[kuma]

Quote:

Originally posted by bangraman The reason I said it is because of the comparative grain, overblown bass, extremely heavy coloration and lack of soundstaging... All traits in common with practically all DJ style phones I have owned. Still, if you like it you like it.

ok. i buy coloration and less soundstaging thing. ( I won't say lack of, tho )
but, grain, overblown bass can be controlled depending on what's driving it.
if you think rs1 is a dj fone, give me a reco. i'll try one and see. Actually, this would be fun.

 

[Mr.PD]

The only problem I have with my RS-1's is I can't keep the volume down. Everytime I use them I gotta crank them up. They are so involving, and detailed at high volumes. They are addicting.

 

[bangraman]

A further edit added as a post because I can't preview edits!!!


Let's take the RS-1. My most recent memory. Clearly, if you love the RS-1, you love the dynamics of it. I thought it was great... It is exactly like a better resolving DJ style phone. But then it started to get annoying.


Concerning improvement with different sources and amps, I feel that the RS-1 reaches it's limits pretty early. Say you didn't want such great (but I think very fake) dynamics. I decided I didn't. So I stuck it on a relatively high resolution, cold source optimised for low-impedance, high-current phones. Robbed of the bounciness (but oh it was trying so hard still to jazz up the sound) and having some of the colour slapped out of it's cheeks, it was comparatively unresolved at low or high volumes.
With phones like the HD600, it was certainly possible for me to see that there is plenty of scope to the sound through more power and quality at the back end, although it was comparatively much more 'boring' than the RS-1. It would be unlikely to be able to replicate the slam of the RS-1 even in a system of power.


The less your system resolves, the less the RS-1's lack of resolution becomes an issue. On the other hand even if your system resolves enough to expose the RS-1's problems, if you are 'addicted' to the dynamics (which I can fully understand) there are few other comparable phones at least among those I've had.


So as kuma said, if you want to enjoy the RS-1 I feel it has to be done with warts and all. The wart in question would be in my case a great big one, artfully hidden by a mohogany clown nose

... Slightly too warty for me for everyday use.


I do occasionally feel like the RS-1 dynamics. But ideally I want it in a closed phone for reasons of practicality. I will report back if my next DIY project to replicate (my memory of) the RS-1 as closely as possible in a DJ-phone housing proves fruitful.

 

[kuma]

Quote:

Originally posted by bangraman On the other hand even if your system resolves enough to expose the RS-1's problems, if you are 'addicted' to the dynamics (which I can fully understand) there are few other comparable phones at least among those I've had.

Addiction is good.

So, where is your reco of assorted DJ fones?

 

[AC1]

Quote:

Originally posted by bangraman Concerning improvement with different sources and amps, I feel that the RS-1 reaches it's limits pretty early. Say you didn't want such great (but I think very fake) dynamics. I decided I didn't. So I stuck it on a relatively high resolution, cold source optimised for low-impedance, high-current phones. Robbed of the bounciness (but oh it was trying so hard still to jazz up the sound) and having some of the colour slapped out of it's cheeks, it was comparatively unresolved at low or high volumes. With phones like the HD600, it was certainly possible for me to see that there is plenty of scope to the sound through more power and quality at the back end, although it was comparatively much more 'boring' than the RS-1. It would be unlikely to be able to replicate the slam of the RS-1 even in a system of power. The less your system resolves, the less the RS-1's lack of resolution becomes an issue. On the other hand even if your system resolves enough to expose the RS-1's problems, if you are 'addicted' to the dynamics (which I can fully understand) there are few other comparable phones at least among those I've had.

I found the 600s had reached what resolution it could produce quicker than the Grado. Honestly I thought the 600s were going to have a higher limit than they actually had.

I did not find the MSPs to "lack" resolution compared to other (non Grado) headphones I have tried. Though not to say it did not have its own problems and "sound" but all headphones have their own traits. I guess in comparison to the Hp2s though the MSPs lack resolution.

 

[tom hankins]

I've only got the MS2's, but with them I agree with bangraman's finding regarding upstream changes in gear.(as compared to the HD600)

 

[Steve999]

IMHO, the Grados are really not too colored at all, they're way way within head-fi consensus standards of acceptable tonal balance, which are pretty darn stringent and disqualify about 95 percent of headphones on the market for the head-fi general flame-proof seal of approval. I think they are quite well balanced. I think the SR60s are incredibly well balanced and are an astonishing and unparalleled bargain in headphones. They always have been and it seems no one is going to raise the bar any time soon.

It must be extraordinarily difficult to beat the SR60s on a price/performance basis, because year after year no one does it, not Sony, not Sennheiser, nobody comes close. We can speculate and wax eloquent and try to explain this away or put them down or think up mysterious limitations until the cows come home but the straightforward truth seems to be that, after all the nonsense, discerning ears are very often impressed. I think the upper grados also sound astonishingly good and are relativily uncolored, but as you move up the chain you may or may not be getting better sound (depending on your taste and preferences) and the performance to price ratio naturally goes down as the price goes up, because the SR60s are just so good.

I must say I am puzzled by descriptions of Grados regarding synergies and colorations and lack of potential with higher grade equipment etc. etc. that just don't ring true to me. It strikes me as quite fanciful and not based in reality. The Grados won't go away because they are great. I have the Senn HD580s and love those too so I have no axe to grind on that score.

 

[kuma]

Quote:

Originally posted by Steve999 IMHO, the Grados are really not too colored at all, they're way way within head-fi consensus standards of acceptable tonal balance,

Neutrality is somewhat relative. I found Grado's tonal balance acceptable. ( there are variance amongst RS and SR series, ) But, they are indeed on a warm side of spectrum say, compared to AKG, Beyer Ety or AT I've tried. Some might object to this warmer tonal balance especially RS1, and it might not work if his or her system has already warmish slant, for instance. Accuracy of tonal color is one's listening preference, only way to know if transducers are relatively colorless, I'd think you have to playback various recorded sound bites and see how faithfull they are.

Quote:

I must say I am puzzled by descriptions of Grados regarding synergies and colorations and lack of potential with higher grade equipment etc. etc. that just don't ring true to me. It strikes me as quite fanciful and not based in reality.

I don't quite get that either. Everyone hears differently, so can't argue there.

I do think most 'issues' people would have with Grado is their strong flavor and unhi-fiish nature of it which go against hte norm.

 

[Hirsch]

Quote:

Originally posted by bangraman The less your system resolves, the less the RS-1's lack of resolution becomes an issue. On the other hand even if your system resolves enough to expose the RS-1's problems, if you are 'addicted' to the dynamics (which I can fully understand) there are few other comparable phones at least among those I've had.

Hmmm...since I haven't reached this limit yet, I'd have to classify the EAR HP4, Supra, and carlo-modded Melos as low resolution amps. Somehow, I don't think that description captures them well. The RS-1's flaws are in its tonal balance, which tends towards warm, but not in its resolving power. In that, it clearly beats out almost any other dynamic in any A/B I've tried (only the R10 is more resolving).

Something weird is happening here.

 

[bangraman]

Hmmm too. I can only report what I've heard. This was done in the standard way which I do, that is close all doors and windows (especially important with an open phone) and play various test pieces at different volumes. Resolving capability comparison was on my main set-up, which is admittedly optimised for the W2002.... but detail is detail.

 

[Steve999]

Cool. Hope I wasn't too abrasive. One thing I respect is someone's impressions based on close listening. Thanks.

Quote:

Originally posted by bangraman Hmmm too. I can only report what I've heard. This was done in the standard way which I do, that is close all doors and windows (especially important with an open phone) and play various test pieces at different volumes. Resolving capability comparison was on my main set-up, which is admittedly optimised for the W2002.... but detail is detail.

 

[Kubernetes]

I did love my RS-1s, but I sold them off a long time ago. Unfortunately, I didn't need a $700 pair of phones for work (where I need open phones) and I wanted closed phones at home (where my AT-W100s fit the bill). I will say this about the RS-1s--they were more detailed than any phone I've heard yet (maybe my Etys stack up, but it's a very different sound). I do miss the ear-thumping bass when hooked up to my EMP.

 

[Beagle]

Quote:

Originally posted by kuma I do think most 'issues' people would have with Grado is their strong flavor and unhi-fiish nature of it which go against hte norm.

I think Grado does a lot with a little. Their headphones are very light and low mass, yet the sound is so big and so "there". There are headphones three to four times the size of Grado's that sound downright wimpy and light in comparison. Too many people here use hi-fi as it's own reference (compare headphones to other headphones) instead of comparing to a real voice or instrument. Here is where the Grados always win out.

 

[lini]

Quote:

Originally posted by Beagle (...) instead of comparing to a real voice or instrument. Here is where the Grados always win out.

If you really think so, individual perception indeed varies a lot, because to me it's quite different. And it might also have a lot to do with typical listening distances and situations. The Grado presentation in the SR-series just seemed brighter and more up-front than real life to me. The RS2 seemed to be fairly neutral to my ears, while the RS1 already seemed to overblow the bass and not as... uhm... damn, I just miss the English word for zusammenhängend... stringent, maybe. Oh, well, in the end it probably boils down to tastes, anyway.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[Davie]

Quote:

Originally posted by Steve999 It must be extraordinarily difficult to beat the SR60s on a price/performance basis, because year after year no one does it, not Sony, not Sennheiser, nobody comes close.

I think this is a bit of an exaggeration. For me, the Senn HD497 does better than come close to the SR60, and street prices are quite a bit lower.