[SlimCharles]

560s is coming tomorrow.

Got 'em... they are definetely interesting.

Do they outresolve the competition? Or at least those I've tried (AD700x, DT990, Fidelio, He400i, K701)? No, just the AKG but I think that one is a grainy mess. It doesn't have the instrument separation and ludicrous soundstage and imaging of AD700x... but the AT doesn't have bass and sounds sterile. Doesn't punch and separate like the Beyer... but spiky treble. Things get more complicated with Fidelio and He400i, as they are similiar to the 560s... but the Senn doesn't have boomy bass and grainy treble like the Phillips (fun, but muddy) and maybe not such prominent veil as the entry level Hifiman cans.

These are impressions made from memory, I no longer own those headphones. But I'm pretty sure the hype behind the Senn is because it does everything right. It pleases everyone. It doesn't outshine, and I would like to try the good beyers (Tygr, DT880), but it might just be better in general. And here we get to stuff that is not sound: it fits like a glove in my head, exceptional comfort and stability. It's very easy to drive so you can use it with the Btunes and there you go, virtually endgame bt headphone.

It might seem I'm gonna keep it... but problem is I have a 598sr round here. Same pads: yeah, the 560s is more capable, that's clear. But A/B testing both just show how good the 598/99 are. If you want a warm headphone without being a muddy fest like the Meze 99, these are fantastic. Does the 560s deserves the extra 30-40 euros/dollars/whatevers? Yes it does... problem is I got the 598 (heavely) used for 40 euros. Decisions decisions...

Finally I wanna vindicate the 500 series. I used a 206 for ages until couple years ago. I was very happy so I decided to change it for another Senn... the 400s. I was extremely disappointed and subsequently mad at the brand. Time passed, several cans too, and the 500 series (3 of 4 I've tried have been very recently) has redeemed Sennheiser for me. I also own a 598cs which pads I needed to peel off... insane success, it's now the best headphone I've tried behind the Sundara. It doesn't have bass, but treble is tamed and it separates ridicously good. Crazy detailed mid monster. And so, every 500 series I've tried is either surprisingly good or fantastic. No bad apples.

 

[goody]

My little take on the HD560S VS HD599SE

 

[SlimCharles]

Great video. About genres, yep, 599 will suit better some. Enjoyment is closer between both with stuff like edm. Although the resolution difference is so high, I personally prefer the 560s regardless.

The main issue with the 599 is the price. It wont go down, because then you would have to decrease the price of the 559. And if you do that, entry level audiophile Senns are too close to all the other junk (comparatively in terms of sound) they sell.

 

[D00M]

Sennheiser HD 560s vs Hifiman Deva: I have owned Hifiman Deva for 2 years. I just got HD 560s for gaming. I want to share my experience.

Detail & Resolution: Biggest difference I find between these 2 headphones is that Deva is more detailed. I can hear all various instruments; and instruments are well separated. With music that is extremely busy, Deva easily beats 560s.

Here is an example. World Saxophone Quartet's The Holy Men. This is not the type of music I listen to normally. Just testing. At 20 sec mark, there are multiple musical instruments playing and overlapping each other. On Deva, I can hear each instrument. I can focus on 1 instrument and clearly identify its spatial location. Then I can focus on another instrument. On 560s, I can kind of hear each instruments, but the separation is lacking. And the soundstage sounds really confusing.



Music & Vocals: On the other hand, HD 560s sounds smoother and more musical. Deva sounds a bit clinical in comparison. 560s has more forward vocals than Deva. Deva's vocals is a tad recessed; and this difference is quite apparent in comparison to HD560s. So for vocals, guitar solos, and solo instruments, HD 560s sound is more enjoyable. This is a surprise. Because many reviewers talk about HD 560s as analytical and reference sounding. I was pleasantly surprised how much I enjoyed HD 560s.

Soundstage: I'm still trying to assess this. Sometimes Deva sounds wider, especially with busy music like the YouTube link above. Other times 560s sound wider and more 3-dimensional. It's possible they are similar and might be toss up.

Gaming: With Deva's detail, I would think it is good for gaming. But it is not. Deva directionality is not good. And its volume has wider range. If I set the max sound to gun shot, it is hard to hear low sounds (like footsteps or gun reload).

I have being using old 15-year-old Audio Technica ATH-A700 for gaming. It is extremely v-shaped. I don't like it for music. Vocals sound thin, veiled, and recessed. But it does a good job on gaming.

I bought HD 560s based on this YouTube video: . This ex-pro gamer highly recommend it. Thus far, it is not like night vs day improvement as I expected.

ATH-A700: I can hear the left/right well. Footsteps are really loud; too extreme; thud, thud, thud. Footsteps are so loud that I often think enemy is next to me, whereas they are further away. So I'm a bit confused by the distance.

HD 560s is more realistic in that footsteps can be heard but not overwhelming. But directionality wise (just left vs right), it doesn't do as good of job as ATH-A700.

So I'm still trying to assess and compare between HD 560s and ATH-A700, on directionality (front/rear, top/bottom) and distance. The issue with gaming is that I don't know how to do A/B comparison. I play 15 minutes with headphone A and 15 minutes with headphone B. But situation is different so hard to compare directly.

Sensitivity/Loudness: HD 560s is super easy to drive. Deva wired is harder. I need to crank my volume to > 50% on my PC to get reasonable volume.

Fatigue: I get tired listening music on HD 560s after an hour. I don't have this issue with Deva. Actually, I had extremely negative experience with Beyerdynamic DT 770 PRO 80 ohm. I got really bad headache and ear ache with DT 700 Pro. I don't know the reason.

I know some claim both HD 560s and Deva have treble peaks. And that can cause fatigue. But I don't find the trebles harsh at all, on either of these headphones. Maybe it is there that I don't realize it. My 50-year old ears lost some sensitivity in high frequency range.

 

[sajunky]

The issue with gaming is that I don't know how to do A/B comparison. I play 15 minutes with headphone A and 15 minutes with headphone B. But situation is different so hard to compare directly.

It is a right way to test equipment. A/B tests failed many times, as our brain need longer time to adopt to changes.

What amp and DAC models do you own?
A fatigue can be factor of a volume level. It is very important to match ear pressure. 560s require lower volume level, you tend to listen louder, so vocals and solo instruments are brought forward.

 

[SchwizzelKick66]

My little take on the HD560S VS HD599SE

If the 560s had similar build to the 598/599 with the leatherette headband, it would be borderline perfect IMO.

 

[volly]

Sennheiser HD 560s vs Hifiman Deva: I have owned Hifiman Deva for 2 years. I just got HD 560s for gaming. I want to share my experience.

Detail & Resolution: Biggest difference I find between these 2 headphones is that Deva is more detailed. I can hear all various instruments; and instruments are well separated. With music that is extremely busy, Deva easily beats 560s.

Here is an example. World Saxophone Quartet's The Holy Men. This is not the type of music I listen to normally. Just testing. At 20 sec mark, there are multiple musical instruments playing and overlapping each other. On Deva, I can hear each instrument. I can focus on 1 instrument and clearly identify its spatial location. Then I can focus on another instrument. On 560s, I can kind of hear each instruments, but the separation is lacking. And the soundstage sounds really confusing.



Music & Vocals: On the other hand, HD 560s sounds smoother and more musical. Deva sounds a bit clinical in comparison. 560s has more forward vocals than Deva. Deva's vocals is a tad recessed; and this difference is quite apparent in comparison to HD560s. So for vocals, guitar solos, and solo instruments, HD 560s sound is more enjoyable. This is a surprise. Because many reviewers talk about HD 560s as analytical and reference sounding. I was pleasantly surprised how much I enjoyed HD 560s.

Soundstage: I'm still trying to assess this. Sometimes Deva sounds wider, especially with busy music like the YouTube link above. Other times 560s sound wider and more 3-dimensional. It's possible they are similar and might be toss up.

Gaming: With Deva's detail, I would think it is good for gaming. But it is not. Deva directionality is not good. And its volume has wider range. If I set the max sound to gun shot, it is hard to hear low sounds (like footsteps or gun reload).

I have being using old 15-year-old Audio Technica ATH-A700 for gaming. It is extremely v-shaped. I don't like it for music. Vocals sound thin, veiled, and recessed. But it does a good job on gaming.

I bought HD 560s based on this YouTube video: . This ex-pro gamer highly recommend it. Thus far, it is not like night vs day improvement as I expected.

ATH-A700: I can hear the left/right well. Footsteps are really loud; too extreme; thud, thud, thud. Footsteps are so loud that I often think enemy is next to me, whereas they are further away. So I'm a bit confused by the distance.

HD 560s is more realistic in that footsteps can be heard but not overwhelming. But directionality wise (just left vs right), it doesn't do as good of job as ATH-A700.

So I'm still trying to assess and compare between HD 560s and ATH-A700, on directionality (front/rear, top/bottom) and distance. The issue with gaming is that I don't know how to do A/B comparison. I play 15 minutes with headphone A and 15 minutes with headphone B. But situation is different so hard to compare directly.

Sensitivity/Loudness: HD 560s is super easy to drive. Deva wired is harder. I need to crank my volume to > 50% on my PC to get reasonable volume.

Fatigue: I get tired listening music on HD 560s after an hour. I don't have this issue with Deva. Actually, I had extremely negative experience with Beyerdynamic DT 770 PRO 80 ohm. I got really bad headache and ear ache with DT 700 Pro. I don't know the reason.

I know some claim both HD 560s and Deva have treble peaks. And that can cause fatigue. But I don't find the trebles harsh at all, on either of these headphones. Maybe it is there that I don't realize it. My 50-year old ears lost some sensitivity in high frequency range.

I'm a fan of Fresh, he's alright in my books! He's definitely just dipped his toes in to this crazy hobby but his perspective is from a competitive gaming mindset! The general rule is that you shouldn't just go off what others do and say in and around this hobby, experimentation is the only way to learn about a 'thing' in this hobby! All this is subjective, there is no 'definite', there's just what we as a community pass on to each other. Whether it's positive or negative, it's what one can find out the truth for themselves.

I actually started out with the AD700's back in the day....was super cool and introduced in to the hobby! Super sweet highs but with very little bass impact, it definitely brightened up my music library back then! I use to play CS source back then too and the AD700 imaged like a boss! Kinda....kinda miss it...might need to add another Audiotechnica headphone back in my life!

IMHO, the 560s are just damn good, for it's price and for the sound it offers! I dare say it's betters my HD600/650 is quite a few categories but the older blokes are just smoother and a tad richer. I've compared the 560s to my Edition X and thought it done a bang-up job, really Sennheiser finally got something special after so many years! I ended up gifting the 560s to my bro/In-law for his birthday....got a message back through the wife and he told her that he absolutely loves them! Before that I gifted him my Modi/Vali2 stack, so now he's got a great setup!

As @SchwizzelKick66 stated...if the build was just a touch classier then they'd be perfect for the price!

Loved the write up mate, hope to hear more for you!

 

[D00M]

Follow-up on my previous post. HD 560s is a keeper. My original reason to buy HD 560s was for gaming. I know enough about what I like and dislike. So I also want to have a good to great headphone for media (music, movies, tv) and not just a consumer-grade "gaming headphone".

• For music, I will probably switch back and forth between Hifiman Deva and 560s, depending on the music.
• For movies/tv, DEVA will be my go-to headphone, for the clarity, detail, and soundstage.
• For gaming, 560s rocks. More below.

Fatigue: I think there are couple reasons. One is that I was listening to 560s too loud. I don't realize it listening to music. I had to take the earphone off and listen to the volume from several inches away. I only need 15-20% volume on my PC for 560s to match similar volume on DEVA. Second is likely the high treble. After I got fatigued, I do notice some songs come across as shouty.

Summary (TLDR)
Some reviewers say HD560s is excellent for FPS gaming; while other reviewers say it is crap.

I think I understand why. In directionality, I also had this mixed experience. At 1st level, HD560s is not as immediate in differentiating just left vs right. But going deeper, to tell angle (such as left-front vs left, or right-front vs right), HD560s does differentiate that. Then in terms of soundstage, I just assumed larger soundstage is better to determine distance in games. Once I heard 560s sound stage, which is toward narrow side, I thought this cannot be good for gaming. But actually comparing my couple headphones, there is no correlation between soundstage and gaming distances.

I have being playing Valorant 80% in past week. Games are fast, a lot of enemy engagement, and I get a lot of data points. Then 10% PUBG and 10% Apex Legends.

Directionality:
I don't have expertise here. Here are my thoughts on some simple cases:

1. Being able to tell left vs right. It's clear to me how headphones do this. Just need to have 100% of sound (or just care about dominant sound) on 1 side. This should be easy.
2. Next step beyond just left vs right, being able to tell it is coming in from angle. Let's say sound source is toward right side, to pin point if direction is right-front (1 vs 2 vs 3 o'clock), dominant sound needs to be on the right channel, but information from left channel is also critical. So (1) vs (2) are slightly opposing information. Being good at (2) will reduce the effect of (1).
3. Lastly, being able to differentiate front half vs rear half, and above vs below. I'm not sure how headphones can do this; and how well they can do it; and what attributes or specification enable this.

On 1st point, right off the bat, I can tell that ATH-A700 has better left vs right directionality. ATH-A700 is very extreme. This left-right difference is much stronger that HD 560s. So just play couple games, my thoughts were HD 560s fail as FPS gaming headphone compared to ATH-A700. I suspect many gamers that disliked HD 560s might in the same situation.

On 2nd point, after I recognize left vs right, then next step is to pin-point sound source angle. Luckily I didn't give up and continue to use the HD 560s. It actually took me around close to 2 weeks on HD 560s to realize this; and 1 week after my previous post. Additional information is there; it is subtle, and not as apparent as 1st point. I can tell sound source that is from right side at an angle, instead of just right. In comparison, ATH-A700 directionality ends at left vs right; there is no sense of angle.

On 3rd point, I don't think 560s (or any headphone) can tell if sound source is right-front vs right-rear, or above or below. Because the electronic signal coming from source to headphone is only left vs right channel, signal itself does not have additional info on front/rear or above/below. However, our minds combine other information (either visual, my movement and travel history, or I turn my body top hear additional sound) to deduce sound source. Because of 2nd point, HD 560s definitely give me some additional information for my brain to process and deduce possible direction of sound source.

Distance:
I read that wide soundstage allow gamers to tell distance better, or make the game more realistic. That was what I thought so too. I don't know how soundstage feel is produced. Is it just volume difference (closer is louder, farther is quieter)? Or there are some other factor that create the soundstage? Just based on my 560s and ATH-A700, music soundstage does not translate to gaming distance or realism.

ATH-A700 sound profile is quite v-shaped, which create soundstage effect for music. ATH-A700 soundstage is wider than HD 560s. When gaming, it is hard to recognize distance on ATH-A700. I don't know if it is due to soundstage, volume compression, or just lack of detail. Gunshot should be loud, and foot steps should be low to medium. Both gun fire and footsteps sound very loud on this headphone. With small difference in volume, ATH-A700 has hard time separate louder/closer vs softer/further sounds. I often get confused on the foot steps being so loud, thinking enemy is right around the corner when he is actually further away.

HD 560s soundstage for music toward narrow side. But when gaming, the sound level is realistic, to differentiate loud gunshots vs medium gunshots vs medium footsteps vs quiet footsteps. From that, I can determine the distance better. Even with smaller soundstage for music, HD 560s is better for gaming distance.

Immersive Experience:
On addition point here on Hifiman Deva. It has better sound stage than HD 560s or ATH-A700. It is not a good FPS gaming headphone because it is hard to hear footsteps. However, Deva has very good immersive experience. With Deva, when there were unexpected sounds in movies or game (thunder, crash, etc), I got surprised thinking the sound occurred in real life. This has happened to me at least 5-10 times. For instance, I play PUBG, all of a sudden there is thunder, I take the headphone off thinking there was thunder in real life. In movies, when there was loud background sound (without visual cues), I thought it was from real life. After a few times, I kept telling myself it was from the headphone and not real life. But it was so realistic that I paused to check on my family and pet that everything is ok.

 

[ericpalonen]

Follow-up on my previous post. HD 560s is a keeper. My original reason to buy HD 560s was for gaming. I know enough about what I like and dislike. So I also want to have a good to great headphone for media (music, movies, tv) and not just a consumer-grade "gaming headphone".

• For music, I will probably switch back and forth between Hifiman Deva and 560s, depending on the music.
• For movies/tv, DEVA will be my go-to headphone, for the clarity, detail, and soundstage.
• For gaming, 560s rocks. More below.

Fatigue: I think there are couple reasons. One is that I was listening to 560s too loud. I don't realize it listening to music. I had to take the earphone off and listen to the volume from several inches away. I only need 15-20% volume on my PC for 560s to match similar volume on DEVA. Second is likely the high treble. After I got fatigued, I do notice some songs come across as shouty.

Summary (TLDR)
Some reviewers say HD560s is excellent for FPS gaming; while other reviewers say it is crap.

I think I understand why. In directionality, I also had this mixed experience. At 1st level, HD560s is not as immediate in differentiating just left vs right. But going deeper, to tell angle (such as left-front vs left, or right-front vs right), HD560s does differentiate that. Then in terms of soundstage, I just assumed larger soundstage is better to determine distance in games. Once I heard 560s sound stage, which is toward narrow side, I thought this cannot be good for gaming. But actually comparing my couple headphones, there is no correlation between soundstage and gaming distances.

I have being playing Valorant 80% in past week. Games are fast, a lot of enemy engagement, and I get a lot of data points. Then 10% PUBG and 10% Apex Legends.

Directionality:
I don't have expertise here. Here are my thoughts on some simple cases:

1. Being able to tell left vs right. It's clear to me how headphones do this. Just need to have 100% of sound (or just care about dominant sound) on 1 side. This should be easy.
2. Next step beyond just left vs right, being able to tell it is coming in from angle. Let's say sound source is toward right side, to pin point if direction is right-front (1 vs 2 vs 3 o'clock), dominant sound needs to be on the right channel, but information from left channel is also critical. So (1) vs (2) are slightly opposing information. Being good at (2) will reduce the effect of (1).
3. Lastly, being able to differentiate front half vs rear half, and above vs below. I'm not sure how headphones can do this; and how well they can do it; and what attributes or specification enable this.

On 1st point, right off the bat, I can tell that ATH-A700 has better left vs right directionality. ATH-A700 is very extreme. This left-right difference is much stronger that HD 560s. So just play couple games, my thoughts were HD 560s fail as FPS gaming headphone compared to ATH-A700. I suspect many gamers that disliked HD 560s might in the same situation.

On 2nd point, after I recognize left vs right, then next step is to pin-point sound source angle. Luckily I didn't give up and continue to use the HD 560s. It actually took me around close to 2 weeks on HD 560s to realize this; and 1 week after my previous post. Additional information is there; it is subtle, and not as apparent as 1st point. I can tell sound source that is from right side at an angle, instead of just right. In comparison, ATH-A700 directionality ends at left vs right; there is no sense of angle.

On 3rd point, I don't think 560s (or any headphone) can tell if sound source is right-front vs right-rear, or above or below. Because the electronic signal coming from source to headphone is only left vs right channel, signal itself does not have additional info on front/rear or above/below. However, our minds combine other information (either visual, my movement and travel history, or I turn my body top hear additional sound) to deduce sound source. Because of 2nd point, HD 560s definitely give me some additional information for my brain to process and deduce possible direction of sound source.

Distance:
I read that wide soundstage allow gamers to tell distance better, or make the game more realistic. That was what I thought so too. I don't know how soundstage feel is produced. Is it just volume difference (closer is louder, farther is quieter)? Or there are some other factor that create the soundstage? Just based on my 560s and ATH-A700, music soundstage does not translate to gaming distance or realism.

ATH-A700 sound profile is quite v-shaped, which create soundstage effect for music. ATH-A700 soundstage is wider than HD 560s. When gaming, it is hard to recognize distance on ATH-A700. I don't know if it is due to soundstage, volume compression, or just lack of detail. Gunshot should be loud, and foot steps should be low to medium. Both gun fire and footsteps sound very loud on this headphone. With small difference in volume, ATH-A700 has hard time separate louder/closer vs softer/further sounds. I often get confused on the foot steps being so loud, thinking enemy is right around the corner when he is actually further away.

HD 560s soundstage for music toward narrow side. But when gaming, the sound level is realistic, to differentiate loud gunshots vs medium gunshots vs medium footsteps vs quiet footsteps. From that, I can determine the distance better. Even with smaller soundstage for music, HD 560s is better for gaming distance.

Immersive Experience:
On addition point here on Hifiman Deva. It has better sound stage than HD 560s or ATH-A700. It is not a good FPS gaming headphone because it is hard to hear footsteps. However, Deva has very good immersive experience. With Deva, when there were unexpected sounds in movies or game (thunder, crash, etc), I got surprised thinking the sound occurred in real life. This has happened to me at least 5-10 times. For instance, I play PUBG, all of a sudden there is thunder, I take the headphone off thinking there was thunder in real life. In movies, when there was loud background sound (without visual cues), I thought it was from real life. After a few times, I kept telling myself it was from the headphone and not real life. But it was so realistic that I paused to check on my family and pet that everything is ok.

Thank you for these awesome impressions and application-specific notes! For the other gamers: what does the rest of your signal chain look like?

 

[FlavioWolff]

The 560S is a really good headphone for gaming. Too bad I had to crack my unit open and remove the lock inside, so I could use a regular 3.5mm mic cable. Why not use a standard 3.5mm universal input jack from the start?

 

[ericpalonen]

The 560S is a really good headphone for gaming. Too bad I had to crack my unit open and remove the lock inside, so I could use a regular 3.5mm mic cable. Why not use a standard 3.5mm universal input jack from the start?

Great question. The target audience is here at Head-Fi, whom see a lot of 1/4-inch (6.3mm) connections throughout the day. It's not that the other types are neglected, but for the intended application (home desktop audio connected to amps, DACamps, receivers, etc) it is a common denominator.

 

[FlavioWolff]

Great question. The target audience is here at Head-Fi, whom see a lot of 1/4-inch (6.3mm) connections throughout the day. It's not that the other types are neglected, but for the intended application (home desktop audio connected to amps, DACamps, receivers, etc) it is a common denominator.

Thank you for the response.
I'm talking about the cable input on the headphone itself. I can't see how a 2.5mm is more used by the Head-fi audience than a standard 3.5mm input? By using a 3.5mm input (preferentially without the locking mechanism), we could use a plethora of cables and easily transform it into a headset by using a mic-cable like the V-Moda boom pro.
In my case, I had to open the cup, remove the small piece with the locking mechanism, and then attach a 2.5mm (male) to 3.5mm (female) adaptor (pic attached).

 

[RoninChaos]

Here is my post from one year ago about the earpads. One thing i would add is, imaging and soundstage is better with the grey earpads. Especially with highs. For example if you listen the first 10 seconds of this song:

the highs are more separated to the left and right and also sounds more distant, but for other music sometimes i prefer the black one.

Could someone confirm that there are no o-rings in the earpads that comes with the hd560s?

There are no O rings in mine.

I’m actually curious about the gray pads now. I love the HD 560s but I do find them a tad bright. Do the gray pads take that a bit while improving imaging?

 

[alexeyi]

Thank you for the response.
I'm talking about the cable input on the headphone itself. I can't see how a 2.5mm is more used by the Head-fi audience than a standard 3.5mm input? By using a 3.5mm input (preferentially without the locking mechanism), we could use a plethora of cables and easily transform it into a headset by using a mic-cable like the V-Moda boom pro.
In my case, I had to open the cup, remove the small piece with the locking mechanism, and then attach a 2.5mm (male) to 3.5mm (female) adaptor (pic attached).

Actually from 2.5 it’s easier to go the balanced route to 4.4 and xlr, so for people that want to run balanced, it is the better option.

 

[mvule]

Been a while since I posted here but just had to comment (again!) on how great these headphones are. (Especially for the price)

Been using the HD 800S out of RME Adi for movies, due to THAT soundstage but of course I had the usual frustrations with the bass...not a basshead by any stretch but movies need some impact at times.

So I switched to the HD 560S and all is right with the world (or lower frequencies at least!) Also the mids seem fuller to me, so overall a much more satisfying experience.

Had to turn the volume up to hear dialogue with the other cans and then the loud sections sounded awful.

HD 560S it is for movies, from now on