[me2621a]

OK. probably a noob question. Cables.

I don't see any posts talking about the lite package supplied Abyss cable. Has anyone tried after market cables v this cable? I use a very nice all silver Norne Audio cable on my LCD4 so may try that with an adapter. Any thoughts on this?

I have a light version with the standard cable and in my opinion/experience the standard cable is very good (compared to most standard cables). I sit 15ft from my amps when listening due to the way my room is setup so I needed an after market cable. I tried a C3 universal cable (~$700) and a Moon Audio silver dragon cable ($690), the c3 cable was to neutral/dark (did wonders for my other headphones) and the silver dragon cable came close to the stock cable but took away a bit of the sound stage. I am actually probably going to posts my 1266 CC next week for sale as it seems that you have to spend some serious money on a cable (possibly in the range of your Norne) to get equivalent or better performance to the stock cable and my cable budget tops out at about $1k haha.

 

[simorag]

OK. probably a noob question. Cables.

I don't see any posts talking about the lite package supplied Abyss cable. Has anyone tried after market cables v this cable? I use a very nice all silver Norne Audio cable on my LCD4 so may try that with an adapter. Any thoughts on this?

Hello!

I did a comparison of a few very good aftermarket cables in the following two posts:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...ressions-thread.666765/page-444#post-14261937
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...ressions-thread.666765/page-510#post-14797813

TL;DR - Stock is very good, DHC Prion4 is the best I tried for detail and transparency, Superconductor - what I ended up with - is almost as transparent as the Prion4 but with more organic sound and slightly more emotional vocals.

 

[Joe Skubinski]

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[rsbrsvp]

I have a light version with the standard cable and in my opinion/experience the standard cable is very good (compared to most standard cables). I sit 15ft from my amps when listening due to the way my room is setup so I needed an after market cable. I tried a C3 universal cable (~$700) and a Moon Audio silver dragon cable ($690), the c3 cable was to neutral/dark (did wonders for my other headphones) and the silver dragon cable came close to the stock cable but took away a bit of the sound stage. I am actually probably going to posts my 1266 CC next week for sale as it seems that you have to spend some serious money on a cable (possibly in the range of your Norne) to get equivalent or better performance to the stock cable and my cable budget tops out at about $1k haha.

Interesting. I purchased a t2 pure silver cable (14 FT.) from Ted Allen for around $300. I believe it was on sale. It increased detail and transparency relative to the stock by a noticeable amount. No grain or harshness at all.

 

[FLTWS]

Interesting. I purchased a t2 pure silver cable (14 FT.) from Ted Allen for around $300. I believe it was on sale. It increased detail and transparency relative to the stock by a noticeable amount. No grain or harshness at all.

My recent experience as well with all silver (my first one), can't say why that should be and it's still early on in use. The top to bottom cleanness, tight bass control (tighter than some of my copper options) which reaches all the way down, and the clarity in the highs make for a highly detailed listening experience. Perhaps some of the air of all copper is missing and I've not listened for sound stage characteristics other than imaging which is precise, but I find HP's never as good as speakers in a room properly set up when it comes to sound stage. But its apples and oranges so.... But phones do have advantages of their own that speakers do not. It's nice to have options to listen with. I was actually expecting some harshness with some of my 60's and 70's classical recordings but was surprised when it didn't happen. I do need to get a lot more hours of experience with all silver.

 

[simorag]

My first (noob) attempt with speaker amps and Abyss Phi TC

I have recently sold my XI Audio stack (Formula S w/ Powerman) in order to move to an amp which I can use for both my Phi TC and high sensitivity loudspeakers.

I have already booked / planned a few auditions in the next few weeks, but in the meantime, I decided to give a chance to my 25 years old Audio Note OTO, a push-pull (4x EL84) class A tube amplifier with 12W on 8 Ohm.

I am sure the Oto designer never thought it could be used for driving a headphone, and that was apparent as soon as I plugged in the Abyss – via an XLR > banana adapter – into the speaker taps, and I was welcomed by a clearly audible background noise even at zero volume.

I tried grounding the amp and, while the buzz I could hear from the outside disappeared almost completely, the background noise through the drivers remained.

First lesson learned: don’t take for granted that the relatively low sensitivity of the AB-1266 is a protection against background noise. Hopefully, modern speaker tube amps will perform better than my Oto in this respect.

Second lesson learned for me: even with a modest 12W on 8Ohm, I had relatively small volume knob rotation available before getting to excessive loudness levels. With the DAVE in pre mode (-3dB fixed volume, 3V output over RCA), I could only use less than 20% of volume.

Obviously, there is more than W and Ohms to consider to project the driving capabilities of a speaker amp to the Abyss. I mean, by simply scaling 12W on 8ohm to 47Ohm (Phi TC impedance) I estimated about 2W of power, i.e. less than the Formula S, but this is obviously not the case ...

Can you experts out there please explain what is going on to this noob here?

Coming to the sound, the presentation via the Oto was apparently different, with a thicker, denser character, especially in the lower midrange down to sub-bass region.

Significantly less air but, strangely, an additional perceived depth and (slightly) width of the soundstage.

The upper midrange / lower treble smoothening from the vintage tube amp design was actually not there as I expected. Vocals were a bit sweeter but not much different from DAVE direct.

The most dramatic change in tonal balance was the bass response, with an emphasized mass and longer decay. A slower bass, less defined, whereas very enjoyable with certain tracks.

Dynamic changes are generally slower, but with a few tracks where the Formula S and the DAVE alone clipped (e.g. Funeral March for Rikard Nordraak - Reference Recordings - my go-to track for visceral dynamics), the Oto had no issues. Actually, the thunderous tympani strokes at 1:10 are the best I have heard from headphones to date.

Anyway, I definitely prefer the DAVE direct over the Oto overall, plus the background noise is not tolerable for longer listening sessions, so I am afraid my good old audio companion from my University times has to move out of my rack again.

 

[GuyForkes]

Second lesson learned for me: even with a modest 12W on 8Ohm, I had relatively small volume knob rotation available before getting to excessive loudness levels. With the DAVE in pre mode (-3dB fixed volume, 3V output over RCA), I could only use less than 20% of volume.

Obviously, there is more than W and Ohms to consider to project the driving capabilities of a speaker amp to the Abyss. I mean, by simply scaling 12W on 8ohm to 47Ohm (Phi TC impedance) I estimated about 2W of power, i.e. less than the Formula S, but this is obviously not the case ...

Can you experts out there please explain what is going on to this noob here?

This! I have the same question as I'm also looking for a tube power amp for Abyss TC/Susvara. Most tube power amps will output the same amount of power regardless of whether its into 4ohms, 8ohms or 16ohms. But what happens when it's 50ohms or 60ohms? I know SS amp output power is reduced in proportion to the resistance.

Thanks for your impressions simorag. I think the newer amps are a lot more silent. I should soon recieve the adapter which I ordered to allow me to use the Abyss TC with the Stereo 100 which is a modern tube amp. Will report back on the results.

 

[mulder01]

I know SS amp output power is reduced in proportion to the resistance.

I thought it was as simple as ohm's law as well, but this was the specs from my old v281:

2700 mW (600 Ohm)
5600 mW (100 Ohm)
4200 mW (50 Ohm)
2800 mW (32 Ohm)
1500 mW (16 Ohm)

So I guess it's not that straightforward.

I know people carry on about speaker amps - especially for the susvara, but I tried it the other day off a moon 230 (1w into 50 ohms) and I don't think I turned the volume above about half, so I'm not convinced it's necessary.

 

[x RELIC x]

I thought it was as simple as ohm's law as well, but this was the specs from my old v281:

2700 mW (600 Ohm)
5600 mW (100 Ohm)
4200 mW (50 Ohm)
2800 mW (32 Ohm)
1500 mW (16 Ohm)

So I guess it's not that straightforward.

I know people carry on about speaker amps - especially for the susvara, but I tried it the other day off a moon 230 (1w into 50 ohms) and I don't think I turned the volume above about half, so I'm not convinced it's necessary.

Those figures suggest Current limiting under 100 Ohms. Voltage*Current=Power, so if the amp manufacturer limits the Current then the total power will be reduced. Current limiting is more common than generally known.

 

[FLTWS]

I think one of the reasons for using the Powerman has to do with current delivery over the Formula S by itself. And it sounds spectacular to me and not just with the 1266, my Utopia and HD800 have never sounded better than thru the pairing. I also get great results with my PrimaLuna EVO400 that uses all eight power tubes thru the output transformers to drive the the SE hp output but uses a divider network to get the power output levels down to safer levels for driving headphones.

 

[astrostar59]

Interesting. I get no issues with my Aries Cerat Genus, it is totally silent. It has lED volume readout, as relays, not a pot. I tend to run my 95dB speakers at 20 for medium / loud listening level. It goes up to 60 on the scale.

And with my LCD4s plugged into the Genus via the 6.3 SE output socket, I also use 20 for the level - medium / loud listening.

 

[jlbrach]

I think one of the reasons for using the Powerman has to do with current delivery over the Formula S by itself. And it sounds spectacular to me and not just with the 1266, my Utopia and HD800 have never sounded better than thru the pairing. I also get great results with my PrimaLuna EVO400 that uses all eight power tubes thru the output transformers to drive the the SE hp output but uses a divider network to get the power output levels down to safer levels for driving headphones.

I also love the combo....i find it fantastic with the TC and actually a bit overpowering with the LCD-4 although still outstanding.....I am not sure how one could use a powerful amp with the Utopia....the combo is magnificent with the susvara as well....the LCD-4 does well straight out of the dave

 

[astrostar59]

SETs sound best to my ears, and Push Pull behind that. We don't need tons of power obviously, but enough to create the dynamics and depth. IMO I think the components and general SQ on a well designed speaker amp is going to exceed most HP amps. If you have medium to low efficiency cans, then it makes sense to try a speaker amp. But one that has very low residual noise, a pure and simple signal path and purity in the gain stage, of which a SET does that very nicely.

 

[cj3209]

Appreciate the bold people trying out speaker amps for their headphones. I may try it someday but my Broadway headphone amp and 1266 phi cc coupled with the pavane are just a superb match. I'm focusing on the music now...

 

[JLoud]

Any suggestions for a hard shell travel case for the 1266?