MMR Thummim, VE Elysium etc etc. I only really enjoy IEMs in the long term if they're technical enough, but resolution isn't the only "technicality" that plays a role

Oh I totally agree. I personally think once you're at Nio level you're already at an extremely high technical proficiency, even though there's still 'more' to be had.

At that point it comes down to tuning and personal preference (which are interchangeable terms really, because we generally tend to favour stuff that's tuned a certain way).

Some prefer (and indeed seek out) what others would consider 'safe' or 'boring' while some (like you it seems) want crazy, out-there sound that's different to everything else. Both are perfectly legitimate.

Preferences, use case, music taste, source synergy - they all play a role. The IEM/headphone is just part (albeit the biggest part) of the equation.

 

[Vitaly2017]

Effortless is the first word I’d use to describe KSE1500, and besides HE1, Susvara and SR1A’s I think it’s objectively the top performer in today’s lineup of iem’s/ hp’s irregardless of tuning preferences. It just sounds real when given the chance. The problem, and you’re totally right - is that most recordings do not do it justice, and it lacks charm, it lacks bite, it lacks body sometimes; it’s not the most musical!

I personally see my Nio as the better all arounder, more enjoyable product, but still think KSE is objectively the best iem yet.

I’ve heard Vitaly’s pair of Noir’s and would take those over the Shure if I could. If you told me to sell off one of Nio or KSE, I would actually keep Nio because it is more pleasurable and versatile, despite not being as tight.

At the end of the day, I’m confident in saying the Shure is objectively the best Iem, but falters where it counts, in its enjoyment factor. I know my good friend titienne tried to like em, and just couldn’t warm up to them because the music isn’t romanticized and a little dull sounding, and that’s no bueno for music lovers

I am very happy to read that you did like my Noir and I can tell they did mark a history in your memory!
As I also enjoyed your kse1500! Found them so fast agile easy to produce the sound waves! I did feel the Noir was a more fun iem and the DD was something I was missing.
I found Noir to be as good and as high technical monster as the kse1500 just in a different way!

As we all said it! Its a question of preference amd for me my Noir for now rings that bell and check all boxes!


As for fatiguing bass as some folks say I think its adjustable via dap cable and ear tips!