The New AEON 2: It's The End Of MrSpeakers
Jan 22, 2020 at 12:58 PM Post #841 of 2,052
I found A2C's soundstage is disapoointing as well . No depth- only 2D sound field. And the sound is either at the exact left, center, or right (9-12-3 o'clock) . Nothing at the space between the three points.
In terms of soundstage A2C is just like a cheap regular closed back. Other expensive closed backs (Focal, ZMF, Senn) have semi-open soundstage but A2C is very intimate.

[This post has been edited by Mod]

In headphones (especially if you have big earlobes like I have) it is very important not to touch the inside part of pads with edges of your earlobes. If you touch the pad with the back edge of your ear then soundstage is hugely narrowed. Because the vibrations that your earlobe is getting from the soundwave is suppressed then, and the sound-wave is not so much around it as well then.

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I know the scale of ear is not right but the purpose of it is to show everything right.


Btw. A2C are very good headphones with decent soundstage, and even better imaging/separation of instruments. You can extend every of this aspects by choosing the right amp for them. Tubes do them good.
 

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Jan 22, 2020 at 3:01 PM Post #842 of 2,052
Tubes do them good
Which Tubes you using ? I have the P 20 but it sounds distorted (well more distorted than I expect from Tubes), Thinking of roiling some new tubes into it but I rarely use it these days. I like the tubeness but I only tend to go there with Dynamic drivers, never considered it with plainars ?
 
Jan 22, 2020 at 3:15 PM Post #843 of 2,052
Which Tubes you using ? I have the P 20 but it sounds distorted (well more distorted than I expect from Tubes), Thinking of roiling some new tubes into it but I rarely use it these days. I like the tubeness but I only tend to go there with Dynamic drivers, never considered it with plainars ?

Aune S6 (lineout between 50and60 /100, yes it can make a difference) -> Little Dot mk3 SE with Amperex Bugle Boy 6922/E88CC tubes

Also Little Dot is set to 'low gain' (it has 2 options, x4.5 or x9 gain).
 
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Jan 22, 2020 at 3:54 PM Post #844 of 2,052
When working with pure tube amps (vs hybrids) be sure the output transformer has a LOW impedance output that can handle 16 ohms, that will generally be fine for a 12.5 ohm headphone. However some tube amps only have a high impedance output for dynamic drivers and that may be a poor pairing due to transfer loss. In general, the higher the output impedance of the tube amp (when above 32 ohms) the less power the headphones get...
 
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Jan 22, 2020 at 4:16 PM Post #846 of 2,052
New guy here, and this thread makes me want to bang my head against a wall.. hopefully they get returned and the guy finds a set of headphones he likes. I would strongly suggest he not order online and go to a shop and test units until he finds what he likes. This seemingly didn't need to be so difficult. Hopefully everyone is happy in the end.
 
Jan 22, 2020 at 4:20 PM Post #847 of 2,052
@mrspeakers Little Dot mk3 SE is a hybrid not a pure tube, and Im pretty sure it has quite high impedance from what I remember, but it sounds good with low impedance HPs I plugged with it. All low impedance HPs I tried on it sounded better than from only Aune S6.

Aune has several older models that have very high output Z and as a result can't deliver enough power. Newer models like the X7S are well suited to planars.

I've not heard the LDMk3 myself, glad to hear it sounds good. Pretty sure the LDmk3 is actually an OTL design not a hybrid. When you see power fall as impedance drops that generally indicates the amp swings voltage more than current and is optimized for higher impedance headphones, though it can still work within the limits of high much current it can push. If you look at the Little Dot Mk3 power spec you see power falls with load;

350 mW @ 300/600 ohm
300 mW @ 120 ohm
100 mW @ 32 ohm

My guess will be that this can only put out about 40mW into A2, so it will probably sound great up to clipping, but clipping will be no more than 106dB. That's louder than I would ever play except a symphony crescendo, but I tend to listen at low levels to protect my ears. Just a caveat emptor for those interested in this particular amp. From these numbers the amp is optimized for 300ohm dynamics.

To find good matches in amps here are a few simple tricks:

1) All our headphones range from 12.5-27ohms. Try to find amps that rate power at 32 and/or 16ohms and look for at least 150mW at 16.

2) Be careful with OTL amps, they may work great like the LTA units, or they may just run out of gas at low volumes. Ask the maker how well it will handle low impedance loads.

3) For tubes amps check there's a Low impedance output switch or tap and if so that its 8-32 ohms for max power transfer. A big amp can have higher output impedance and still work fine.

4) For solid state amps try to get <2ohms output impedance. Over 10 ohms = lots of power lost to heat in the amp instead of to sound.
 
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Jan 22, 2020 at 7:49 PM Post #848 of 2,052
I have to agree with others that compared to many closed backs, these have a pretty decent sound stage. Still lacking to a good open back, but not at all compared to most closed backs.

What are the other closed backs in your comparision ?

I compare it with Elegia since they cost exactly the same and they are both similar closed backs.
Which one sounds better is highly subjective. But in my opinion Elegia's soundstage is undoubtedly much larger. Larger in all three dimensions and much better instrument seperation.
My reference open back is Focal Clear. To explain the idea with numbers: If Clear's soundstage is is 100 Elegia achieves 60-70 while A2C achieves 30-35 for me.
 
Jan 22, 2020 at 7:53 PM Post #849 of 2,052
What are the other closed backs in your comparision ?

I compare it with Elegia since they cost exactly the same and they are both similar closed backs.
Which one sounds better is highly subjective. But in my opinion Elegia's soundstage is undoubtedly much larger. Larger in all three dimensions and much better instrument seperation.
My reference open back is Focal Clear. To explain the idea with numbers: If Clear's soundstage is is 100 Elegia achieves 60-70 while A2C achieves 30-35 for me.

Would you draw some comparisons with the A2C and Elegia? It was the other one in my list since I needed close backs for my office. I never hear them, just watched reviews here and there.
 
Jan 22, 2020 at 9:31 PM Post #850 of 2,052
I'm reviewing them right now...I would say they lean more towards neutral than their closed counterparts, but still offer incredible bass, dynamics and sound staging. I love them so far...more to come.

I’ll be following this closely. The Aeon Flow Opens were my Goldilocks headphones were they not for the lack of bass and the tuning filters killed the treble for me. I’ve heard at least on the closed model that the treble is a little more even but curious to see if the AFO2 kept that same warmth I liked from the original and fixed the bass. That too me would be worth more of a price premium.
 
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Jan 22, 2020 at 10:04 PM Post #851 of 2,052
I’ll be following this closely. The Aeon Flow Opens were my Goldilocks headphones were they not for the lack of bass and the tuning filters killed the treble for me. I’ve heard at least on the closed model that the treble is a little more even but curious to see if the AFO2 kept that same warmth I liked from the original and fixed the bass. That too me would be worth more of a price premium.

Definitely NOT a lack of bass here...hits hard and goes deep! I would classify the open as on the warmer side of neutral.
 
Jan 22, 2020 at 10:07 PM Post #852 of 2,052
Definitely NOT a lack of bass here...hits hard and goes deep! I would classify the open as on the warmer side of neutral.

That’s great to hear! I look forward to your full review. I don’t know if more people owned the AFC over the AFO so we definitely need more reviews on the Open as well. I’ve been looking for a Super HD650 and I almost found it with the AFO. It had excellent imaging, the treble could get hot sometimes but didn’t bother me, awesome smooth midrange. It was so close to being perfect for me.
 
Jan 23, 2020 at 9:38 AM Post #853 of 2,052
That’s great to hear! I look forward to your full review. I don’t know if more people owned the AFC over the AFO so we definitely need more reviews on the Open as well. I’ve been looking for a Super HD650 and I almost found it with the AFO. It had excellent imaging, the treble could get hot sometimes but didn’t bother me, awesome smooth midrange. It was so close to being perfect for me.

The closed one sounds quite different from the HD650 to my ears. And although it's definitely not lacking in bass, I still wish there was a bigger slam. I'm talking pre fazor Audeze slam.
 
Jan 23, 2020 at 9:58 AM Post #854 of 2,052
The closed one sounds quite different from the HD650 to my ears. And although it's definitely not lacking in bass, I still wish there was a bigger slam. I'm talking pre fazor Audeze slam.

Yeah the closed sounds anemic and the open sounded okay bass wise but it wasn't that great hence why I'm curious if the AFO2 improved on that regard.
 
Jan 23, 2020 at 10:24 AM Post #855 of 2,052
Yeah the closed sounds anemic and the open sounded okay bass wise but it wasn't that great hence why I'm curious if the AFO2 improved on that regard.
The AFC2 does not sound anemic in bass. I guess the AFO2 doesn't either
 

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