Will try to post early impressions on the 25th
Cayin N8ii: The Incredible DAP with ROHM DAC and fully BAL Nutube
- Thread starter Andykong
- Start date
The word on the streets is that the WM1ZM2 is disappointing for the price. (well a few of my die hard audiophile nerds). They say despite all the new materials and changes the sound is literally not much changed from the previous one and some even prefer the older one. Most prefer to buy the older one and mod it, saving you mega $$. Saying this, everyone's taste is personal.Will try to post early impressions on the 25th
I finally find out the detail about the charging mechanism that cause the problems we have encountered.
First of all, @Whitigir and @davidmolliere are right, the problem is a protection mechanism triggered by the temperature of the N8ii. When the N8ii power management software detected a higher than normal operation temperatue, it will try to do something to lower the temperature and among that, disconnecting the charging current is one of them. The trigger point of this protection mechanism is 50 degree C. The power management software will monitor the internal temperature continuously, when the temperature drop below the safety margin, it will resume charging. So you don't need to disconnect the charger from N8ii to trigger the charging handshake again.
Both Class A and P+ might present a high risk to trigger the protection mechanism when you charge and playback at the same time, especially when you playback high sampling file or driving a demanding load. Tube or Solid State is not as significant when compare to Class A or P+. I have conduct a charging test with Class A earlier on, but since I didn't put on the leather case, the temperature of N8ii has barely escaped the protection mechanism. If you must charge and playback at the same time, stick with Class AB in standard P mode, or improve the ventalation of your N8ii, be reminded the N8ii chassis is a big piece of heat zink to the circuitry in the DAP, So its like adding a fan to the heat zink of your CPU to make sure the system can remain efficent even at high temperature.
Having said that, even when you are not charging and playback at the same time, you still need to be aware of the protection mechanism. The N8ii can can reach 50 degree C if you put the DAP in a small consealed unventilated space (such as your backpack) and playback in demainding settings such as Class A and P+ mode. Ultimately when the power management software has tried all options but the temperature continues to rise, it will shut down the player.
Since we are on the topic of charging, I would like to confirm that N8ii supports PD and QC3.0 fast charging protocol. It will consume up to 18W charging only, so a 30W or 60W PD/QC3.0 charger will not charge it any faster beyond 18W charging capacities. These high power USB charge are benefited when you need to charge multiple devices at the same time.
I'll include this in the N8ii FAQ at page 1, hopefully this will steer users away from similar problem.
PS.
The proection mechanism is NOT A BUG, we don't have any immediate plan to remove the proection mechanism or raise the bar so that users can charge and playback at a higher temperature. If you google for more detail, you should notice the permissible charge temperatures range of Lithium-ion battery is 0°C to 45°C (32°F to 113°F). Li-ion performs well at elevated temperatures but prolonged exposure to heat reduces longevity. Charging and discharging at elevated temperatures is subject to gas generation that might cause a cylindrical cell to vent and a pouch cell to swell. Many chargers prohibit charging above 50°C (122°F). The 50 degree C is an engineering benchmark and we think it is important to set a safety operation boundary by engineering principle. (cf Battery University)
Officially, we recommend users to avoid charge and playback at the same time. We have maintain this practise for all our battery powered products including DAP and portable amplifiers. Yes, it won't blow up or damage your DAP right in front of you, but the adverse effect will show eventually if you do this regularly. Our advice is in line with many mobile phone companies and technical writers such as HERE and HERE.
First of all, @Whitigir and @davidmolliere are right, the problem is a protection mechanism triggered by the temperature of the N8ii. When the N8ii power management software detected a higher than normal operation temperatue, it will try to do something to lower the temperature and among that, disconnecting the charging current is one of them. The trigger point of this protection mechanism is 50 degree C. The power management software will monitor the internal temperature continuously, when the temperature drop below the safety margin, it will resume charging. So you don't need to disconnect the charger from N8ii to trigger the charging handshake again.
Both Class A and P+ might present a high risk to trigger the protection mechanism when you charge and playback at the same time, especially when you playback high sampling file or driving a demanding load. Tube or Solid State is not as significant when compare to Class A or P+. I have conduct a charging test with Class A earlier on, but since I didn't put on the leather case, the temperature of N8ii has barely escaped the protection mechanism. If you must charge and playback at the same time, stick with Class AB in standard P mode, or improve the ventalation of your N8ii, be reminded the N8ii chassis is a big piece of heat zink to the circuitry in the DAP, So its like adding a fan to the heat zink of your CPU to make sure the system can remain efficent even at high temperature.
Having said that, even when you are not charging and playback at the same time, you still need to be aware of the protection mechanism. The N8ii can can reach 50 degree C if you put the DAP in a small consealed unventilated space (such as your backpack) and playback in demainding settings such as Class A and P+ mode. Ultimately when the power management software has tried all options but the temperature continues to rise, it will shut down the player.
Since we are on the topic of charging, I would like to confirm that N8ii supports PD and QC3.0 fast charging protocol. It will consume up to 18W charging only, so a 30W or 60W PD/QC3.0 charger will not charge it any faster beyond 18W charging capacities. These high power USB charge are benefited when you need to charge multiple devices at the same time.
I'll include this in the N8ii FAQ at page 1, hopefully this will steer users away from similar problem.
PS.
The proection mechanism is NOT A BUG, we don't have any immediate plan to remove the proection mechanism or raise the bar so that users can charge and playback at a higher temperature. If you google for more detail, you should notice the permissible charge temperatures range of Lithium-ion battery is 0°C to 45°C (32°F to 113°F). Li-ion performs well at elevated temperatures but prolonged exposure to heat reduces longevity. Charging and discharging at elevated temperatures is subject to gas generation that might cause a cylindrical cell to vent and a pouch cell to swell. Many chargers prohibit charging above 50°C (122°F). The 50 degree C is an engineering benchmark and we think it is important to set a safety operation boundary by engineering principle. (cf Battery University)
Officially, we recommend users to avoid charge and playback at the same time. We have maintain this practise for all our battery powered products including DAP and portable amplifiers. Yes, it won't blow up or damage your DAP right in front of you, but the adverse effect will show eventually if you do this regularly. Our advice is in line with many mobile phone companies and technical writers such as HERE and HERE.
Last edited:
Same here. I tried Tidal, didn't like it because 95% chinese songs and artist are in pinyin instead of using actual Chinese characters, making it almost impossible to search a title. Since Qobuz is not available, so I stick with Spotify and local service such as KKBox.
Not a lot of streaming choice once you go outside the English speaker music world.
Doug2507
Headphoneus Supremus
It'll charge with PD but not rapidly. I've tried 3 different pd chargers (2 Sammy and the one I linked to on amazon), all 3 charge but slowly. I did notice that it looks temperamental though and flicked between slow/normal/fast a few times before settling on slow. That was after draining battery and player was still warm. I'll try PD again when cold. My laptop can fast charge from usb a and c but a was slow and c was fast, no idea why. Usb a from amazon charger works fine though. Either way, not struggling to keep it charge and enjoy the music!
I did have a weird issue briefly with the play / pause button. It would only engage pause when held in. Restarted and issue went away. (Was either cayin or hiby, can't remember which one)
One query though, after scanning again using hiby I ended up with duplicate tracks....?
And to finish on a positive, still amazed by the sound this thing makes. Absolutely superb and getting even better as time marches on. Well done Cayin!
I did have a weird issue briefly with the play / pause button. It would only engage pause when held in. Restarted and issue went away. (Was either cayin or hiby, can't remember which one)
One query though, after scanning again using hiby I ended up with duplicate tracks....?
And to finish on a positive, still amazed by the sound this thing makes. Absolutely superb and getting even better as time marches on. Well done Cayin!
Last edited:
VancityDreaming
100+ Head-Fier
Things are about to get spicy
, lets see if cayin can dethrone Sony.
Dethrone Sony? I think they lost that race a long time ago... (sorry).Things are about to get spicy
For me, it's DMP-Z1 or bust. But then we are talking about DMP vs other desktop amps.
True, and it's already more or less desktop dimensions as it is, so you might as well get a Dave or a TT2/Mscaler for same price and call it a day.
Tonight will be fun
What is the current street price for DMP-Z1? Comparable to N8ii + C9 or N6ii(A02) + C9? I beleive they are more powerful than Cayin DAPs, so adding C9 make sense if we want to involve DMP-Z1 in our comparison.
$8.5k. The DMP-Z1 "only" has 1,500mW at 16Ω vs C9's 4,100mW at 16Ω....
I only find out N8ii is compatible with PD quick charger yesterday, since I don't have any PD charger aound, I can only relies on feedback from other N8ii users.
Sticky button? Does it happen repeatedly, or one-off?
If you run into duplicated titles in your library, take out the TF card and perform a re-scan, that should clear the cache and when you insert your TF card and scan again, the problem should be solvedd. I have seen very scattered report like that with N6ii, very scattered. We can't replicate at our lab., so we couldn't figure out the cause behind that.
I confirm, Traillii + First Times cable and N8ii Tube, AB, P+ are just insane good.
First song with it and I am just blown away, the detail and texture with the bass, no words.
First song with it and I am just blown away, the detail and texture with the bass, no words.
111MilesToGo
500+ Head-Fier
Hi @Andykong and all Asian music lovers, easy to understand that you miss Qobuz in your countries.
From what I read on their website, they are pursuing an international expansion strategy. And they know Asia has a lot of serious and audiophile music lovers. For example, they report to have acquired e-onkyo, a big Japanese hi-res download platform, effective this April. Maybe there are several more steps which I missed when taking a short look at their news section.
Here is an idea: It doesn‘t hurt to approach them directly, tell them your desires, remind them how much business they leave on the floor (and unfortunately lose to Tidal), and maybe tell them how you would like a streaming platform to look and feel in China or elsewhere in Asia.
Of course, one can write e-mails to some ”info“ mail accounts. But there is a way to approach Qobuz officials directly: On the ”Audiophile Style“ forum.
Website: https://audiophilestyle.com/
The Qobuz thread is at: https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/46611-official-qobuz-issues-thread/#comment-851887
It is titled ”Qobuz issues“, but has developed into a more general thread including many suggestions by their users.
You will have to register with Audiophile Style in order to post.
There are two Qobuz men on this thread, reading and interacting regularly. One is David Craff (written as ”@David Craff“ without the quotes, note the space), who is acting as a general caretaker. The other is Dan Mackta (written as ”@dmackta“), who is the Qobuz General Manager for the U.S. So he is the topmost person one can approach without looking up the Qobuz Board and Executives. Mr. Mackta is there less regularly than Mr. Craff who is there almost daily.
Maybe this idea of approaching Qobuz officials is useful. As said, it doesn‘t hurt to present your desires, ideas, preferences and whatsoever directly, time and again. Sure, they might say ”we are working on it“, ”matter of licensing by the record companies“, ”matter of translating apps, metadata etc“.
Maybe it is a good idea for you to post on that thread.
Maybe it turns out bad when a flood of posts shows up.
Maybe mentioning this thread is a tip for everyone.
Users who are viewing this thread
