The JPS Labs: Abyss AB-1266 Impressions Thread
Jan 10, 2017 at 12:11 AM Post #5,131 of 22,406
Would powering the Abyss with a Mojo be a waste of its potential?

 
I wouldn't let amping concerns stop someone from buying an Abyss.  It's easy to get pressured into thinking you need to spend 5 figures on a dac and amp for it, but after buying mine, I tried powering it will much 'lesser' pieces of gear, just for a laugh, only to discover it was still really good.  Not super fussy audiophile perfect, but still very nice. 
 
Jan 10, 2017 at 9:21 PM Post #5,132 of 22,406
I wouldn't let amping concerns stop someone from buying an Abyss.  It's easy to get pressured into thinking you need to spend 5 figures on a dac and amp for it, but after buying mine, I tried powering it will much 'lesser' pieces of gear, just for a laugh, only to discover it was still really good.  Not super fussy audiophile perfect, but still very nice. 


Yes as i said in my last post you can actually drive the Abyss straight from a Chord Mojo , Hugo or a A&K 120 / 380 player, with a descent result when it comes to resolution, timbre, great mids and some low end actually, but do sound a little flattened and lifeless without any EQ:ing, so the Abyss most of the time are just on idle and does not break a sweat at all from what they can do regardless of the Vol. level under right circumstances with proper gear.
So with a dac like a A&K , Hugo or a Mojo i would recommend to connect it at least to a
Ifi iCan SE amp or a iDSD micro B L for the full blast bloom of dynamics / visceral effects, if we are speaking of the more economical setups.
 
Jan 11, 2017 at 11:06 AM Post #5,133 of 22,406
  Okay, so I've had a little bit of time with the Lotoo PAW Gold Diana edition now.  I'm not a super frequent listener, so it's only been through one battery charge at the moment and I'm not much of a reviewer, so this is just more a few comments on why I like it rather than a traditional in depth review...
 

 
First of all - does a DAP really have enough power to properly drive the Abyss?  Yes.  Yes it does.  With one caveat, which some may find a problem and some may not.  I noted something on two of my test tracks - "Royals" by Lorde and "The Devil Wears A Suit" by Kate Miller-Heidke.  These tracks, at the start, seem like quiet recordings with the vocals a bit lower than the 'normal' volume for a lot of CDs, prompting you to turn it up, but both tracks have deep thumping bass at a level well above the vocals, so if you turn it up to a point where the vocals are loud, proper loud, like you (I) do when auditioning, you get distortion in the bass.  However, these tracks were probably the exception.  I noted on a couple of other bassy electronic music tracks "Do It Again" by Royksopp & Robyn, and a couple of tracks off Daft Punk's "Random Access Memories" - "Get Lucky" and "Instant Crush" that this was not an issue, (different mastering approach?) and I could have it as loud as I would ever listen without any problems.  I was at Xecuter's house the other day and he gave "Royals" a listen and I told him to turn it up loud so he could see what I was talking about.  He didn't get it to distortion levels and looked at me and said "You're listening too loud".  He was probably right.  After my initial testing, I had a bit of a longer listen and realised that my normal listening volume doesn't reach levels high enough to cause a problem anyway, even with the two tracks that I mentioned.  I hope that gives some sort of idea on the limitations of the amp in this unit.  I figured the number one thing people would be interested in, as far as this DAP goes, is "How's the power tho?  Really?"  Hopefully that gives you some sort of idea of where you can draw the line with this unit.  If you listen to rock, for example, and turn the volume up until the VU meter goes into the red from a guitar, that's way above comfortable listening volume for me, so it's not an issue on stuff like AC/DC or Rage Against The Machine.  Or anything else that I listened to for that matter.
 
How does it sound?  Well, sound signature wise, it sounds however you want it to sound... With built in DSP (ATE?) and parametric EQ, you can pretty much tune it to your preferred sound signature.  Both Xecuter and I prefered the "Sweet" ATE setting over the off/standard setting with the Abyss.  It just makes it a bit warmer and more rounded off.  Probably the best recording I have is the album "Ys" by Joanna Newsom which is female voal with an orchestral background and turning the ATE/PMEQ off helps bring out a bit more detail in the orchestra which is nice on that album.  There is a preset named "Dental" if you want it a bit more clinical again, but it's too much for me personally.
 
Sound QUALITY wise, I can't fault it.  As per the disclaimer above, I'm not the most critical listener on the forum so I don't want to comment in detail on every specific aspect of the sound - I haven't done extensive AB testing with a number of other DAC/amp combos so I don't feel confident enough to make very detailed comparisons.  But Mike (HiFiGuy) mentioned in another thread that with the Abyss, the LPG bested the AK380+Amp (at double the price) in pretty much every way, and Xecuter (despite his initial skepticism) said it was the best DAP he had heard.  My desktop amp is a Violectric v281 which I've been very happy with for a couple of years now, with nothing about it making me want to look for another amp.  In fact, I had mentioned to a couple of v281 + WA5 owners that I would like to try/own a WA5 one day and they both told me to basically not bother as there wasn't really much in it.  There are also a number of v281 owners who have made the switch from the highly regarded Moon 430HA.  Pretty much everyone who has tried this amp has been surprised.  Yoga just bought one and said the difference between it and the 600i was 'close' (without having the two side by side though).  Anyway, what I was trying to say was the v281 is a perfectly acceptable end game amp for a lot of people - not just IMO.  Is there a massive difference between the v281 and the LPG Diana?  Not really.  Not for me anyway.  There is still the nice wide Abyss soundstage and the killer low end (with the limitation I mentioned) and gobs of detail.
 
The thing that won me over (that a lot of people think is pointless) is the portability.  I've been waiting a long time for a DAP that I can plug the Abyss straight into without any other auxiliary devices.  I went as far as to get Joe to make me a new Abyss cable 4ft long terminated to a 3.5mm plug to get the full portable experience minus bulky adapters.  I feel like I should add that Joe was great with the whole process - He has been sympathetic to my cause of a portable Abyss setup over the years and has looked after me well.  After I transferred the money on Tuesday night, there was someone knocking on my door with the cable at noon on Friday.  (Last postage day before Christmas).  I know people have been very excited about the new DHC cable, but 5 grand and 5 months wait... I just couldn't justify it.  Anyway, people always think that just because I want a portable player it means I want to wear the Abyss on public transport/ going for a run/ walking the dog etc.  But it's not about that.  For me personally, I just found that I since I bought the Abyss, even though it was better than previous headphones, I used it less because it meant I was chained to the desk, and I found that using a computer as source, I had a lot of distractions in front of me.  I'd put on some music, then one song into my session, I'd remember I had to send an email, or I'd look on the forum or Facebook etc and find myself not really listening intently.  With this player I can take it wherever I want away from distractions and just immerse myself in the music more.  I was laying on the bed the other day with my eyes closed thinking that I was noticing stuff in recordings that I hadn't noticed before.  Is it because the LPG's on board amp is better than the v281?  Probably not.  But because I was more switched off to the outside world, my mind was more focused on the music and I appreciated what I was hearing more.  I also like that it is one device - no adapters, no interconnects, no separate chargers, everything is all in one - it has a long battery life and a percentage readout of how much battery is left.  With other portable solutions I had in the past, you might have 3 devices and a bunch of adapters to carry around, then you finally get settled down to listen and one device goes flat because there is no way to know how much charge is left.  
 
I feel like I should also mention the thing that made me pull the trigger on this is Joe's personal recommendation.  Now, of course the skeptic in all of us would make the link that - well, he has an interest in the product so of course he'd going to tell people it's good.  However, I noticed he posted a photo from a meet a while back of the JPS section of a show.  There were two pairs of Abyss side by side plugged into two LPGs.  To me, that inspired a lot of confidence because people head to these shows to audition gear.  Every company's competition is set up right next to them.  Therefore every manufacturer is going to want to show off their product in the best possible light, because if you are trying to convince people to buy one of the world's most expensive production headphones, you want it to sound as good as possible.  There's dozens of people going to this show and hearing the Abyss for the first time and heading home to share their thoughts to an even broader audience.  So for Joe to be basically saying to people "come and hear the Abyss - here you go" and hand them a pair connected to nothing but a PAW gold, knowing that sales and reputation are riding on it, well, that shows a lot of confidence in the product to me.  Because if it's sub par, people walk away thinking your headphone is just 'ok' when in fact, it was the source letting it down.  
 

 
I'm sure there are people this device will not suit - some people listen to exclusively to piano music or pipe organ music or... whatever and have played this instrument themselves their whole life and have gone through half a dozen amps and/or tubes trying to find the best possible pairing that gives that exact timbre they've been searching for.  Will this player convince those people to sell their setups?  Probably not.  If you listen to mostly streaming services, this is going to be no good to you.  No wifi etc.  But for someone who moves around a lot and doesn't want to cart a desktop setup around from place to place or someone who wants to have a setup for a second room or occasionally sit outside on the deck and enjoy most of what the Abyss has to offer, then this would be ideal.  I, myself, am thinking of using it as my main setup because the benefits outweigh the disadvantages for me (of which I am hard pressed to think of any).  Also, I have discovered that laying on the bed gives me the added advantage of taking the weight off my head, as the bed supports the 'phones.  I'm sure this would be an advantage for many other Abyss users who have weight issues.
 
How can a little player the size of one Abyss earpad possibly sound as good as a desktop setup?  I don't know.  They've crammed a high capacity battery, a UI + screen, a DSD DAC and an amp in there, so you'd expect sonic compromises coming from everywhere but that is not the case.  Maybe the best, noise free power comes from a completely independent DC source.  The best USB cable and interconnect is NO USB cable and interconnect.  Every time you add another link to the chain you add losses?  Don't know.  Point is, I can understand why people would be skeptical of it - look how teeny tiny it is.  But it's really nowhere near as **** as you're probably thinking. :p  Rather the contrary - It really is a nice little piece of kit.  I think a lot of people would be pleasantly surprised.
 
So tldr;
Is nice
I recommend
 

 
I'm getting close to 200 hrs. on my Lotoo Diana Edition. So far, it's been really impressive with every headphones (full-size or IEM). I really enjoy that it forces me into listening to music and not check the internet or Facebook because it doesn't have WiFi. Another thing is since it doesn't show the artwork, I didn't have to OCD and "fix" each album before I can enjoy them after syncing my music. 
 
Jan 14, 2017 at 9:29 PM Post #5,134 of 22,406
Im planning to buy the Abyss. I want to know if you guys think the Cavalli Liquid Glass tube amp will be good enough to drive them (6W into 50 Ohms), or I can do better under let's say $3K? I already own the Glass and like it with many headphones, so if I buy something, it'll be for the Abyss.
 
From a fit perspective, from what I understand, the best is with the earpads lightly touching your head, but not quite covering the ears, and the fat part of the earpads positioned at the bottom when looking at the Abyss upright?
 
Jan 14, 2017 at 10:34 PM Post #5,135 of 22,406
Im planning to buy the Abyss. I want to know if you guys think the Cavalli Liquid Glass tube amp will be good enough to drive them (6W into 50 Ohms), or I can do better under let's say $3K? I already own the Glass and like it with many headphones, so if I buy something, it'll be for the Abyss.

From a fit perspective, from what I understand, the best is with the earpads lightly touching your head, but not quite covering the ears, and the fat part of the earpads positioned at the bottom when looking at the Abyss upright?


I'd at least try it with the Liquid Glass first. It would probably sound awesome with some big, dynamic tubes (IIRC, the Shuguang tubes were great in this regard... I should double check, I'm sure I made a comment about it in the Cavalli upgrade thread). I don't think I ever heard the two together though. I can tell you it matches beautifully with the Liquid Gold.

The earpad positioning is kind of a personal thing. I usually keep the seam around 4 or 5 o'clock, so the thicker part is up top and there is a little more gap at the bottom.

For other options under $3k, I really can't say enough good things about the Wells Milo. It drives the hell out of the Abyss. If you're interested, I reviewed it here: http://enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/1216/Wells_Audio_Milo_Headphone_Amplifier_Review.htm
 
Jan 15, 2017 at 3:24 AM Post #5,136 of 22,406
Ok, so, after thinking about it or about two years and doing absolutely nothing about it, this weekend I decided to make my own headband for the Abyss.  
As you all know, you can't use a normal clamping headband with these headphones because the drivers just have to lightly touch your head.  So I did a bunch of measurements of how I had mine set up (I never really adjust it) and moulded a couple of bands out of acrylic that fit my head and hold the drivers in the right spot for my head.  
Was a fair bit of trial and error trying to get all the angles and distances exactly right, but I think it's worked out to be a very good fit.  
The photos aren't great but I think you get the idea - there's a main internal headband with a doubled over bit of material for padding with some hard rubber/plastic spacers on the end and another thin band over the top to strengthen the ends of the headband that support the driver.  Then I have just used the 3 existing holes in the driver frame that hold them to the standard headband and bolted the drivers onto my own band.  An easily reversible mod if I ever wanted to go back or sell.
 

 
 

 
 

 
 

 
 

 
Shaved about 50g of weight off the stock headband and spread the weight over a larger area of my head so hopefully I can wear them for longer without issues.  Time will tell.  Hopefully it wasn't a weekend wasted.  Obviously this is no good for a production product as it is custom fit to my head and the chances of it being exactly right for someone else are slim.  But that's okay because nobody else listens to it... :p
Looks a bit less frankensteiney too...
 
Jan 15, 2017 at 5:06 AM Post #5,137 of 22,406
  Im planning to buy the Abyss. I want to know if you guys think the Cavalli Liquid Glass tube amp will be good enough to drive them (6W into 50 Ohms), or I can do better under let's say $3K? I already own the Glass and like it with many headphones, so if I buy something, it'll be for the Abyss.
 
From a fit perspective, from what I understand, the best is with the earpads lightly touching your head, but not quite covering the ears, and the fat part of the earpads positioned at the bottom when looking at the Abyss upright?

 
The Violectric V281 drives them wonderfully too. 
 
  Ok, so, after thinking about it or about two years and doing absolutely nothing about it, this weekend I decided to make my own headband for the Abyss.  <snip>

 
Nice work buddy! Looks great.

I love the before and after shots, reminds me of all those weight loss photos you see; #sadface in the first pic, little grin in the second :p
 
Jan 17, 2017 at 10:44 AM Post #5,139 of 22,406
Got a DAVE and Prion4s in last week to match with my still favourite headphone :p
Id say the prion does help smooth out the signature and make it more listenable for extended periods of time.
Really really liking the sound so far :wink:
 
Jan 17, 2017 at 4:01 PM Post #5,140 of 22,406
  Got a DAVE and Prion4s in last week to match with my still favourite headphone :p
Id say the prion does help smooth out the signature and make it more listenable for extended periods of time.
Really really liking the sound so far :wink:


How are you powering the Abyss? Connected straight to the DAVE or do you use an amplifier? Quite curious how this sounds! :)
 
Jan 17, 2017 at 4:21 PM Post #5,141 of 22,406
I don't find the Prion4 smooth sound at all...
 
Jan 17, 2017 at 6:01 PM Post #5,143 of 22,406
The Prion4 with my setup (Vitus/Headtrip/Abyss) do not give any smooth sound, I can find on it a lot of dynamic, detail, very powerful and clean bass and first of all a fantastic soundstage and separation of the instruments and voices... This respect to the stock jps cable...
 
Jan 17, 2017 at 10:01 PM Post #5,144 of 22,406
Yes= the the Headtrips own signature shines through here, i know because i have previously owned the same setup ( not the Vitus CD-player but MSB Analog / DAVE / Aurender as a source) and i find the Prion 4 to be very smooth sounding with a nice shimmering resolution without any harshness at all and you will notice that if you try it on a diffrent setup vs Stock cable or other after market ditos.

:thumbsup:
 
Jan 17, 2017 at 11:02 PM Post #5,145 of 22,406
 
How are you powering the Abyss? Connected straight to the DAVE or do you use an amplifier? Quite curious how this sounds! :)

Yes direct out of the DAVE.I used to use the abyss with a ragnarok and WA5
But due to recent space constrains , i had to sell both of those lmao. 
Even though it doesnt quite have the amazing visceral and engaging presentation that will come with a more powerful amp, Id say direct out of the DAVE is a pairing i can live with. I find the DAVEs internal amp to be liquidy sweet and organic and from memory, i dont think ive ever heard the abyss sounding this clean and transparent. Was using the stock cables all the while which i found to be relatively more punchy and grainy. With the prion, music just flows effortlessly. 
Im not very good at describing sound signatures but I tried :p
Will venture back into big amps in the future, but right now i need a compact setup.
 

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