[Ciggavelli]

Wax on to your hearts content, it's endearing.

Alright, I'm gonna go on a drunk exposition then. Headphones are a journey. You want more and more sound quality. But you reach a plateau when you get to a certain level. Then you're like, "what's next?" There isn't anything next. It's just a side grade. Then you focus on the headphones, because they give you the biggest sound quality difference. There are then always compromises. You want that best sound. But it doesn't exist. You focus all of your intentions on getting that better sound quality, but it doesn't exist. There is no headphone that will give you that ultimate sound quality. What are we doing in the hobby? Ultimately, we are trying to find that pair of headphones, that setup, that will give us all of the things we are missing. But it doesn't come from the equipment; it comes from the self. That sh!t is hard to recognize. The self is the ultimate judge of the subjective. You think that getting better and better sound quality can compensate for the deficiencies, but it can't. I dunno, maybe I'm more invested in the "ultimate" than others, but sound quality can't get you there. The self is a reflection of your ultimate setup. I mean, money matters, but there gets a point in your life where you can purchase anything. Does it reflect the self, or is it just a feign attempt at actualizing what you miss? I dunno, I'm just waxing on...

 

[PhazeCrive]

@Ciggavelli Possibly a touch late. I too share the same sentiment of wanting more TC bass. If Abyss made bigger earpads that increased the distance from the driver to your ears, you would get even more bass response. The trick is to maximize the amount of air the driver has to work with while having the earpad trap as much bass frequencies as possible. It's no secret you can pull the headphone out for more driver activity but that low omnidirectional bass just flies out of the cup into oblivion. The electronics in the system won't be able to make up for the bass loss. It's literally a physical leak so a larger physical pad would remedy it.

Or a new larger flagship >

 

[krude]

I'm gonna go off on an existential rant, but bear with me. Does what we listen to even matter? Does the high-end even matter? I'm listending to my TCs right now, listening to Roxy Music . I just keep thinking, does it even matter? If you can enjoy the music off some sh!tty airpods or something, does it matter? That connection you feel from the music; can you get it with "normal" headphones? I like to think the better headphones bring you closer to the music. The music is more "real." That's why I love the TCs so much; they give me what I'm looking for with headphones. I want that V-shape. I want that bass and treble. But, does it matter? Does it really matter? Our hobby is interesting. We wanna max out our sh!t. Why shouldn't we? We strive for the best possible music, possible. But, I see the layman's situation. If they can get that with some sh!tty headphones, does it matter? What do we want, existentially from headphones? What are we chasing? Is it the music, or is it an emotion? Stats have given me the technical sh!t. I mean, other than bass, they do everything exceptionally, but the bass is the problem. The TCs give us that bass. It could be better, but not better in headphones. They give us the treble. Yeah, it's not estat level, but it's close. Is this the end. Is this the ultimate SQ?

Sorry, I've been in an existential wave these past few days. Can equipment give us want we want? Can equipment and headphones give us what we are missing? Can they fill that gap? I think of headphones like I think of life. Music is everything to me, so why shouldn't I max out my musical enjoyment? Is that the audiophile dilemma? I dunno, just ramblings from a fool. Headphones represent life for some people, and I like to think the Head-fi crew is those people, but what do we really want? What can give us that audiophile climax?

I'm into philosophy a bit, since existential questions were asked, and I had the same questions : ) I thought I'll chime in with what I got to.

1. We are conditioned to chase, and not enjoy. As long as we have this conditioning we will never be satisified no matter what. "I can't get no, satisfaction". This is a permanent state of suffering unfortunately.
2. It also leads to obsessive improvement, which generates stress in a lot of people in the hobby. I observed that among some of my friends, and after realising how bad it can get I decided that if I ever observe even 1% stressing about about ... actually about anything, it's not worth doing. Either I can be completely chill and enjoy, or I don't want anything to do with it.
3. At the end of the day, we want to enjoy music, and to do it we're buliding systems. It's perfectly normal. I also drive fast cars (at least 300 bhp and 4 wheel drive to have fun in the wet and snow), because that's what I enjoy : ) I just want to have a reasonably good ... or best : ) experience I can get hassle and stress free.

Is there and ideal final system? No.

But I did realise, that I just want to enjoy every moment of my life, so stressing out about anything makes absolutely no sense. I just enjoy, but I also improve while still enjoying. The biggest improvements are those that eliminate stress though : )

 

[donato]

Alright, I'm gonna go on a drunk exposition then. Headphones are a journey. You want more and more sound quality. But you reach a plateau when you get to a certain level. Then you're like, "what's next?" There isn't anything next. It's just a side grade. Then you focus on the headphones, because they give you the biggest sound quality difference. There are then always compromises. You want that best sound. But it doesn't exist. You focus all of your intentions on getting that better sound quality, but it doesn't exist. There is no headphone that will give you that ultimate sound quality. What are we doing in the hobby? Ultimately, we are trying to find that pair of headphones, that setup, that will give us all of the things we are missing. But it doesn't come from the equipment; it comes from the self. That sh!t is hard to recognize. The self is the ultimate judge of the subjective. You think that getting better and better sound quality can compensate for the deficiencies, but it can't. I dunno, maybe I'm more invested in the "ultimate" than others, but sound quality can't get you there. The self is a reflection of your ultimate setup. I mean, money matters, but there gets a point in your life where you can purchase anything. Does it reflect the self, or is it just a feign attempt at actualizing what you miss? I dunno, I'm just waxing on...

Sounds like a few different things going on here. For one, there is the hedonic treadmill. As we gain a higher level of satisfaction with something, as humans we essentially make that our baseline and then resume our chasing the the next level. There is the cliche saying about the journey and the destination. As hobbyists, ideally we should enjoy the journey of the incremental changes, sometimes forward sometimes back, and not just some looking to obtain the platonic ideal of the perfect and ultimate which is of course is unachievable in our mundane existence of reality.

Some of what you are realizing that it is internal which is of course a big part of it for us each individually. I quote this saying a lot - success is getting what you, but happiness is liking what you get (I also like the saying you don't perceive the world the way it is, you perceive it the way you are). There was that psychology study where there were they looked at the happiness level of lottery winners and paraplegics 1 year after their respective events and found that their happiness with their lives were equal. it boggles the mind to think that you could be similarly happy after each of those outcomes, but it does speak to the happiness leveling that is built into each of us.

Maybe you need a "detox" from summit-fi and just enjoy the music on whatever lo-fi rig you have; we all lived lives before we were at summit-fi and we all still enjoyed music, which as you noted also leads us to pursue higher quality. Then when you come back to your summit-fi rig and appreciate it for what it in fact does instead of what it doesn't yet do. Or maybe you end up deciding summit-fi is pointless and doesn't really get you any closer to the music really. Apologies if that comes across preachy or something (not intended at all). just trying to muse along with your thoughts since this is something I also think about with my hobbies as well as with life in general...

 

[Jon L]

I recommend a good 30-year single malt with your favorite music

 

[simorag]

I'm gonna go off on an existential rant, but bear with me. Does what we listen to even matter? Does the high-end even matter? I'm listending to my TCs right now, listening to Roxy Music . I just keep thinking, does it even matter? If you can enjoy the music off some sh!tty airpods or something, does it matter? That connection you feel from the music; can you get it with "normal" headphones? I like to think the better headphones bring you closer to the music. The music is more "real." That's why I love the TCs so much; they give me what I'm looking for with headphones. I want that V-shape. I want that bass and treble. But, does it matter? Does it really matter? Our hobby is interesting. We wanna max out our sh!t. Why shouldn't we? We strive for the best possible music, possible. But, I see the layman's situation. If they can get that with some sh!tty headphones, does it matter? What do we want, existentially from headphones? What are we chasing? Is it the music, or is it an emotion? Stats have given me the technical sh!t. I mean, other than bass, they do everything exceptionally, but the bass is the problem. The TCs give us that bass. It could be better, but not better in headphones. They give us the treble. Yeah, it's not estat level, but it's close. Is this the end. Is this the ultimate SQ?

Sorry, I've been in an existential wave these past few days. Can equipment give us want we want? Can equipment and headphones give us what we are missing? Can they fill that gap? I think of headphones like I think of life. Music is everything to me, so why shouldn't I max out my musical enjoyment? Is that the audiophile dilemma? I dunno, just ramblings from a fool. Headphones represent life for some people, and I like to think the Head-fi crew is those people, but what do we really want? What can give us that audiophile climax?

Alright, I'm gonna go on a drunk exposition then. Headphones are a journey. You want more and more sound quality. But you reach a plateau when you get to a certain level. Then you're like, "what's next?" There isn't anything next. It's just a side grade. Then you focus on the headphones, because they give you the biggest sound quality difference. There are then always compromises. You want that best sound. But it doesn't exist. You focus all of your intentions on getting that better sound quality, but it doesn't exist. There is no headphone that will give you that ultimate sound quality. What are we doing in the hobby? Ultimately, we are trying to find that pair of headphones, that setup, that will give us all of the things we are missing. But it doesn't come from the equipment; it comes from the self. That sh!t is hard to recognize. The self is the ultimate judge of the subjective. You think that getting better and better sound quality can compensate for the deficiencies, but it can't. I dunno, maybe I'm more invested in the "ultimate" than others, but sound quality can't get you there. The self is a reflection of your ultimate setup. I mean, money matters, but there gets a point in your life where you can purchase anything. Does it reflect the self, or is it just a feign attempt at actualizing what you miss? I dunno, I'm just waxing on...

I believe your thoughts and feelings are shared by a lot of people (and can easily be transposed beyond the audiophile persona), and sure I am among them.

Music has been the single most powerful source of emotional reactions for me since I was I child. I have become an audiophile because when I was first exposed to an advanced audio reproduction system in my teens I had the exalting revelation that such gear could multiply this power immensely.

Music for me is truly a holistic experience, I am moved by the words, the sound (i.e. the sheer musical content), the mechanical vibrations produced in my whole body, and the experience of all this in communion with others (the musicians, other persons attending the performance).

Audio equipment technical capabilities do make a huge difference to how effectively this holistic experience can be conveyed to / recreated for me, thus igniting the physical, intellectual, emotive connection I strive for so dearly.

This of course produces the quest for better and better gear, which - being elusive in itself - can degenerate into obsession up to detracting (distracting) from the the enjoyment of music, turning from the means to an end to the end itself as we all know.

'Ultimate' is a word that does not apply to our hobby, both because we are far from it technically and - more importantly - because we humans are never the ultimate version of ourselves.

Although I have accepted this long ago rationally, it is difficult to come to terms with it phychologically, and this is why I still belong to the unicorn seekers lunatic fringe.

 

[normie610]

Just received back my 1266 TC (apparently nobody wanted to buy it here in my country ) and having a first listen again after many months, I was instantly reminded that timbre and tonality isn't its strong suit, especially compared to my other 3 headphones. But it's nice to hear that subwoofer bass again, and for sure this is a pair of fun headphones.

 

[Exekuhtor]

Honestly with sweet tubes it's really not that bad, but yeah, you have to work around it ahaha.

 

[sloomingbla]

I hate to say it, but I'm kinda getting complacent with the TCs. They are great, and still my favorite headphones ever (and that is saying something given my collection), but I want more. When is the new TOTL Abyss headphone gonna come out? Maybe they can't top the 1266 TC?

I want even more bass and better sub-bass extension with a more well-rounded midrange. Keep the treble where it's at. If you can do more stat like resolution, cool, but it's not needed. The TCs aren't up to Shang levels with the treble, but I don't necessarily need that. Maybe it's not possible to top the 1266 TCs, but I hope they can. It's been a while since the TCs have come out. I'd love to hear what Abyss can come up with next.

I agree with the sentiment of where I'd love abyss to go with them. They are already incredible (and I MISS MINE), but that's exactly the thing I was always wishing for. Warmer mids, and a bit more bass. I will say, my th900 (With the proper pad mods) still to date has my favorite tuning, and is "perfect" to my ears (read: thumping bass I can feel, largely warm sound signature, no harshness/muddiness, good soundstage/detail), so at the very least I know that a "perfect" (subjective) signature is possible. Question is how much that sort of sound signature inherently reduces detail. Hard to sell a warmer, thumpier tc if it means losing in detail to similarly priced headphones. Especially since "Most detailed headphones ever" is like their selling point.

Course, my t900s are nothing compared to the tc's in terms of overall fidelity, not even close. So I still preferred the TCs by a wide margin, as they still have a pretty awesome sound signature already. Easy to nitpick, haha.

 

[newToAudio100]

I haven't tried it with the abyss or susvara but have you thought about adding eq? Something like a slope of +1db at 100hz up to +4-5db at 20hz, and set 0db at 8hz, then set a pre gain of -4-5db. I did something similar with the hd800s and it turned into a deep sub bass headphone. It worked out really well.

 

[sloomingbla]

I haven't tried it with the abyss or susvara but have you thought about adding eq? Something like a slope of +1db at 100hz up to +4-5db at 20hz, and set 0db at 8hz, then set a pre gain of -4-5db. I did something similar with the hd800s and it turned into a deep sub bass headphone. It worked out really well.

I've never had the best results with eq, myself. I've tried many, many times to make even small adjustments, but it seems those adjustments always manage to sound artificial, and the processing seems to reduce detail imo.

From what I've experienced, adjusting the sound digitally to fit the physical sound characteristics of headphones is still limited by the physical sound characteristics. Adding bass will make things muddy and bloated, negative eq or not. It can still be a net positive adjustment if done tastefully, but won't ever compare to physical changes to the 'phones imo. Too many factors go into how they sound other than just freq response

 

[number1sixerfan]

I hate to say it, but I'm kinda getting complacent with the TCs. They are great, and still my favorite headphones ever (and that is saying something given my collection), but I want more. When is the new TOTL Abyss headphone gonna come out? Maybe they can't top the 1266 TC?

I want even more bass and better sub-bass extension with a more well-rounded midrange. Keep the treble where it's at. If you can do more stat like resolution, cool, but it's not needed. The TCs aren't up to Shang levels with the treble, but I don't necessarily need that. Maybe it's not possible to top the 1266 TCs, but I hope they can. It's been a while since the TCs have come out. I'd love to hear what Abyss can come up with next.

How do you and some people want even MORE bass? LOL. Subbass I do get to a degree, but the bass overall has to be near the ceiling for what a headphone can do lol. But yea, you round out the midrange and I think you have an extremely strong case for one of, it not the absolute "best" and "most complete" out there. I certainly will try their next TOTL offering, whenever it's available.

But ultimately, your latter posts I absolutely agree with. Every single pair of headphones has a gap or incompleteness, and if you're not careful and don't focus on their strengths, you can definitely consistently long for more. One thing that helped me this year was the realization that although I had a lot of gear, I was listening to the same 2-300 songs (albeit favorites) and not discovering enough new music. I've been focusing on that a lot more.

If feels like more people are reflecting on their habits in the hobby than back in the day and I think that's a net positive and makes trying new gear more intentional. Good stuff.

 

[PhazeCrive]

The bass has to be in the track for it to actually come out of the headphone. I think we just are slightly dissatisfied with the track itself. Cuz when it rains, it pours, if you know what I mean. It just doesn't do it for every song, especially when you think it should. A lot of times I go "man this would sound so much better if the artist gave this section a few more decibels."

 

[Ciggavelli]

How do you and some people want even MORE bass? LOL. Subbass I do get to a degree, but the bass overall has to be near the ceiling for what a headphone can do lol. But yea, you round out the midrange and I think you have an extremely strong case for one of, it not the absolute "best" and "most complete" out there. I certainly will try their next TOTL offering, whenever it's available.

But ultimately, your latter posts I absolutely agree with. Every single pair of headphones has a gap or incompleteness, and if you're not careful and don't focus on their strengths, you can definitely consistently long for more. One thing that helped me this year was the realization that although I had a lot of gear, I was listening to the same 2-300 songs (albeit favorites) and not discovering enough new music. I've been focusing on that a lot more.

If feels like more people are reflecting on their habits in the hobby than back in the day and I think that's a net positive and makes trying new gear more intentional. Good stuff.

The TCs are good at bass, in general, but it has to be at the right FR. Sometimes bass feels lacking. The TCs have a hump with certain ranges, but are a bit lacking in other FR. I don't know enough about looking at FR charts to comment more, but there is something going on. I've listened to the TCs more than any other pair of headphones I've owned, so I'm most familiar with it. Other headphones do sub-bass better. It is what it is. That mid-bass hump, or whatever, is intoxicating though. With the right album, and the right song, the bass is marvelous, but I want a more uniform bass response.

Also, I don't agree with the "highest resolution" statement Abyss has been making. I mean, I have the Shang Sr, so you know I don't agree. The TCs are getting long in the tooth, but so are the Susvaras. Maybe the respective companies can't make better headphones. I know Abyss used to update their 1266 like every year, then they got some flack for that, and we haven't had an upgrade in some time. Still, I'd like to see an upgrade or a new flagship, and I'd be willing to pay $6K for it (and maybe a little more). Also, the mid-range complaint is justified. I don't really care about the mid-range as much as the bass and treble, but I still see the flaws.

I recently got into craft brews again, and I had an IPA stout. Sh!t made no sense, but then I got to thinking, why shouldn't there be an IPA stout? I want Abyss to make an IPA stout

 

[BlakeT]

New AB1266 Phi TC owner here. Package from Abyss arrived on Thursday and I've had them playing 24/7 non-stop to burn in, so with that caveat... these are my new favorite headphones of all time.

Based on some online reviews and comments, I was expecting an extreme V or U shape response, but once I obsessively worked through the fitment to get things just right, honestly, I'm not sure they are all that scooped out in the mids. Yes, mids are set back a bit further (as compared to my LCD-4z), but nothing off putting about the mids at all. Perhaps it is my chain that helps, but I was very pleasantly surprised by the mids. Sure, this isn't a headphone for mid-centric fans, but overall, I'm a very happy camper.

I also find them supremely comfortable, as in, my most comfortable cans ever (previous to 1266, I'd say that title would go to HE1000se). I have a personal quirk, where over time, I get really annoyed with any lateral pressure around my ears. With the 1266, voila, problem solved.

Next up, I'll be sending my Norne Vykari Reference cables for re-termination so I can swap them for the stock cable.