[Beolab]

Beolab a few pages back you said 

"Go for the Abyss, you wont regret it in the long run, and you do not have to worry about the power from the Taurus.


It where among the best dedicated SS headamps for Abyss in 2013 when it was released, but there is just a few amps maybe that have surpassed it slightly, but it is a good combo with a slight cleanliness like the SR-009 tone to it, so you have the both of the to worlds.

"

Now you are saying it doesn't have enough power at all for the Abyss. Uwotm8. No worries, just curious why the switch of opinion? 

Yes the Taurus amp is very good for many headphones owners, but as you mentioned in your review that it clipped using the EQ, and you taught HE1K had greater sub bass performance which they dont have if the Abyss are proper amped, and because of that the HE1K load are easier for the amp to handle.
So my conclution is that Taurus may not be the amp for you with your listening criterias, you need a more powerfull one is my simple diagnose.

From the beginning we did not discuss what sort of music you where playing or if you used an EQ for the signal, that change your criteria and selection of amp.

Then the Moon 430 Neo amp, yes it can drive the Abyss, but not effortlessly because the bass are ressed and does not have som much warmth either from my listening impressions as it have with other headphones with higher sensitivity.

So before you buy any new amp i would recommend you to listen to the Moon 430 and compare it to the Wells Enigma / Headtrip and the Woo Wa5 amp at the next CanJam near you so you find a reference to what you like.

And if you dont have any near dealer or CanJam, then i would suggest a amp with greater power, because from what you are wrighting you have the same criteria as myself i think.

But hey ! You got one of the best headphones in the world ever made, and our HiFi-hobby road never stops, it just moving forward for everyone.

Enjoy !

 

[Joe Skubinski]

The power argument has been going on for a long time. J. Gordon Holt wrote an article in 1962 that from time to time gets republished, as it did a few weeks ago here...http://www.stereophile.com/content/amplifier-power-how-much-enough#1tPP2HYILOBkQbgk.97

I appreciate big amps. enjoy 500 watt mono amps on 2 way loudspeakers, augmented with 2 JL subs below 40 Hz. Of course I'm not pushing 500 watts into a 7" woofer. With smaller amps, bass energy at some point just hits a wall and you hear the amp sort of just go to jello, mid and high freq content sounds compressed and distorted at higher levels, the sound of audio reproduction starving for more power. Each amp design reacts and sounds differently when they hit their limits. Big amps never run out of power, they sound much more effortless. Let's just say I've never hit a wall with the 500 watt mono's, at any listening level they always play clean.

I should add however that you need to understand the limits of the speakers or headphones- With power comes the need for restraint.

 

[Beolab]

The power argument has been going on for a long time. J. Gordon Holt wrote an article in 1962 that from time to time gets republished, as it did a few weeks ago here...http://www.stereophile.com/content/amplifier-power-how-much-enough#1tPP2HYILOBkQbgk.97

I appreciate big amps. enjoy 500 watt mono amps on 2 way loudspeakers, augmented with 2 JL subs below 40 Hz. Of course I'm not pushing 500 watts into a 7" woofer. With smaller amps, bass energy at some point just hits a wall and you hear the amp sort of just go to jello, mid and high freq content sounds compressed and distorted at higher levels, the sound of audio reproduction starving for more power. Each amp design reacts and sounds differently when they hit their limits. Big amps never run out of power, they sound much more effortless. Let's just say I've never hit a wall with the 500 watt mono's, at any listening level they always play clean.

I should add however that you need to understand the limits of the speakers or headphones- With power comes the need for restraint.

Amen!

 

[Joe Skubinski]

No need to argue about the size of our amps. Some like them big, some like them small, all depends on what you listen to.

The trouble with a distortion spec is it only gives you a snapshot at one point and level in time into a fixed load. A distortion graph showing multiple harmonics throughout the frequency range is a bit more useful but rarely given.

In any case, distortions are like cholesterol, there's good and there's bad, and as long as you need to eat, you're going to get both.

The sound of the primary distortions is what gets noticed, second order harmonic distortion (such as with tube amps) or a level spread of second and third order harmonics tend to sound better than third only (solid state w/ negative feedback, as an example). So you could have say 0.5% THD, but if it's mostly second order, it can actually sound better than say 0.1% of all third harmonic. There's also intermodulation distortion (IMD) which are frequencies created out of thin air from the musical information, to our brains they have no relationship to the fundamental musical notes, makes instruments sound broken. This type of distortion is unpredictable, and again a little can go a long way on the annoying scale. There's no measurement that can tell you what this will sound like from one system to the next as it's dependent on the content of the music at any given set of notes playing simultaneously.

With headphones you do not have a large room and loudspeaker/crossover distortions as a mask or buffer, so there's no hiding a bad sounding set of distortions, even if they are quite low. If you like to turn up the volume, not only does the music get louder, but so do the distortions. IMO best to minimize the bad and maximize the good.

The article is obviously pretty old, but nowadays, when they rate an amplifier at X amount of distortion and X watts, shouldn't that distortion be measured at the rated output power?   Or is it measured at 80% output, or 1w output or is there no standard and the manufacturer can spin their measurements any way they want to make the specs look better?

 

[discodelico]

I've listened my Abyss with Moon Neo 430 HA & they sounded great, but if you can afford a Viva Egoista..... it's THE BEST amplifier I've ever heard.

 

[isquirrel]

I've listened my Abyss with Moon Neo 430 HA & they sounded great, but if you can afford a Viva Egoista..... it's THE BEST amplifier I've ever heard.

Beautiful turntable you have there, congrats.

 

[MaggotBrain]

Living here in Hawaii, I haven't had the opportunity to personally check out a lot of the summit-if equipment listed here (except for a brief listening spree when on vacation in Tokyo). I depend on the opinions of those in forums such as these, and it's been incredibly informative and helpful. I come from a science background - and you treat purchase scientifically when considering big purchases like an Abyss - I read the whole thread and most every articles, viewed most YouTube reviews You find follow whose opinion you value and hear how they inttrepert their findings and measurements and then you figuratively take the leap and buy the thing.

So as this issue of trying things out yourself comes to the forefront, allow me to share a anecdote - marginally related to abyss as always but I think it's worthwhile to mention. A few months back - actually taking the Thanksgiving turkey out of the oven (something you're spared from doing Down Under, Mulder!) - I tweaked my back. Thought it was a strain at first, and went throug all of the standard treatments. Keep in mind I'm a doctor who takes care of the elderly, so this is my bread and butter. I do the Standard antiinflammatory Meds and back exercises with no luck. Then I sprinkled some of my tricks of the trade, including alternating hot packs the ice and even a TENS unit (zapping electrodes in the back - this is an electronics forum of sorts so I'm semi on track here) Still no relief and I'm pulling at straws then I running errands at Costco and I see an inversion machine - basically a tilting table that dangles you upside down like a bat except you're tethered by the ankles. Crazy, right. Then I remembered I had an MRI years back showing disc degeneration and figured this might spread the suckers apart a bit. But even then I didn't take the plunge - I had to do my scientific test - so, get this, at the playground, I tell my five year " look to see if your daddy can dangle upside down" - so I do it - and, kids, don't try this at home because I am a certifiable nut who used to climb super high oak trees and pick up snapping turtles and all kinds of goofy possibly self injurious nut job things as a kid and some of the folly still lingers. So I go on the monkey bars,, dangle upside down for 5-10 minutes and, lo and behold, I can actually walk upright like a proper homo sapien and not a chimp. So I listened to my experience, took the plunge, bought. the thing and I feel well enough to babble incomprehensibly again. After a week 90 percent of the pain is gone and I hope for more in the weeks to come. So to bring this back to Abyss - this is about the Abyss, right? - listen to folks you know and trust and listen to those with experience especially. Do that and you can literally save yourself from some pain!

 

[discodelico]

Thank you!
It's my Kuzma XLDC, with a Kuzma 4point.

You've got the Audeze LCD4!!!!
Did you compared them with LCD3?

 

[Currawong]

Edit: Please avoid getting personal with each other and also remember that this is an impressions thread. Regardless of the fact that nobody is going to put the full output of a high-power amp into their headphones people are interested in reading about the experiences with high-end amps. 

 

[ufospls2]

Ok guys. I will have to edit my impressions post regarding the sub bass and distortion. It is a problem with my Auralic Taurus, there is something wrong with it. I have tried other headphones now and it is the same issue, distortion, especially with a bit eq in the low end. I have just acquired an adapter to run my Geek Out V2 in balanced mode with my Abyss, and it is only able to put out 1000mw of power, and the bass and sub bass is fantastic, and not distorting. There is the physicality, and impact I was hoping to experience with the Abyss. 
 
I am VERY happy with these headphones now. I can't WAIT to hear them with a more powerful amp than the Geek Out V2 that is properly functioning. 
 
I am VERY bummed about my Taurus, but hopefully I can get it fixed via warranty I have emailed Auralic and will see what they say. 

 

[Currawong]

  Ok guys. I will have to edit my impressions post regarding the sub bass and distortion. It is a problem with my Auralic Taurus, there is something wrong with it. I have tried other headphones now and it is the same issue, distortion, especially with a bit eq in the low end. I have just acquired an adapter to run my Geek Out V2 in balanced mode with my Abyss, and it is only able to put out 1000mw of power, and the bass and sub bass is fantastic, and not distorting. There is the physicality, and impact I was hoping to experience with the Abyss. 
 
I am VERY happy with these headphones now. I can't WAIT to hear them with a more powerful amp than the Geek Out V2 that is properly functioning. 
 
I am VERY bummed about my Taurus, but hopefully I can get it fixed via warranty I have emailed Auralic and will see what they say. 

Did you say earlier that you were EQ'ing up the bass and that it was clipping? I'm wondering, if so, if the distortion isn't caused by the EQ causing the DAC to clip.

 

[ufospls2]

 
Did you say earlier that you were EQ'ing up the bass and that it was clipping? I'm wondering, if so, if the distortion isn't caused by the EQ causing the DAC to clip.

No this is without EQ and with EQ that it is distorting, at different frequencies. I've tried a different DAC as well. EQ just makes it worse. I'll try another DAC if I can get my hands on one though. Can't hurt. 

 

[Currawong]

Make sure any EQ is completely disabled in your software. You might want to double-check with another transport (eg: A DAP with the EQ confirmed off) rather than another DAC. 

 

[ufospls2]

  Make sure any EQ is completely disabled in your software. You might want to double-check with another transport (eg: A DAP with the EQ confirmed off) rather than another DAC. 

Ok cool. Will try today. 

 

[Xecuter]

   
You read stuff like all the time.  Has he heard it with anything better than the Rag?  And if so, could he AFFORD something better than the Rag?  It could be a case of either ignorance or sour grapes.
 
Or that he just does prefer it....

Hi there, I'm that friend.
 
I have heard it from wa234,  taurus, wa5, gsx-mkii, LaU, prautes and from the vio 281. 
 
I chose the Rag based on my Dac, which is an r2r sfd-1 mkII SE+. It gets way too hot for my apartment and I'm already considering ditching it.
 
I have no idea what to replace it with. Thinking Eddie Current studio maybe?