[Riku540]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anaxilus /img/forum/go_quote.gif

So is the X3 closer to the PS3 or wii controller in shape?
 
Wii, but look how low the buttons are. They're not up where the screen is.
 
Dude, you know a square still orients buttons north, south, east, west.  HiFiman?  The PS3 and Wii are obvious crosses not diamonds.
 
Same thing. Diamond is a square at an angle. What does cross vs diamond have anything to do with it? You can go either way.
 
Exactly.  So what's your point and why the hell are we still discussing it?  Can we move on from whatever the point is you are trying to make that hasn't been said already like 4 posts ago?
 
You simply stated your opinion and I stated mine. I never at any point said you were wrong, or that I was trying to convince you that I am right. I thought we were having a mature discussion about the pros and cons of the different button layouts. Obviously I was wrong on that one.
 
Hooray again.  Kudos.
 
It's a shame we misunderstood each other. In any case, I thought it was a good discussion until it got to where it did.

 

[firsthand]

I see some parts use the same molding as E7, so it will reduce the production cost.
 
It would be great if this music player can perform the dac function like E7, and can send digital out which E7 can't perform.
 
3.5mm at the bottom is line-out, right?

 

[ClieOS]

The aluminum casing is probably CNC'ed, so there won't really be much saving at manufacturing, but probably save the time for a redesign. X3 will be able to send S/PDIF via coaxial-out, but it won't do USB-DAC. Yes, the 3.5mm at the bottom is line-out.

 

[JamesFiiO]

the first and important thing for X3 is a source! so we focus in the playback of music!
 
And I think it is not need to use a DAP as an AMP to connect  to other DAP! So X3 can only be a source but not a decoder or amp!
 
BTW, it is alreay very difficult to make a high sound quality DAP ! We will like to make thing simple but not complex!
 
if you want a decent pure amp, we have E11;
 
if you want a  decent DAC with digital in, we have E17; ( it is on our roadmap and it is too early to discuss it now )
 
So after 1 year, you will find we have a full range product line which can satify all kind of request! and I hope it will be a great reward to all who support us constantly!
 
Trust me, we are listening, so we know what you need, but we need more time, and we also need more time to finish our plan! in fact, we already have a team includes 15 engineers but it is not
 
easy to make a good products in 6 months, just consider that Apple have more than 10,000 engineers but only develop very few models!

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

Keep up the very good work, James and Fiio!
 
Now you should NOT have mentioned the E17, because now all of us are gonna start speculating. DOH!
 

 
You know you have some loyal followers, so we'll be waiting intently on your X3, E11, and future products!
 
To bring the topic back to the X3, I personally think the button placement issue is being blown out of proportion. Like all new gadgets, it will take at MOST a few days to acclimate yourself to. After that, it will be second nature. It's just a fact of life. It's a new product. Get used it, stop complaining, and enjoy the rich sound coming out of it! This isn't a Sansa, Apple, HiFiman, or whatever other DAPs are out there. It's a Fiio.

 

[Train]

The button placement isn't a huge deal but, in regards to what people are saying about the diagonal placement scheme, it assumes I'll always be palming it. I'd prefer similar button functions (FW/REW/play/pause, volume up/down) to be more in the same row or column. I don't think that makes it any harder to operate with your thumb while holding it, while at the same time it seems to make a lot more sense to me in regards to blind or pocketed operation.

 

[JoetheArachnid]

Here's a crazy plan: how about instead of arguing about the button layout people actually attempt to come up with a better one? Using some very bad Photoshop skills and about ten minutes' work I created this:
 

Now clearly that's not actually a very well thought out design, but apparently some people in this thread are omnipotent ergonomic designers so perhaps they could actually try to improve the design themselves rather than bickering about it. FWIW, I liked the original design apart from the placement of the play button. It's also a little biased to right-handed people because of the diagonals, but I don't know if taht ought to be a consideration.
 
Peace.

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

How about Fiio creates a 'grid' on the face of the X3 where we can choose WHERE to place the buttons? Lol, hilarious. Nice ps skills Joe. I approve. XD
 
At this point, I just want the damn thing. Button placement has never been an issue. I didn't like my Fuze when I first got it. Took me less than a day to love it.

 

[wichogt]

I like the original button layout, I also think diagonal is more ergonomic for both right and left handed people(just practice the movement with your hand and you'll see), the only change I could think about is 3 diagonal rows instead of 2 so we can have the menu and play/pause buttons on the same row.
 
 
about the blind operation, come on people I'm sure that if you found it awkward it would only be for a couple of hours or days at most. you will memorize the layout to operate it even up side down while in your pocket. 
 
EDIT- I forgot maybe a couple buttons on the middle of one side for Up/Down scrolling
we haven't heard about the amp section, have we? it is confirmed that it would be the same as E7?(which people say uses the amp of the E5 

 ) 

 

[ClieOS]

When people have touch screen, they want to have the hard keys back; When they have the hard keys back, they complaints about the keys position; When the position is finally adjusted, some other complains that the design is ergonomically great for lefty; By the time ergonomics is finally balanced for both sides, some already begin wishing for touch screen - such as the cycle of life

 

[ClieOS]

Quote:

we haven't heard about the amp section, have we? it is confirmed that it would be the same as E7?(which people say uses the amp of the E5 

 ) 

The amp section between E5 and E7 is actually the same, except E7 has better opamp and coupling caps.
 

 

[Zida]

 
Quote:

/img/forum/go_quote.gif

Here's a crazy plan: how about instead of arguing about the button layout people actually attempt to come up with a better one?

 
Fiio clearly wants to build what we want them to, so designing our own preferred layouts sounds like a very good idea!

The one I was designing featured the following:

1. A vertical scrolling (+/-) touchpad in the center. I find it quick and easy to scroll through a long list of music with a touch pad when they account for the speed at which you slide your finger and apply that to how many lines to skip.
2. On either side of it have the fast forward and rewind buttons (can also be used for menu navigation: forward / back)

 

1. Menu button on the top left of the UI area, play/pause at the top right. 

It was only when I actually started to try and draw it up in paint that I had realized what I had done. I had created an inferior version of the Zen Vision: M.

  
    
 ​

They had a near perfect layout:
Center vertical scroll for very quick browsing of long menus. Tapping the scroll would function as your "enter key" opening your selection.
On either side, skip forward/back, or hold for FF and RW (dedicated buttons, usable at any point in the menu).
Dedicated Play/Pause (when pressed while hovering over a song or album would begin playing the selection).
The bottom right was the advanced options button (options related to your selection or screen being viewed)
Bottom left was a dedicated "back" button for going "up" a level in the menu, or to the previous screen.
Top left: User Defined button (!) You can set it up in the system menu to do whatever function you want it to, or to skip you to any page in the menu. I found it extremely useful in setting up the player to best suit the user for easiest navigation. Personally, I had it skip back to the 'now playing' page, but I have known people to use it to change play mode to a shuffle or jump right to the volume changer


Apart from not having a dedicated volume control (the touch pad functions as the volume slider when you are on the "now playing" page, which was the main reason for my programmed button jumping to that page), I think the buttons were pretty much perfect on the ZV:M.

What do the rest of you think?

 

[12345142]

The Zen Vision:M seems to have some very useful controls. I would say that as long as they're not trespassing over any copyrights, it would definitely be great to implement some of those features.
The wheel on my Fuze is also great for scrolling through long lists, but it makes my thumb sore. I think a vertical touchpad to flick would be more useful.
 
I hope Fiio won't make the controls all touchpad-based, though. The vast majority of those (I'm looking at you, Samsung) are clumsy and inefficient, as opposed to good, simple buttons.

 

[ClieOS]

FiiO might want to design something people would want, but at the same time they are trying not to use design that other companies already have.

 

[Anaxilus]

Holy cow.  I just raised a concern about blind operation and was done discussing it after my next post about getting housebroken using the diagonal tracks.  More than 20 posts later geez.  Talk about a mountain out of a molehill.  Forget I mentioned it.  So any chance we can use the X3 w/ a Neural impulse amplifier?