[electropop]

Quote:

Hmm. Would you say that the impact is realistic enough? I know - I'm nit picky. I am just very, very serious about this. If the bass impact is not realistic enough (as well as if the impacts of the other areas of the frequency spectrum) then could it really be considered fidelity? 
 
This begs the question though: are headphones the key to fidelity? Well, from what I've read - no. But of course, my goal is to get as close to the "truth" (fidelity) as I possibly can.
 
I wonder, though, if headphones like the KRK KNS 8400 and other "reference" models exist merely as a tool to identify the music in a lifeless, non-intuitive way, where the music is represented without its "soul" (for lack of a better word). If I were to listen to a device that delivers a sonic reproduction to me without it's soul (whatever this may be) then perhaps my experience of music would actually be not of fidelity, but of an analytical tool that exists for the sake of mixing and mastering. This makes me wonder about the second school of thought referred to in the link I provided earlier in the thread, where the KRK KNS 8400 is not entirely flat, emphasizing frequency bands that are often discovered to be annoying after long-term exposure (at least this is my understanding of that second school of thought in referencing). 
 
I am still concerned about this lack of a flat response that is said to exist in the second school of thought in referencing. But I am not just concerned about this. I am concerned that there may be tweaks to the design that detract from fidelity but aid the producer in doing the mixing. These tweaks may be posited in accordance with a philosophy that it (the headphones) is strictly a reference tool - not a tool to truthfully deliver music. Hence, one generally makes their mixing decisions final with the use of reference monitors. 
 

Yes, well... Even if you put thousands in your headphone equipment you wouldn't get to fidelity as you see it. 
 
I quite dislike the term "soul", even if it is for lack of a better word 

 
I've used this metaphor: Can you enjoy a book if you had severe dyslexia? Good headphones bring the musical content to you in its integrity. Bad headphones mask this information in exchange for a little thump, perhaps, and ignorance is bliss and all that. I care about the musical content much more than the realistic presentation of it all, because even 10,000usd headphone systems don't give me that. For the price and even upward, the KNS8400 are simply the best allrounders I've ever used for such a long period of time. Went back to the chaotic Mahavishnu yesterday and it had information I've even missed listening with my beloved K272HD. John playing guitar on the right channel and mr. Hammer in the synth on the left, ever so consistent in midst of Cobham's double pedaling of the kick drums. Fantastic presentation and articulation of instruments and their notes to the pitch in such a fast pace. 
 
Now, I can't tell what you mean when you say that you're dead serious about this, but if you're a music lover first and audiophile second, I'd highly suggest you give the KNS8400 a try. The main quarrel with them at the moment is that they don't isolate too much. I have a German Maestro GMP 8.35D on the way and I'm interested to find out how they fare to the KRK. They've been told to be very balanced and fast with maybe more emphasis on the "feel" side of things, but not losing integrity. Not my words, but I'm hoping. 

 Plus they isolate very good, from what I read, and are near indestructible. I can let you know how they fare against the KRK this week when I receive them. 

 

[holylucifer]

Well its nice the krk is getting positive feedback from you guys, its musical accurate rich lively and hopefully a true blue element which is critical, like the tone but it should do well enough there plus clarity.
 
The dt 48 is true blue analytical but this is more of a musical type that does not give you a wow factor. 
 
 

 

[R-Audiohead]

Quote:

Yes, well... Even if you put thousands in your headphone equipment you wouldn't get to fidelity as you see it. 
 
I quite dislike the term "soul", even if it is for lack of a better word 

 
I've used this metaphor: Can you enjoy a book if you had severe dyslexia? Good headphones bring the musical content to you in its integrity. Bad headphones mask this information in exchange for a little thump, perhaps, and ignorance is bliss and all that. I care about the musical content much more than the realistic presentation of it all, because even 10,000usd headphone systems don't give me that. For the price and even upward, the KNS8400 are simply the best allrounders I've ever used for such a long period of time. Went back to the chaotic Mahavishnu yesterday and it had information I've even missed listening with my beloved K272HD. John playing guitar on the right channel and mr. Hammer in the synth on the left, ever so consistent in midst of Cobham's double pedaling of the kick drums. Fantastic presentation and articulation of instruments and their notes to the pitch in such a fast pace. 
 
Now, I can't tell what you mean when you say that you're dead serious about this, but if you're a music lover first and audiophile second, I'd highly suggest you give the KNS8400 a try. The main quarrel with them at the moment is that they don't isolate too much. I have a German Maestro GMP 8.35D on the way and I'm interested to find out how they fare to the KRK. They've been told to be very balanced and fast with maybe more emphasis on the "feel" side of things, but not losing integrity. Not my words, but I'm hoping. 

 Plus they isolate very good, from what I read, and are near indestructible. I can let you know how they fare against the KRK this week when I receive them. 

MB Quart/German Maestro make some of the fastest drivers I've heard, and not just in the headphone world but in their external stuff as well.
 
I have the QP805, which is basically the GMP 8.300 equivalent.  The mids are a little atypical of MB Quart but still very fresh and real.  If the 8.35D are anything like the QP805 though, get ready for some bass.
 
It isn't bloated or sloppy, I quite like it.. but it is a little emphasized.  It carries some rich impact.
 
Honestly (and I know I have preached this before), if you want an extremely revealing and unforgiving headphone, try the SP-1 (or GMP450 PRO, they're just about identical).  The SP-1 is a very detailed speed demon, and sounds really flat to me with maybe a bump in the dead center minds.
 
 
I'm excited to hear your impression of the GMP 8.35D.  GMP is very under appreciated around here.  Things like the QP400/450PRO have been around longer than the Senn HD650 and IMO compete in a similar tier (even if polar opposites)

 

[Sonic Atrocity]

Probably going to go with the KRK. I will do a little more research and then find out.

 

[electropop]

Quote:

MB Quart/German Maestro make some of the fastest drivers I've heard, and not just in the headphone world but in their external stuff as well.
 
I have the QP805, which is basically the GMP 8.300 equivalent.  The mids are a little atypical of MB Quart but still very fresh and real.  If the 8.35D are anything like the QP805 though, get ready for some bass.
 
It isn't bloated or sloppy, I quite like it.. but it is a little emphasized.  It carries some rich impact.
 
Honestly (and I know I have preached this before), if you want an extremely revealing and unforgiving headphone, try the SP-1 (or GMP450 PRO, they're just about identical).  The SP-1 is a very detailed speed demon, and sounds really flat to me with maybe a bump in the dead center minds.
 
 
I'm excited to hear your impression of the GMP 8.35D.  GMP is very under appreciated around here.  Things like the QP400/450PRO have been around longer than the Senn HD650 and IMO compete in a similar tier (even if polar opposites)

 
That's something of which I'm a bit afraid. According to two others, the exchange pads I ordered (oval ones, model 40-6050) would help though. We'll see though... The 300ohm 8.300D's seemed smoother according to certain graphs.
 
http://www.hifiheadphones.co.uk/germanmaestro-gmp-835-monitor-closed-headphones-prodid-3851.html
http://www.hifiheadphones.co.uk/germanmaestro-gmp-8300-professional-closed-headphones-prodid-3852.html
 
Hard to imagine it would beat KNS8400 in mid-range reproduction or overall smoothnes... We'll see though
 

 

[R-Audiohead]

I much prefer the mids of the SP-1 to the QP805

 

[electropop]

I'm sure you do and believe that they would objectively be the better headphone. But since I don't listen to headphones at home, only on the move, the reported lack of proper isolation for the SP-1 (or GMP450) definitely rules it out. The price gap wasn't too much for me not to have considered them. 
I don't have a good grasp on how the 8.35 or 805 will perform. The major reasons that led me to go for them was the build and isolation. I'm hoping they'll at least outperform the K272. 

 

[Sonic Atrocity]

Quote:

Well its nice the krk is getting positive feedback from you guys, its musical accurate rich lively and hopefully a true blue element which is critical, like the tone but it should do well enough there plus clarity.
 
The dt 48 is true blue analytical but this is more of a musical type that does not give you a wow factor. 
 
 

Does the KRK not have as flat a frequency response?
 

 

[Marximus]

Ordered and shipped. Should be here on Friday.  As with my previous pair, I'll probably modify the headband to make the cushions softer.  Anybody else have comfort issues with the headband?

 

[R-Audiohead]

Quote:

I'm sure you do and believe that they would objectively be the better headphone. But since I don't listen to headphones at home, only on the move, the reported lack of proper isolation for the SP-1 (or GMP450) definitely rules it out. The price gap wasn't too much for me not to have considered them. 
I don't have a good grasp on how the 8.35 or 805 will perform. The major reasons that led me to go for them was the build and isolation. I'm hoping they'll at least outperform the K272. 

It'll be interesting to hear your impressions.
 
I know people use the term "built like tanks" way too often... but that GMP series defines this phrase.  I wish I had the 100 ohm version of the QP805 so I could drive them properly from a portable rig.  Portable amps driving 300 ohms is asking a bit much
 

 

[megamagic]

Quote:

Ordered and shipped. Should be here on Friday.  As with my previous pair, I'll probably modify the headband to make the cushions softer.  Anybody else have comfort issues with the headband?

No comfort issues for me. I can feel slight pressure from the headband but don't really notice it while listening. I like KRK's choice of memory foam for the pads too. Quite soft and gives slight amount of seal. I think it helps to isolate the sound somewhat as well, although I think most? monitor's don't leak out much sound anyway.

 

[djevoultion]

Anyone know how these compare to the DT250? 

 

[Marximus]

I had the DT 250s briefly, and from what I remember, the 8400s are more lively.  Better treble extension and the drums sound more like drums.  The DT 250s are a little boring.

 

[bookaboo]

i am considering the kns 8400s but i am so used to my dt250s that i will never get rid of them. level of detail is close but the are a bit rolled off in the treble giving them a smoother sound overall. more bass if you like that sort of thing - i do. overall the dt250 is a great listening can it grooves along with the best of them and if you typically treble sensitive like i am they are great. i was floored by the kns8400 when i listened to them in the shop but felt they would be a little bit too bright fo me in the long run - but im someone who finds the hd600 bright so take from that what you will.
 
the dt250 i own is the 80ohm model
 

 

[Sonic Atrocity]

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar11/articles/krk-kns8400.htm
 
Another link suggesting there is an emphasis in the midrange. Doesn't quite seem to be perceived as flat here. Thoughts?