The JPS Labs: Abyss AB-1266 Impressions Thread
Jan 4, 2017 at 5:43 AM Post #5,116 of 22,388
they sounded more like exceptional headphones to me than loudpeakers

 
Hey!  It must have been like 6 months since I last saw you in this thread.  Then suddenly, as soon as someone mentions headphones being like speakers, BAM!  He's back in like a jug of kool aid bursting through the wall.
 
 
 
...I'm going to add 'lolz', even though I feel like it was implied.
 
Jan 4, 2017 at 12:19 PM Post #5,118 of 22,388
they sounded more like exceptional headphones to me than loudpeakers


I agree.
I posted somewhere else:
In my opinion, nothing like speakers at all.
I own the Utopia and it has nothing to do with speakers. 
Yes the Utopia bests any speakers in terms of resolution, but sound stage, imaging and separation NO WAY. Speakers are speakers PERIOD. 
But let me confirm that the Utopia disappears after 10 min of listening, how? 
It feels that both drivers are connected, where music flows IN BETWEEN your ears. Goddam it I can not describe it!
Let me try again, it feels like music flowing across your head, where there is no sense of left driver and right driver. BUT still the sound comes from the sides of your head NOT from the front like any other 2 channels stereo system. 
 
Jan 4, 2017 at 12:21 PM Post #5,119 of 22,388
   
I would be quite surprised if someone said the Utopia is warmer sounding than the Abyss 
biggrin.gif


The Utopia is my limit in brightness and this is why I want to make sure that the Abyss is NOT brighter by any mean. I am too close to pull the trigger on the Abyss. 
 
Jan 4, 2017 at 12:30 PM Post #5,120 of 22,388
   
I would be quite surprised if someone said the Utopia is warmer sounding than the Abyss 
biggrin.gif

 
After burn in i do think the Utopia is warmer than the Abyss. The utopias have a more warm, lush, full bodied tone to my ears. Vs the abyss which whiles more expansive sounding, is more aggressive in both the high and low registers.
 
Jan 4, 2017 at 12:52 PM Post #5,121 of 22,388
 
  Which is warmer, Utopia or Abyss? 
Thanks
 

 
Quote:
  I so need to try the Utopia, people say it was designed like speakers.
I have heard the Abyss which is phenomenal, I can only think what the Utopia's would be.
 

 
There's a lot of excitement around the Utopia, which is understandable considering they are the latest pretenders at the "better/best" headphones title. That said I found nothing like speakers about them other than they reproduce sound in a relatively linear way. Or any other headphones for the matter. The most stand-out features about speakers compared to headphones, including Utopia and the Abyss, imo are:
- the way they image (two channel sound originating in front of the listener from significant space)
- recreate a much more realistic soundstage and much truer to scale sound 
- physicality of sound waves more akeen to both amplified live or recording studio sound (they use speakers doh) or acoustic concerts. I can see a parallel some could try to make here, but I don't agree with this. Pulsating ear lobe waves is not at all the same thing.
 
YMMV somewhat depending on details.
 
Following that introduction, one of the great weaknesses the Utopia have, is their stage is very small, even for flagship headphones standards. Utopia staging is more akeen to some really good closed headphones. The Abyss sound more spatious and open. The Utopia stage can be described as tunnel like: narrow, but very deep. Some really dig this aspect. I am a little biased against any headphones staging because of speakers listening, so I try to keep an open mind, but even so, the Utopia sounded a bit too damn small for a flagship.
 
In regards to timbre, Utopia have a specific coloration, unlike any other headphones (probably due to the Be driver material). I prefer the Abyss or most planars in this regard. However where the Utopia are better imo, is in how clear and precise they sound and how well they can image despite the small stage they have.

 
  The Utopia imo are neither warm nor bright, they are very close to neutral. I prefer a neutral sound, and the Abyss are in the same ballpark too. If someone likes the Abyss I don't see why they wouldn't like the tonality of the Utopia. The Abyss felt edgier in the treble, whereas the Utopia had a 3-6k dip, then a peak, but overall quite smooth. The Utopia don't match the energy and viscerality some planars are capable of. 
 
Jan 4, 2017 at 6:53 PM Post #5,123 of 22,388
 
The Utopia is my limit in brightness and this is why I want to make sure that the Abyss is NOT brighter by any mean. I am too close to pull the trigger on the Abyss. 

 
From your collection, I would have said that the LCD3 and HD800 are a lot more in-your-face sounding.  The Abyss have a more relaxed sound than those two IMO.  The LCD-4 is even more relaxed again.  Don't know where the Utopia fits into that though.
 
If you have found something to enjoy out of every headphone in your signature so far, but don't find anything to like about the Abyss, I will be floored, because for me it was the opposite - after I heard the Abyss, I couldn't find anything to like about any of the other flagships I had tried.  
 
Different strokes 'n that tho...
 
Jan 6, 2017 at 4:12 AM Post #5,124 of 22,388
Okay, so I've had a little bit of time with the Lotoo PAW Gold Diana edition now.  I'm not a super frequent listener, so it's only been through one battery charge at the moment and I'm not much of a reviewer, so this is just more a few comments on why I like it rather than a traditional in depth review...
 

 
First of all - does a DAP really have enough power to properly drive the Abyss?  Yes.  Yes it does.  With one caveat, which some may find a problem and some may not.  I noted something on two of my test tracks - "Royals" by Lorde and "The Devil Wears A Suit" by Kate Miller-Heidke.  These tracks, at the start, seem like quiet recordings with the vocals a bit lower than the 'normal' volume for a lot of CDs, prompting you to turn it up, but both tracks have deep thumping bass at a level well above the vocals, so if you turn it up to a point where the vocals are loud, proper loud, like you (I) do when auditioning, you get distortion in the bass.  However, these tracks were probably the exception.  I noted on a couple of other bassy electronic music tracks "Do It Again" by Royksopp & Robyn, and a couple of tracks off Daft Punk's "Random Access Memories" - "Get Lucky" and "Instant Crush" that this was not an issue, (different mastering approach?) and I could have it as loud as I would ever listen without any problems.  I was at Xecuter's house the other day and he gave "Royals" a listen and I told him to turn it up loud so he could see what I was talking about.  He didn't get it to distortion levels and looked at me and said "You're listening too loud".  He was probably right.  After my initial testing, I had a bit of a longer listen and realised that my normal listening volume doesn't reach levels high enough to cause a problem anyway, even with the two tracks that I mentioned.  I hope that gives some sort of idea on the limitations of the amp in this unit.  I figured the number one thing people would be interested in, as far as this DAP goes, is "How's the power tho?  Really?"  Hopefully that gives you some sort of idea of where you can draw the line with this unit.  If you listen to rock, for example, and turn the volume up until the VU meter goes into the red from a guitar, that's way above comfortable listening volume for me, so it's not an issue on stuff like AC/DC or Rage Against The Machine.  Or anything else that I listened to for that matter.
 
How does it sound?  Well, sound signature wise, it sounds however you want it to sound... With built in DSP (ATE?) and parametric EQ, you can pretty much tune it to your preferred sound signature.  Both Xecuter and I prefered the "Sweet" ATE setting over the off/standard setting with the Abyss.  It just makes it a bit warmer and more rounded off.  Probably the best recording I have is the album "Ys" by Joanna Newsom which is female voal with an orchestral background and turning the ATE/PMEQ off helps bring out a bit more detail in the orchestra which is nice on that album.  There is a preset named "Dental" if you want it a bit more clinical again, but it's too much for me personally.
 
Sound QUALITY wise, I can't fault it.  As per the disclaimer above, I'm not the most critical listener on the forum so I don't want to comment in detail on every specific aspect of the sound - I haven't done extensive AB testing with a number of other DAC/amp combos so I don't feel confident enough to make very detailed comparisons.  But Mike (HiFiGuy) mentioned in another thread that with the Abyss, the LPG bested the AK380+Amp (at double the price) in pretty much every way, and Xecuter (despite his initial skepticism) said it was the best DAP he had heard.  My desktop amp is a Violectric v281 which I've been very happy with for a couple of years now, with nothing about it making me want to look for another amp.  In fact, I had mentioned to a couple of v281 + WA5 owners that I would like to try/own a WA5 one day and they both told me to basically not bother as there wasn't really much in it.  There are also a number of v281 owners who have made the switch from the highly regarded Moon 430HA.  Pretty much everyone who has tried this amp has been surprised.  Yoga just bought one and said the difference between it and the 600i was 'close' (without having the two side by side though).  Anyway, what I was trying to say was the v281 is a perfectly acceptable end game amp for a lot of people - not just IMO.  Is there a massive difference between the v281 and the LPG Diana?  Not really.  Not for me anyway.  There is still the nice wide Abyss soundstage and the killer low end (with the limitation I mentioned) and gobs of detail.
 
The thing that won me over (that a lot of people think is pointless) is the portability.  I've been waiting a long time for a DAP that I can plug the Abyss straight into without any other auxiliary devices.  I went as far as to get Joe to make me a new Abyss cable 4ft long terminated to a 3.5mm plug to get the full portable experience minus bulky adapters.  I feel like I should add that Joe was great with the whole process - He has been sympathetic to my cause of a portable Abyss setup over the years and has looked after me well.  After I transferred the money on Tuesday night, there was someone knocking on my door with the cable at noon on Friday.  (Last postage day before Christmas).  I know people have been very excited about the new DHC cable, but 5 grand and 5 months wait... I just couldn't justify it.  Anyway, people always think that just because I want a portable player it means I want to wear the Abyss on public transport/ going for a run/ walking the dog etc.  But it's not about that.  For me personally, I just found that I since I bought the Abyss, even though it was better than previous headphones, I used it less because it meant I was chained to the desk, and I found that using a computer as source, I had a lot of distractions in front of me.  I'd put on some music, then one song into my session, I'd remember I had to send an email, or I'd look on the forum or Facebook etc and find myself not really listening intently.  With this player I can take it wherever I want away from distractions and just immerse myself in the music more.  I was laying on the bed the other day with my eyes closed thinking that I was noticing stuff in recordings that I hadn't noticed before.  Is it because the LPG's on board amp is better than the v281?  Probably not.  But because I was more switched off to the outside world, my mind was more focused on the music and I appreciated what I was hearing more.  I also like that it is one device - no adapters, no interconnects, no separate chargers, everything is all in one - it has a long battery life and a percentage readout of how much battery is left.  With other portable solutions I had in the past, you might have 3 devices and a bunch of adapters to carry around, then you finally get settled down to listen and one device goes flat because there is no way to know how much charge is left.  
 
I feel like I should also mention the thing that made me pull the trigger on this is Joe's personal recommendation.  Now, of course the skeptic in all of us would make the link that - well, he has an interest in the product so of course he'd going to tell people it's good.  However, I noticed he posted a photo from a meet a while back of the JPS section of a show.  There were two pairs of Abyss side by side plugged into two LPGs.  To me, that inspired a lot of confidence because people head to these shows to audition gear.  Every company's competition is set up right next to them.  Therefore every manufacturer is going to want to show off their product in the best possible light, because if you are trying to convince people to buy one of the world's most expensive production headphones, you want it to sound as good as possible.  There's dozens of people going to this show and hearing the Abyss for the first time and heading home to share their thoughts to an even broader audience.  So for Joe to be basically saying to people "come and hear the Abyss - here you go" and hand them a pair connected to nothing but a PAW gold, knowing that sales and reputation are riding on it, well, that shows a lot of confidence in the product to me.  Because if it's sub par, people walk away thinking your headphone is just 'ok' when in fact, it was the source letting it down.  
 

 
I'm sure there are people this device will not suit - some people listen to exclusively to piano music or pipe organ music or... whatever and have played this instrument themselves their whole life and have gone through half a dozen amps and/or tubes trying to find the best possible pairing that gives that exact timbre they've been searching for.  Will this player convince those people to sell their setups?  Probably not.  If you listen to mostly streaming services, this is going to be no good to you.  No wifi etc.  But for someone who moves around a lot and doesn't want to cart a desktop setup around from place to place or someone who wants to have a setup for a second room or occasionally sit outside on the deck and enjoy most of what the Abyss has to offer, then this would be ideal.  I, myself, am thinking of using it as my main setup because the benefits outweigh the disadvantages for me (of which I am hard pressed to think of any).  Also, I have discovered that laying on the bed gives me the added advantage of taking the weight off my head, as the bed supports the 'phones.  I'm sure this would be an advantage for many other Abyss users who have weight issues.
 
How can a little player the size of one Abyss earpad possibly sound as good as a desktop setup?  I don't know.  They've crammed a high capacity battery, a UI + screen, a DSD DAC and an amp in there, so you'd expect sonic compromises coming from everywhere but that is not the case.  Maybe the best, noise free power comes from a completely independent DC source.  The best USB cable and interconnect is NO USB cable and interconnect.  Every time you add another link to the chain you add losses?  Don't know.  Point is, I can understand why people would be skeptical of it - look how teeny tiny it is.  But it's really nowhere near as **** as you're probably thinking. :p  Rather the contrary - It really is a nice little piece of kit.  I think a lot of people would be pleasantly surprised.
 
So tldr;
Is nice
I recommend
 

 
Jan 6, 2017 at 8:19 AM Post #5,127 of 22,388
Okay, so I've had a little bit of time with the Lotoo PAW Gold Diana edition now.  I'm not a super frequent listener, so it's only been through one battery charge at the moment and I'm not much of a reviewer, so this is just more a few comments on why I like it rather than a traditional in depth review...




First of all - does a DAP really have enough power to properly drive the Abyss?  Yes.  Yes it does.  With one caveat, which some may find a problem and some may not.  I noted something on two of my test tracks - "Royals" by Lorde and "The Devil Wears A Suit" by Kate Miller-Heidke.  These tracks, at the start, seem like quiet recordings with the vocals a bit lower than the 'normal' volume for a lot of CDs, prompting you to turn it up, but both tracks have deep thumping bass at a level well above the vocals, so if you turn it up to a point where the vocals are loud, proper loud, like you (I) do when auditioning, you get distortion in the bass.  However, these tracks were probably the exception.  I noted on a couple of other bassy electronic music tracks "Do It Again" by Royksopp & Robyn, and a couple of tracks off Daft Punk's "Random Access Memories" - "Get Lucky" and "Instant Crush" that this was not an issue, (different mastering approach?) and I could have it as loud as I would ever listen without any problems.  I was at Xecuter's house the other day and he gave "Royals" a listen and I told him to turn it up loud so he could see what I was talking about.  He didn't get it to distortion levels and looked at me and said "You're listening too loud".  He was probably right.  After my initial testing, I had a bit of a longer listen and realised that my normal listening volume doesn't reach levels high enough to cause a problem anyway, even with the two tracks that I mentioned.  I hope that gives some sort of idea on the limitations of the amp in this unit.  I figured the number one thing people would be interested in, as far as this DAP goes, is "How's the power tho?  Really?"  Hopefully that gives you some sort of idea of where you can draw the line with this unit.  If you listen to rock, for example, and turn the volume up until the VU meter goes into the red from a guitar, that's way above comfortable listening volume for me, so it's not an issue on stuff like AC/DC or Rage Against The Machine.  Or anything else that I listened to for that matter.

How does it sound?  Well, sound signature wise, it sounds however you want it to sound... With built in DSP (ATE?) and parametric EQ, you can pretty much tune it to your preferred sound signature.  Both Xecuter and I prefered the "Sweet" ATE setting over the off/standard setting with the Abyss.  It just makes it a bit warmer and more rounded off.  Probably the best recording I have is the album "Ys" by Joanna Newsom which is female voal with an orchestral background and turning the ATE/PMEQ off helps bring out a bit more detail in the orchestra which is nice on that album.  There is a preset named "Dental" if you want it a bit more clinical again, but it's too much for me personally.

Sound QUALITY wise, I can't fault it.  As per the disclaimer above, I'm not the most critical listener on the forum so I don't want to comment in detail on every specific aspect of the sound - I haven't done extensive AB testing with a number of other DAC/amp combos so I don't feel confident enough to make very detailed comparisons.  But Mike (HiFiGuy) mentioned in another thread that with the Abyss, the LPG bested the AK380+Amp (at double the price) in pretty much every way, and Xecuter (despite his initial skepticism) said it was the best DAP he had heard.  My desktop amp is a Violectric v281 which I've been very happy with for a couple of years now, with nothing about it making me want to look for another amp.  In fact, I had mentioned to a couple of v281 + WA5 owners that I would like to try/own a WA5 one day and they both told me to basically not bother as there wasn't really much in it.  There are also a number of v281 owners who have made the switch from the highly regarded Moon 430HA.  Pretty much everyone who has tried this amp has been surprised.  Yoga just bought one and said the difference between it and the 600i was 'close' (without having the two side by side though).  Anyway, what I was trying to say was the v281 is a perfectly acceptable end game amp for a lot of people - not just IMO.  Is there a massive difference between the v281 and the LPG Diana?  Not really.  Not for me anyway.  There is still the nice wide Abyss soundstage and the killer low end (with the limitation I mentioned) and gobs of detail.

The thing that won me over (that a lot of people think is pointless) is the portability.  I've been waiting a long time for a DAP that I can plug the Abyss straight into without any other auxiliary devices.  I went as far as to get Joe to make me a new Abyss cable 4ft long terminated to a 3.5mm plug to get the full portable experience minus bulky adapters.  I feel like I should add that Joe was great with the whole process - He has been sympathetic to my cause of a portable Abyss setup over the years and has looked after me well.  After I transferred the money on Tuesday night, there was someone knocking on my door with the cable at noon on Friday.  (Last postage day before Christmas).  I know people have been very excited about the new DHC cable, but 5 grand and 5 months wait... I just couldn't justify it.  Anyway, people always think that just because I want a portable player it means I want to wear the Abyss on public transport/ going for a run/ walking the dog etc.  But it's not about that.  For me personally, I just found that I since I bought the Abyss, even though it was better than previous headphones, I used it less because it meant I was chained to the desk, and I found that using a computer as source, I had a lot of distractions in front of me.  I'd put on some music, then one song into my session, I'd remember I had to send an email, or I'd look on the forum or Facebook etc and find myself not really listening intently.  With this player I can take it wherever I want away from distractions and just immerse myself in the music more.  I was laying on the bed the other day with my eyes closed thinking that I was noticing stuff in recordings that I hadn't noticed before.  Is it because the LPG's on board amp is better than the v281?  Probably not.  But because I was more switched off to the outside world, my mind was more focused on the music and I appreciated what I was hearing more.  I also like that it is one device - no adapters, no interconnects, no separate chargers, everything is all in one - it has a long battery life and a percentage readout of how much battery is left.  With other portable solutions I had in the past, you might have 3 devices and a bunch of adapters to carry around, then you finally get settled down to listen and one device goes flat because there is no way to know how much charge is left.  

I feel like I should also mention the thing that made me pull the trigger on this is Joe's personal recommendation.  Now, of course the skeptic in all of us would make the link that - well, he has an interest in the product so of course he'd going to tell people it's good.  However, I noticed he posted a photo from a meet a while back of the JPS section of a show.  There were two pairs of Abyss side by side plugged into two LPGs.  To me, that inspired a lot of confidence because people head to these shows to audition gear.  Every company's competition is set up right next to them.  Therefore every manufacturer is going to want to show off their product in the best possible light, because if you are trying to convince people to buy one of the world's most expensive production headphones, you want it to sound as good as possible.  There's dozens of people going to this show and hearing the Abyss for the first time and heading home to share their thoughts to an even broader audience.  So for Joe to be basically saying to people "come and hear the Abyss - here you go" and hand them a pair connected to nothing but a PAW gold, knowing that sales and reputation are riding on it, well, that shows a lot of confidence in the product to me.  Because if it's sub par, people walk away thinking your headphone is just 'ok' when in fact, it was the source letting it down.  




I'm sure there are people this device will not suit - some people listen to exclusively to piano music or pipe organ music or... whatever and have played this instrument themselves their whole life and have gone through half a dozen amps and/or tubes trying to find the best possible pairing that gives that exact timbre they've been searching for.  Will this player convince those people to sell their setups?  Probably not.  If you listen to mostly streaming services, this is going to be no good to you.  No wifi etc.  But for someone who moves around a lot and doesn't want to cart a desktop setup around from place to place or someone who wants to have a setup for a second room or occasionally sit outside on the deck and enjoy most of what the Abyss has to offer, then this would be ideal.  I, myself, am thinking of using it as my main setup because the benefits outweigh the disadvantages for me (of which I am hard pressed to think of any).  Also, I have discovered that laying on the bed gives me the added advantage of taking the weight off my head, as the bed supports the 'phones.  I'm sure this would be an advantage for many other Abyss users who have weight issues.

How can a little player the size of one Abyss earpad possibly sound as good as a desktop setup?  I don't know.  They've crammed a high capacity battery, a UI + screen, a DSD DAC and an amp in there, so you'd expect sonic compromises coming from everywhere but that is not the case.  Maybe the best, noise free power comes from a completely independent DC source.  The best USB cable and interconnect is NO USB cable and interconnect.  Every time you add another link to the chain you add losses?  Don't know.  Point is, I can understand why people would be skeptical of it - look how teeny tiny it is.  But it's really nowhere near as **** as you're probably thinking. :p  Rather the contrary - It really is a nice little piece of kit.  I think a lot of people would be pleasantly surprised.

So tldr;
Is nice

I recommend

 



Very impressive and a easy understandable write-up on how it sounds and performe!

If it only had got a wifi and Tidal MQA , maybe they will be forced to introduce that in upcoming editions.
And what about balanced output on the Gold.


Another micro-setup if you had a 3,5mm stereo jack instead of 4-pin XLR with some adapters, this setup is one of the smallest, but the AQ RED 2.1v output can just play the Abyss to about 50-65% tops, then on the last volume step it starts to distort. :wink:


 
Jan 9, 2017 at 11:51 AM Post #5,129 of 22,388
Would powering the Abyss with a Mojo be a waste of its potential?

Depends on how loud you listen. I power my Abyss with a Mojo sometimes and it sounds great, but it can be better. If you like to listen at louder(ish) levels, you will likely run into clipping issues with the Mojo. I've found the Abyss really do benefit from some good power behind them, so if you had a desktop set up as well as the Mojo that would be preferable. I think it was mulder01 who said, and I'm paraphrasing here, "an underdriven Abyss is better than no Abyss at all." I agree with that. YMMV and all that though :)
 
Jan 9, 2017 at 7:45 PM Post #5,130 of 22,388
Would powering the Abyss with a Mojo be a waste of its potential?


Yes, you can, i got a few mojo's laying around and you loose some dynamic and the soundstage are a bit narrow and thin in comparison if you connect the Mojo to a amp with great Current Amping power or choose the new Ifi iDSD Black Label with huge power and big low end dynamics with great control.

The integrated DAC in the new Black Label is not as musical and the timing is not on pair with Mojo, it got a diffrent presentation, with more details, but Mojo got better resolution depht and feels more real. One drawback with the iDSD B L is the analog none bit perfect volume control where you are loosing slight transparancy to the source.

But if i was stranded on a lonely island ( Think Castaway) and i had to choose one DAC/AMP product for my Abyss with these contesters: Mojo / Hugo or iDSD Black Label, i would choose the Black Label all day long.., because its more fun to listen to and you do not get any listening fatigue, and moves you with the great rhythm with its slightly warmer big dynamic "High-End-feel" sound=
Great synergy with the Abyss.

Can highly recommend this new product as a compliment and more moving-around friendly :sunglasses:


Did a fun test to connect the Mojo to the Analog input on the Ifi with a great result.

 

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