[ericr]

I bought an U12, but now I could upgrade to an U18.
U12's for modern music sounds good, but vocal, classical and instrumental music Layla is much more natural, more spacious, more open, more natural.

My question is whether the U18 is better suited to the music I have listed?
What is the sound of the U18 compared to Layla?

Thank you for your answers!

You weren't asking me, but you have my curiosity up!

Which ADEL/Apex module(s) came with your A12? Also, what cable are you using?

TBH, I am fairly surprised by your characterization of the A12. The very things you speak of (vocal, classical and instrumental music sounding natural, and spacious and open) are what I appreciate most about the A12.

I try to regularly take in live music (the less amplified the better) and I find the A12 remarkably capable of matching the timbre, tone and natural sense of guitar, piano, stand up bass, cymbals, etc. of the live performances. While the ADEL & Apex are known for adding spaciousness and a good sense of venue.

If you had said the A12 was too warm or too slow for electronic music I wouldn't have bothered to comment.

FWIW, the A12 required more brain burn-in for me than most other headphones I've owned or tried.

Per what I hear it seems you should be getting more satisfaction from your A12. It half makes me wonder if something is wrong with your A12.

In addition to the A12, I have both the A18 and Fourte. If there is an instrument, or maybe a track that you find less than ideal on the A12, I could compare against the other two for you.

Unfortunately I've never had the opportunity to hear the Layla.

 

[Tulku1967]

You weren't asking me, but you have my curiosity up!

Which ADEL/Apex module(s) came with your A12? Also, what cable are you using?

TBH, I am fairly surprised by your characterization of the A12. The very things you speak of (vocal, classical and instrumental music sounding natural, and spacious and open) are what I appreciate most about the A12.

I try to regularly take in live music (the less amplified the better) and I find the A12 remarkably capable of matching the timbre, tone and natural sense of guitar, piano, stand up bass, cymbals, etc. of the live performances. While the ADEL & Apex are known for adding spaciousness and a good sense of venue.

If you had said the A12 was too warm or too slow for electronic music I wouldn't have bothered to comment.

FWIW, the A12 required more brain burn-in for me than most other headphones I've owned or tried.

Per what I hear it seems you should be getting more satisfaction from your A12. It half makes me wonder if something is wrong with your A12.

In addition to the A12, I have both the A18 and Fourte. If there is an instrument, or maybe a track that you find less than ideal on the A12, I could compare against the other two for you.

Unfortunately I've never had the opportunity to hear the Layla.

U12 is a very good headset but headset. Layla is like a headphone.
One of the advantages of freqphase is the high degree of layers.
Not the width of the soundstage grows, but the depth will be greater.
It's better to hear who is playing forward and back.

The ferqphase was covered by Jerry with a very complicated crossower system:

Low: 0-100 ohm adjustable potentiometer
Mid: 2nd low pass filter (1 in 150uH inductor in series and 6.8 uF cap in parallel)
High: 4th high pass filter (10uF and 6.8 uF cap in series, 3x150uH and 100uH in parallel)

That's why high tones have a kind of airiness that I have not heard so far with any other headset.

The construction quality of JH audio products is catastrophic. The first Angie nozzle broke through the first day and the middle armature cable was torn.

Layla I just self made reshell because I had problems with my housing, and then I saw that the left side was the difference crossowers then the right side (on left side there was another kind of 150 uH inductor with 7,5ohm resistance, the righ side 150 uH inductor with 14ohm, and in 4th high pass filter, the value of the cap was other value, instead of 10uF instead of 6.8uF.


U12 does not have such layering.
There are also 2 Sonion 3800 on low, but not so suppressed, so there is a midbass lift that can result in a veil for many.
I have added a special OCC copper cable (of course with balanced output) that I hurt an adjustable impedance adapter (adjustable from 0 to 38 ohms). 15 ohms can be heard by the disappearance of the midbass lift and the veil disappears. However, the high armatures (I think 4 pieces of FK twfk maybe) are not so much tuned since they all made up a capacitor, which is a 6dB / octave filter (1th high pass filter).

Because of this, they are little sharp to me in the highs, they do not have the kind of fineness that characterizes Layla.

No, that's pretty much ... I'm sorry about the English

 

[haiku]

That's why high tones have a kind of airiness that I have not heard so far with any other headset.

Thumbs up. Matche my experience with the Layla II 100%. The quality of the treble is outstanding. That´s one of the reasons why I mostly grab the Laylas for listening, even though I also own the KSE1500.

 

[Saraband]

Following up on Tulku1967's question, is the U18 a good allrounder, and would it also suit modern genres such as alt-rock/shoegaze/grunge, 80s/90s hip-hop, and EDM? I'm all over the place.

 

[twister6]

Following up on Tulku1967's question, is the U18 a good allrounder, and would it also suit modern genres such as alt-rock/shoegaze/grunge, 80s/90s hip-hop, and EDM? I'm all over the place.

In my opinion it is a great all-rounder, and you have flexibility to switch between M15 and M20 modules to fine-tune your sound.

 

[Eric Smith]

Just incase anyone was wondering, the Effect Audio Ares II cable is a wonderful match for the Tia Forte. They make a really awesome cable.

 

[nogi replicant]

thanks for your detailed answer. Very interesting comparaison !

but, i wonder: can you also tell us how the fourté and the U18 compare, and why you first bought the fourte instead of the U18 if, as you said "SP1000 with the U18.... sound truly exceptional " ?


For me, as you may have read already, I find my SP1000 SS sound not "full" enough to my taste (with my HE-X and my Roxane V1), and I wonder if I should not have waited for the Cu version. So... to warm-up a little my SP1000 SS sound signature, which TOL IEM will you recommend ? (U18, Fourté, Zeus XRA, Shure KSE1500, LCD-i4....???)

thanks in advance

Yeah no problem I will let you know after I have done some more testing with the SP1000. Will do some comparisons between the U18 and Fourte also. From my recollection of briefly switching back and fourth between the two i felt the U18 had a wider stage, potentially less resolution, and less bass. I am not sure how many hours each iem had on them, but I know the Fourte was far less. The bass on the U18 is great, but the bass on the Fourte you can feel, it is visceral. I was listening to a 24/96 flac track called Silent Sound Spread Spectrum by A guy called Gerald last night. This is an electronic track that goes for about 50 minutes and has some of the most incredible sub bass throughout. With the Fourte I can feel the deep movement of the sub bass and it is a very high quality textured rumble - it's low. I have not felt any other phone go this deep and to this quality.

So the reason I bought the Tia Fourte first is because it has a dynamic driver for bass. I have always liked Dynamic drivers for bass, ie800, Dita Truth's, K3003, but the bass on the Fourte is in a completely different league imo to those dynamic's I have previously owned. The other reason for getting the Fourte first is that the U18 is more similar to my Zeus XRA, whereas the fourte is not.

 

[nogi replicant]

Just incase anyone was wondering, the Effect Audio Ares II cable is a wonderful match for the Tia Forte. They make a really awesome cable.

That's cool. I have not liked my no5 cable with the Fourte. Stage is wide but vocals are recessed and resolution and note weight decreased - compared to stock cable it is less engaging. One cable that has caught my eye for the Fourte is the Leonidis + Ares II bespoke. That could be pretty cool.

 

[llBrInGeRll]

Yeah no problem I will let you know after I have done some more testing with the SP1000. Will do some comparisons between the U18 and Fourte also. From my recollection of briefly switching back and fourth between the two i felt the U18 had a wider stage, potentially less resolution, and less bass. I am not sure how many hours each iem had on them, but I know the Fourte was far less. The bass on the U18 is great, but the bass on the Fourte you can feel, it is visceral. I was listening to a 24/96 flac track called Silent Sound Spread Spectrum by A guy called Gerald last night. This is an electronic track that goes for about 50 minutes and has some of the most incredible sub bass throughout. With the Fourte I can feel the deep movement of the sub bass and it is a very high quality textured rumble - it's low. I have not felt any other phone go this deep and to this quality.

So the reason I bought the Tia Fourte first is because it has a dynamic driver for bass. I have always liked Dynamic drivers for bass, ie800, Dita Truth's, K3003, but the bass on the Fourte is in a completely different league imo to those dynamic's I have previously owned. The other reason for getting the Fourte first is that the U18 is more similar to my Zeus XRA, whereas the fourte is not.

May I know what cable was used for this fourte impression

 

[twister6]

Yeah no problem I will let you know after I have done some more testing with the SP1000. Will do some comparisons between the U18 and Fourte also. From my recollection of briefly switching back and fourth between the two i felt the U18 had a wider stage, potentially less resolution, and less bass. I am not sure how many hours each iem had on them, but I know the Fourte was far less. The bass on the U18 is great, but the bass on the Fourte you can feel, it is visceral. I was listening to a 24/96 flac track called Silent Sound Spread Spectrum by A guy called Gerald last night. This is an electronic track that goes for about 50 minutes and has some of the most incredible sub bass throughout. With the Fourte I can feel the deep movement of the sub bass and it is a very high quality textured rumble - it's low. I have not felt any other phone go this deep and to this quality.

So the reason I bought the Tia Fourte first is because it has a dynamic driver for bass. I have always liked Dynamic drivers for bass, ie800, Dita Truth's, K3003, but the bass on the Fourte is in a completely different league imo to those dynamic's I have previously owned. The other reason for getting the Fourte first is that the U18 is more similar to my Zeus XRA, whereas the fourte is not.

Did you compare Fourte vs U18 with M15 or M20 module? So far, all my brief comparisons and FR measurement were with M20 module and U18 got more sub-/mid-bass quantity in comparison to Fourte (not just what i hear, but also what i'm measuring). I need to switch to M15, since it reduces bass, and will compare against Fourte later tonight. Perhaps with M15 it's closer. Plus, cable and eartips could also contribute to variations. Fourte bass is unmistakenly analog/textured (typical DD characteristics), while U18 is faster and more articulate/precise.

Btw, testing now @EffectAudio Lionheart cables, both versions with Rhodium connector and Psquare (Palladium-Platinum) connector, and U18 w/M20 and Lionheart w/Psquare hits the sweet spot, right smack in the middle! I'm still dumbfounded and can't explain how in a world you can hear such difference using the same IEM, the same source, the same cable, and only a different 3.5mm connector (I can't measure the difference or smell the difference lol!!!), but yet sound is wider and more resolving. Going from M15 to M20 was a compromise for me since I wanted more bass and smoother top end, but ended up with a touch narrower soundstage and a bit smoother treble. Switching to Lionheart w/Psquare expands the soundstage and gives more sparkle/resolution in upper mids. It's like you are micro fine-tuning the sound.

For those who are attending CanJam London this weekend, just take a listen yourself. I'm just sharing what I'm hearing, one data point. Curious what others think.

 

[nogi replicant]

Did you compare Fourte vs U18 with M15 or M20 module? So far, all my brief comparisons and FR measurement were with M20 module and U18 got more sub-/mid-bass quantity in comparison to Fourte (not just what i hear, but also what i'm measuring). I need to switch to M15, since it reduces bass, and will compare against Fourte later tonight. Perhaps with M15 it's closer. Plus, cable and eartips could also contribute to variations. Fourte bass is unmistakenly analog/textured (typical DD characteristics), while U18 is faster and more articulate/precise.

Btw, testing now @EffectAudio Lionheart cables, both versions with Rhodium connector and Psquare (Palladium-Platinum) connector, and U18 w/M20 and Lionheart w/Psquare hits the sweet spot, right smack in the middle! I'm still dumbfounded and can't explain how in a world you can hear such difference using the same IEM, the same source, the same cable, and only a different 3.5mm connector (I can't measure the difference or smell the difference lol!!!), but yet sound is wider and more resolving. Going from M15 to M20 was a compromise for me since I wanted more bass and smoother top end, but ended up with a touch narrower soundstage and a bit smoother treble. Switching to Lionheart w/Psquare expands the soundstage and gives more sparkle/resolution in upper mids. It's like you are micro fine-tuning the sound.

For those who are attending CanJam London this weekend, just take a listen yourself. I'm just sharing what I'm hearing, one data point. Curious what others think.

When I did my brief comparison the U18 had m15 modules in, both had stock cable on. I am using spinfit's which to me really maximise the texture of the bass. I will do some more testing on Friday when I am back at the audio store and will test some different DAP's also.

The Lionheart does look interesting for sure. Can you test the Lionheart on the Fourte and let me know how it goes please. I do not see the Psquare connector as an option on the Lionheart page - https://www.effectaudio.com/upgrade-cables/iem-cables/iem-heritage-series/lionheart-preorder.html. Am I missing something?

 

[nogi replicant]

May I know what cable was used for this fourte impression

Stock cables on both. I think the stock cable is a damn good cable. But in saying that I am always tempted by upgrade cables.

 

[twister6]

When I did my brief comparison the U18 had m15 modules in, both had stock cable on. I am using spinfit's which to me really maximise the texture of the bass. I will do some more testing on Friday when I am back at the audio store and will test some different DAP's also.

The Lionheart does look interesting for sure. Can you test the Lionheart on the Fourte and let me know how it goes please. I do not see the Psquare connector as an option on the Lionheart page - https://www.effectaudio.com/upgrade-cables/iem-cables/iem-heritage-series/lionheart-preorder.html. Am I missing something?

Psquare is not listed because there is a waiting list for that connector (took me a few months just to get a review sample). But I have been told it's an additional $50 option (well worth it in my opinion). With stock cables and U18/M15 vs Fourte, the bass quantity indeed gets closer, and upper mids/treble still vary (smoother, natural U18 vs brighter, more revealing Fourte). To my ears Lionheart with Fourte is not a good pair up, it benefits the bass but not the treble which becomes splashy and a bit harsh. I'm switching between different cables, and keep coming back to the stock 64audio cable for Fourte as the best pair up synergy (again, for my ears based on my sound preference).

 

[flipper203]

which tips do you recomend for U18 model ? For the moment I use the comply...

 

[twister6]

which tips do you recomend for U18 model ? For the moment I use the comply...

Whatever works for your ears, this is purely dependent on your ear anatomy and preference of different eartip material... You can use Comply foamies, or the hybrid Symbio tips (those are becoming very popular lately), or any silicone tips from other iems, as long as the bore opening of the tip core is not bigger than nozzle diameter (you don't want it to slide out). I'm using tips from Oriveti iems, whatever works