[JustJoseph]

I feel that the flc8 is somewhat over hyped. Yes, it's a very good product with excellent tuning options and nice mids, but I dont like how it's hyped to the point where other viable alternatives are seen as inferior.

 

[ArrancarV]

Folks, I'm hoping you can help me narrow down my short-list of hybrid IEMs to a single one for purchase.  I'm also not adverse to considering others not on my list (see criteria below):

* Dunu DN-2002
* Flc 8s
* Oriveti Primacy
* IBasso Audio IT03
* Sony XBA (either A2 or H3)

About me:
I consider myself a 'casual audiophile' in that I like crystal clarity when listening to music, and don't mind paying a bit more than the average person for it - as long as the equipment lasts.  My (only) previous IEM was a (pre-Logitech) Ultimate Ears SuperFi 5 Pro that lasted 9 years until the left unit died recently.  My (current) musical taste is mostly electronic (psytrance, ambient), but I also frequently listen to jazz, funk, and sometimes classical.  Over my life, I've also had blues, rock, folk, and jam 'phases,' and have an extensive collection of (FLAC) music across genres.

My criteria:
The SuperFi impressed me, but all I had exposure to previously were cheap earbuds.  However one thing that I was not impressed with was the lack of bass.  I've since learned that's a limitation of the balanced armature driver, and why I'm interested in hybrids.  Apologies for the lack of proper audiophile vocabulary to explain myself (such as 'soundstage' and such), but I will take a stab anyway.  'Muddy' bass does not sound like something I'm after, and I like a clearly defined thump of mid-bass.  However I must say that the rolling chesty rumble of a deep sub-bass on the right track is pretty freakin' awesome, too.  But this doesn't mean I don't like a very clear treble end as well, with 'crisp and clear without being harsh' being the best way I can describe my taste there.  Put these two together, and I suppose it means the 'V' shape I've read in comments so often concerning hybrids.  That's where I suppose my broad taste across genres becomes a problem, because whereas the V might be fine in much electronic music, mid-vocals in rock or jazz (or even psytrance) tracks can simply get hidden away.  I'd like to have a way to prevent that if possible.

Finally, reliability is a big thing with me in whatever I buy.  Nine years on the SuperFi's is quite acceptable; and I kept my old Nissan truck for 15 (and still sold it for $3k, although the sound system was probably worth 1/2 that alone).  So unless I made a mistake, every model above has replaceable cables (I did change the SuperFi cables about 4-5 times in that 9 years).  But except for Sony, I know nothing about the other companies above.  I would prefer buying from a company that has been around a while, has made IEMs for a while, and supports its products through interventionist customer service and long-term warranties.

There is a lot of knowledge on this site, and I am really hoping that I can get comparitive feedback concerning the sound quality of these selections, especially relative to my criteria above.  Plus maybe some information on the reliability of the products, or at least of the companies selling them.

Thank you in advance.

Jon

The iBasso IT03 is my first foray into hybrids, and i must say they don't disappoint Their sub-bass, mids and detail retrieval are quite impressive. Do see if you are able to audition any of the iems that you have in mind.

Let us know what you ended up with!

 

[jthew]

Are most/all hybrid iems vented or ported? If a hybrid is vented or ported, does the vent go back toward the ear drum, like a bass reflex speaker, or does it get vented out of the back of the shell to relieve pressure? What is the theory behind use of vents or ports? Do BA only iems have or need ports? Why or why not?

 

[Midgetguy]

Are most/all hybrid iems vented or ported? If a hybrid is vented or ported, does the vent go back toward the ear drum, like a bass reflex speaker, or does it get vented out of the back of the shell to relieve pressure? What is the theory behind use of vents or ports? Do BA only iems have or need ports? Why or why not?

My understanding is all hybrids are ported somehow. Or, at least I haven't seen a hybrid that isn't ported (my experience is limited though). All the ones I've seen tend to have the port on the front face of the IEM. It's not for pressure relief AFAIK; that's the concept behind stuff like the ADEL and APEX modules by companies like 64 Audio. The ports on hybrid IEMs are usually there because of the dynamic driver. Dynamic drivers need more air to move in order to work better because of how they function. BA units are much more self-contained; they don't need ports because they work differently from a standard dynamic driver. Dynamic drivers are cones and the whole cone moves in order to push and pull air to make sound waves. BA units have a very small piece of material that vibrate over a hole to cause the movements in air and as such, they need a lot less air to create sound compared to dynamic drivers.

Read up on basic working structures of dynamic drivers and balanced armature drivers written by people way smarter than I am. You'll get a better understanding of why dynamic and hybrid IEMs have ports for the dynamic driver, no matter how unnoticeable.

 

[jthew]

Are most/all hybrid iems vented or ported? If a hybrid is vented or ported, does the vent go back toward the ear drum, like a bass reflex speaker, or does it get vented out of the back of the shell to relieve pressure? What is the theory behind use of vents or ports? Do BA only iems have or need ports? Why or why not?

It would be nice to have info about these on this thread.

It's interesting that some say bass produced by a BA driver don't create the same kind of pressure as bass produced by a dynamic driver. Yet, ADEL is being used on some BA only iems (and also single dynamic driver iems).

 

[jthew]

Also, do vents from dynamic drivers go from the back of the dynamic driver to open air at the outer shell of the iem, or does the vent go from the front of the dynamic driver to open air at the outer shell of the iem? If it is the latter, it would be able to relieve pressure at the eardrum in an ADELish way.

 

[Midgetguy]

It would be nice to have info about these on this thread.

It's interesting that some say bass produced by a BA driver don't create the same kind of pressure as bass produced by a dynamic driver. Yet, ADEL is being used on some BA only iems (and also single dynamic driver iems).

BAs don't create the same sort of pressure IMO. ADEL (and similar) tech makes most sense on BA-only IEMs because the entire unit is sealed, with the only airway being the nozzle(s). Because of this, once you put them in your ears and get a seal, all the air in use is whatever is in the IEM and whatever is in your ear canal. Thus, you get a potential pressure issue because any air being moved can only be in your ear. Wouldn't be able to answer your other questions; like I said, I'm no expert. There are people far more knowledgeable about this stuff than me. I'd suggest you go to the Empire Ears thread. They're a great BA IEM company and use ADEL tech in some of their lineup. Their leader Jack Vang is reasonably active in the thread and he or others there may be able to answer some of your questions.

 

[Brooko]

My understanding is that the ports are there for two reasons. Main one is to eliminate driver flex - and this is for the exact reason Midgetguy said - because dynamic drivers by design are traditional design - essentially like miniature speakers. Therefore they displace more air, and are also more flexible. If you put an unvented dynamic IEM into your ear, and create a seal, every time you move the IEM the pressure will cause the driver to flex, and create a loud click or crackle. The effect is called driver flex - and its really annoying. This is why practically every manufacturer of DD or hybrid employing a DD will have a pressure release vent. They can locate anywhere on the IEM as long as in their design it removes pressure.

The second reason for venting or porting a hyrid or DD is to affect tuning. Easiest way to show this is to simply take a vented DD or hybrid. close or partially the vent, and listen to what happens to the frequency response - and particulalrly the bass response.

All of the above has zero to do with designs like ADEL or APEX. They are primarily employed for BAs, and have to do with the dissipation of trapped pressure waves in a completely sealed IEM.

 

[jthew]

All of the above has zero to do with designs like ADEL or APEX. They are primarily employed for BAs, and have to do with the dissipation of trapped pressure waves in a completely sealed IEM.

Thanks, Brooko. I'm totally new to this stuff. But it seems to me that, even though it wasn't the intended purpose, a vent from the space between the dynamic driver to the outside air would be doing something very similar to ADEL or APEX.

Any idea whether the vents are from the eardrum side of the driver or the back of the driver? Doe vary from one iem to another?

 

[Brooko]

Those questions you would have to ask a designer. And the vents we are talking about are tiny. The systems involved with Apex and ADEL are a lot more complex and targeted explicitly at releasing wave pressure. So no - the two concepts are not the same.

 

[Jenz]

no fans of hybrid IEMs here?
I used the last 2-3 years mainly with BA In Ears.

now out of curiosity I bought an almost 10 year old Ultrasone iQ (used on ebay).
For me this is the best hybrid in-ear I've heard so far. Also better than some good BA IEMs like SE846 or AF1120. And that with just one BA and 1DD.
This confirms my opinion that the wheel will not be reinvented, not even with earphones!

The seal is important with the iQ, otherwise it will hiss quickly and the bass will not be present. I use Triple Eartrips and it works great. Great, fast bass (almost at BA level. most hybrid in ears have a spongy slow bass that is inconsistent with the BA drivers.) - and usually for a dynamic driver. very good resolution, good stage in width and height. I paid less than € 200 and don't regret a cent.
which drivers does Ultrasone actually use? what of Knowles or Sonion? Or others? Given the good sound quality, these would have to be very good and price-intensive drivers. Ultrasone still sells the iQ today, crazy.