[Francisco]

 
Quote:

What you're talking about would require a dedicated ADC (analogue-to-digital coverter), an ability to write large amounts of data to the card, a decent encoding facility and a load of other features that few other people would need. All this would take up battery life, space and money. For your purposes there are far better options in terms of equipment. FiiO seem to have a habit of executing things well, and if we keep on trying to pile on the features then we won't actually have the DAP we wanted any more.
The reason that those other players can record is because they're using cheap chips that combine DAC/ADC/opamp capability, doing none particularly well. The X3 will use a high-quality dedicated DAC (WM8040) and a dedicated opamp/driver chip - there simply isn't the space or money to put in a decent ADC. I'm sure you could possibly fit in a cheapo chip somehwere, but it would be a half-assed effort and that's not really FiiO's style. It would also be no better than what you currently have.
 

 
I'm using a Creative Zen Nano 1Gb from 2004. I guess things have changed for the better after 6 years, maybe there's still space in there for this one little feature...
 
You could do me the favour of pointing those "better options", could you?

 

[JoetheArachnid]

Quote:

 
I'm using a Creative Zen Nano 1Gb from 2004. I guess things have changed for the better after 6 years, maybe there's still space in there for this one little feature...
 
You could do me the favour of pointing those "better options", could you?

 
Can't say I have any experience in the area, but...
I think if you're looking for good quality you'd be spending maybe $200+ on a field recorder. Looking through something like this might be a good place to start - I'm sure there are budget options around if you look. As always, it's about how much money you've got to burn spend.

 

[Riku540]

Quote:

Quote:

Hello my mind-boggled friend,
 
Line-in level, so I could plug it to my turntable and rip some vinyl, for example. A Mic Input would probably be asking too much, a line-level input would be enough. It would allow people to plug a nice diy pre-amp that would enable the use of a set of electrec mics for binaural field recordings (quite popular between headphone enthusiasts, if you didn't know).
 
The DAP that I'm currently using has a line level input and there are a few others out there that have like the Cowon X5, some Iriver and so on. However, they are all outdated, obsolete - mine only lets me record to 160kb/s MP3 files and it doesn't even have a memory card slot. If Fiio released a player with this simple feature it would be usefull for more than a few people.
 
Cheers and happy New Year.

 
What you're talking about would require a dedicated ADC (analogue-to-digital coverter), an ability to write large amounts of data to the card, a decent encoding facility and a load of other features that few other people would need. All this would take up battery life, space and money. For your purposes there are far better options in terms of equipment. FiiO seem to have a habit of executing things well, and if we keep on trying to pile on the features then we won't actually have the DAP we wanted any more.
The reason that those other players can record is because they're using cheap chips that combine DAC/ADC/opamp capability, doing none particularly well. The X3 will use a high-quality dedicated DAC (WM8040) and a dedicated opamp/driver chip - there simply isn't the space or money to put in a decent ADC. I'm sure you could possibly fit in a cheapo chip somehwere, but it would be a half-assed effort and that's not really FiiO's style. It would also be no better than what you currently have.

Completely agree. This is a player; not a recorder. FiiO is already going out of their way to meet the community's needs. One feature that only one person is going to use... just doesn't belong here I'm sorry.
 
This is discussion on what we can do to improve FiiO's X3. Not Build-a-Bear, -I mean Build-a-DAP workshop...

 

[Francisco]

Thank you anyway for quoting me again, my message had been "lost" with the page change.

 

[limpidglitch]

Quote:

 
Quote:

Quote:

If it'll have a line level input (or mic input), I'll definitely buy one

Why would you want that? It's neither a phone, an amp nor a memo device. It's a digital audio player. Some of the suggestions people make boggle the mind...

 
Hello my mind-boggled friend,
 
Line-in level, so I could plug it to my turntable and rip some vinyl, for example. A Mic Input would probably be asking too much, a line-level input would be enough. It would allow people to plug a nice diy pre-amp that would enable the use of a set of electrec mics for binaural field recordings (quite popular between headphone enthusiasts, if you didn't know).
 
The DAP that I'm currently using has a line level input and there are a few others out there that have like the Cowon X5, some Iriver and so on. However, they are all outdated, obsolete - mine only lets me record to 160kb/s MP3 files and it doesn't even have a memory card slot. If Fiio released a player with this simple feature it would be usefull for more than a few people.
 
Cheers and happy New Year.

What about a portable audio recorder like the Sony PCM M10 that wil do mp3 playback?

 

[i_djoel2000]

Quote:

What you're talking about would require a dedicated ADC (analogue-to-digital coverter), an ability to write large amounts of data to the card, a decent encoding facility and a load of other features that few other people would need. All this would take up battery life, space and money. For your purposes there are far better options in terms of equipment. FiiO seem to have a habit of executing things well, and if we keep on trying to pile on the features then we won't actually have the DAP we wanted any more.
The reason that those other players can record is because they're using cheap chips that combine DAC/ADC/opamp capability, doing none particularly well. The X3 will use a high-quality dedicated DAC (WM8040) and a dedicated opamp/driver chip - there simply isn't the space or money to put in a decent ADC. I'm sure you could possibly fit in a cheapo chip somehwere, but it would be a half-assed effort and that's not really FiiO's style. It would also be no better than what you currently have.
 

huh? by reading a few pages back, i thought feiao said x3 will uses WM8740??

 

[JoetheArachnid]

Quote:

huh? by reading a few pages back, i thought feiao said x3 will uses WM8740??

I think that was a typo and/or stupidity on my part. I think the latter.

 
I'll edit the original post...

 

[ClieOS]

Quote:

It's a standard 3.5mm socket for the coax then??

The necessary adapter will be provided, IIRC.
 
Quote:

Line-in level, so I could plug it to my turntable and rip some vinyl...

Unfortunately the hardware spec is pretty much done atm, so no extra hardware will be added. The idea of X3 is mainly being a source first, and everything else is designed over that goal.
 
Quote:

What about the problems brought on by using a connector, and likely a conductor, not conforming wihe the 75Ω standard?
What will happen if you plug your precious IEMs into the coax jack by a mistake?

75Ω is basically a way to match the impedance of the cable to the device so it won't generate standing wave in RF range (which is what coaxial cable is mainly designed to use for). But since we already use 3.5mm jack that is not fully confirmed to the coaxial standard, what ever tiny lost in signal strength by not using a 75Ω cable is really not much of a issue at that point. It is compromise no doubt, but it is still better than adding another 1cm just so to fit the RCA jack. As for plugging headphone to coaxial jack - probably nothing will happen beside some very low level white noise in one channel (yes, I tried that before). S/PDIF generally transmit in much high frequency than audible range, from 44kHz and up, and this is usually way over what headphone can reproduce, plus the signal is not line level so it shouldn't be loud at all.
 
As I have said, I think the hardware spec has probably been finalized, so there won't be much change in hardware from this point forward.

 

[Jack C]

On the subject of jitter, will the X3's DAC clock be driven from the data stream or will there be some sort of buffering and re-clocking going on in the DAC circuit?
 
Jack

 

[limpidglitch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClieOS /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
75Ω is basically a way to match the impedance of the cable to the device so it won't generate standing wave in RF range (which is what coaxial cable is mainly designed to use for). But since we already use 3.5mm jack that is not fully confirmed to the coaxial standard, what ever tiny lost in signal strength by not using a 75Ω cable is really not much of a issue at that point. It is compromise no doubt, but it is still better than adding another 1cm just so to fit the RCA jack. As for plugging headphone to coaxial jack - probably nothing will happen beside some very low level white noise in one channel (yes, I tried that before). S/PDIF generally transmit in much high frequency than audible range, from 44kHz and up, and this is usually way over what headphone can reproduce, plus the signal is not line level so it shouldn't be loud at all.
 

 
Thank you for clearing that up.
I'm not really a potential buyer, I just got a bit puzzled by the implementation as I can't remember to have seen it anywhere before.

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

The specs and features are confusing me, lol. I'll just buy it and get used to all the extra stuff later. I'm minimalistic when it comes to such things, but as long as I have a variety of ways to use the X3 with my very humble and Fiio centric setup, I'm already sold.

 

[JoetheArachnid]

Quote:

Thank you for clearing that up.
I'm not really a potential buyer, I just got a bit puzzled by the implementation as I can't remember to have seen it anywhere before.

The HiFiMAN HM-801 had a 3.5mm coax input. I haven't seen it used anywhere else, but there's no reason why it should be problematic.

 

[wichogt]

Quote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClieOS /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
75Ω is basically a way to match the impedance of the cable to the device so it won't generate standing wave in RF range (which is what coaxial cable is mainly designed to use for). But since we already use 3.5mm jack that is not fully confirmed to the coaxial standard, what ever tiny lost in signal strength by not using a 75Ω cable is really not much of a issue at that point. It is compromise no doubt, but it is still better than adding another 1cm just so to fit the RCA jack. As for plugging headphone to coaxial jack - probably nothing will happen beside some very low level white noise in one channel (yes, I tried that before). S/PDIF generally transmit in much high frequency than audible range, from 44kHz and up, and this is usually way over what headphone can reproduce, plus the signal is not line level so it shouldn't be loud at all.
 

 
Thank you for clearing that up.
I'm not really a potential buyer, I just got a bit puzzled by the implementation as I can't remember to have seen it anywhere before.

 


Quote:

Quote:

Thank you for clearing that up.
I'm not really a potential buyer, I just got a bit puzzled by the implementation as I can't remember to have seen it anywhere before.

The HiFiMAN HM-801 had a 3.5mm coax input. I haven't seen it used anywhere else, but there's no reason why it should be problematic.

 
well it's not new, maybe didn't spread to much because of optical but it's more common with portable DVD players(I have a coby with that type output)
 

 

[AnAnalogSpirit]

I missed a bit of the conversation but is FiiO seriously going to nix yummy optical SPDIF out in favor of stupid coax digital out? Could we all please chime in with "NO, we want optical digital out!" and get them to change their minds? Just cause HiFiMAN did it wrong doesn't mean FiiO has to flounder at it too. C'mon you're killing me.

 

[Riku540]

Hardware has more or less already been finalized and James already explained coaxial is just as good if not better than optical. It yields the same results, with less steps in the process:
 
Quote:

/img/forum/go_quote.gif

In fact, the SQ through coaxial will be better than optical !
 
Through coaxial, (SOURECE) SPDIF OUT----COAXIAL CABLE---SPDIF IN (DECODER)
 
Through optical, (SOURECE) SPDIF Signal ----Electro-light converter ---light-----OPTICAL CABLE---light-----Light-Electro converter-----SPDIF IN (DECODER)
 
So, in most time the optical will be more complex and may have bigger jitter distortion!
 
But in some situation, like there are very big electromagnetic interference from the source or from outside, the optical will help to protect the signal! it can isolate the source and the decoder in electro!
 

 
Honestly, at the end of the day they're both digital. What difference does it make other than hardware compatibility?