[plakat]

Ha! Yes, I have been debating if I really want the T5 (3rd Gen) for quite some time now; they have an addictive, sweet sound that's quite different from many of the top-level headphones on the contemporary market. Where others trod the tried-and-tested audiophile-friendly sound, the T5 (3rd Gen) takes the road less travelled, with a bass-heavy, thick, lush sound that's equal parts charming and unusual. If you've not tried it, you should - it's worth a decent audition. You might just love it.

Thats exactly what I'm worrying about

And yes, I think they took quite a risk to deviate from the known paths of high end, but taking risks is the only way to stay relevant over time. There sure is a big market outside audiophile circles that values a good sounding headphone (where the definition of "good sounding" will definitely be a more warm signature) that also looks the part, has very good quality and a reasonable price. That I think they absolutely nailed.

@plakat, if you have big ears, is better to try them in a shop before buying. I had comfort issues with T 1.3, the most annoying was that the pads pinched my ear lobes, due to the smaller size of the pads... But if you have tried the last generation of T1 or the first T1, I think all T1's have pads of the same size.

Here you have a comparison: T 1.3 and Denon AH-D9200 by @albertmuc He prefers the T 1.3.

Yes, that worries me a bit. T1.1 and T1.2 were fine for my ears, the T5.2 was a tad smaller, so my left ear touched the inner part of the pad. Normally that's not much of a problem, though in this case it somehow was.

But anyway, after just getting the APM I think I'll hold off a bit, let the holidays pass at least... to then crush the good plans with the beginning of the new year

 

[Terriero]

It seems they are same as all previous Beyers I've had, 1770, 1990, 880 etc, same round shape and size.
I remember the 1990 came with velour and leather pads, was expecting similar here, they've cut on cables, accessories and the box is unnecessary big, but quality. The T5s leather pads and general comfort is the best so far to me, clamp force and materials are top!

No, not at all... I had DT 1990 Pro and briefly Amiron Home and both of them fitted perfectly to me, the T 1.3 pads are smaller than the DT 1990 Pro and Amiron pads.

 

[soundblast75]

No, not at all... I had DT 1990 Pro and briefly Amiron Home and both of them fitted perfectly to me, the T 1.3 pads are smaller than the DT 1990 Pro and Amiron pads.

My bad, looked similar, yet, you must be right as these seem so compact.
So, i can't just use any old velour pads on Ts?

 

[plakat]

My bad, looked similar, yet, you must be right as these seem so compact.
So, i can't just use any old velour pads on Ts?

I think the ring that holds the pads is about the same as with the other/older models. But changing to velour will definitely change the sound signature (I guess less bass, more treble). The pads are also differing in their inner structure as I heard (so pads that may look identical can still sound different)

 

[soundblast75]

I think the ring that holds the pads is about the same as with the other/older models. But changing to velour will definitely change the sound signature (I guess less bass, more treble). The pads are also differing in their inner structure as I heard (so pads that may look identical can still sound different)

All good ideas there, will experiment.
Threw some Madonna immaculate C today, it does expose the lack of shimmer up there, but also the 9200 also sound almost shouty on an AB , of course that's not the case, but it's amazing how both cans sound right and balanced in the 2 opposites of the freq spectrum

 

[Malevolent]

Closed backs I had in past:
AIAIAI TMA-2 - (absolute garbage sound quality)
Philips A5-PRO - (horrible comfort, torture device that happens to produce sound...can't tell sound quality because of the physical pain of wearing it...)
1MORE Triple-driver over-ear - (very nice sound, but on-ear pads are fairly uncomfortable and somewhat tight clamp)
Audeze Mobius - (very nice sound for a planar but build quality too cheap feeling and pads a bit too small)
B&O BeoPlay H7 - (very decent sound for wireless though a little too boomy low end, main issue is pads too small)
Beyerdynamic DT 177X GO with Impact Audio Cables custom single ended cable - (very nice neutral sound, little light on bass for my taste and not quite musical enough)
Fostex T40RP Mark III - (sound ok, but 'planar sound' I don't like and comfort is lacking)
Fostex T50RP Mark III - (sound ok, but 'planar sound' I don't like and comfort is lacking)
Fostex TH-X00MH with Lawton tune-up, ZMF Ori suede with Dekoni/original pads, removeable cable 2.5mm conversion by PETEREK - (Least liked TH-X00...Mahogany is just too laid back and fuzzy sounding and not punchy enough)
Fostex TH-X00PS, E-MU Palo Santo cups, Lawton tune-up [driver housing only], Yaxi Alcantara pads, custom in-pad attenuators - (most neutral and bright, treble focused Fostex presentation I've heard)
Modhouse Argon MK3 converted from Fostex T40RP MK3, deerskin strap and ZMF Lambskin pads - (dark and spacious sounding, though had nice amount of detail and planar speed. Simply light on subbass and a bit flat sounding compared to the Fostex Biodynas)
Modhouse T60RP Argon with deerskin strap and ZMF suede oval pads - (more neutral and a bit less spacious than the Argon MK3, a little brighter and slightly punchier as well.)



My current and absolutely favorite closedbacks:

Denon AH-D5200 with custom adaptor rings and Yaxi Alcantara TH610 pads - (newest and quickly becoming my favorite, digs deeper than TH-X00 Purpleheart and almost hits as hard, but more upfront mids. Just a bit thinner sounding than the Purpleheart but so detailed and tight sounding in comparison, also just a little bit less musical)

Fostex TH-X00PH with Lawton tune-up [driver housing only], Jmoney V3 sheepskin pads, custom in-pad attenuators - (subbass that hits like a freight train, warm and very solid sound. Bass has absolutely massive presence but lack tightness and punch of the AH-D5200. Very musical and pleasing sound.)

Sennheiser HD58X Jubilee with headphile Zebrawood cups sealed with Loctite Fun-Tak, Yaxi HD650 Alcantara pads w/ stock earpad foam kept - (Warm and Dark, absolutley beautiful for gaming as still keeps stock HD58X 3D holographic presentational nature and imaging. Subbass impact is not far off from the Denon/Fostex. Flatter sounding than the Denon/Fostex which is why its mostly just used for gaming/movies.)

Welcome in! You look like someone who's a huge fan of closed-backs.. I mean, you've actually modded the HD 58X into a closed can! That's not something that you see everyday (or ever, for that matter).

 

[Malevolent]

Thats exactly what I'm worrying about

And yes, I think they Tom quite a risk to deviate from the known paths of high end, but taking risks is the only way to stay relevant over time. There sure is a big market outside audiophile circles that values a good sounding headphone (where the definition of "good sounding" will definitely be a more warm signature) that also looks the part, has very good quality and a reasonable price. That I think they absolutely nailed.

Yes, it's quite a departure from their usual sound, too. In any case, I'd venture so far as to say that the company is probably reacting to contemporary market and/or consumer trends. These days, the average spending power of a typical tech enthusiast has ostensibly grown, and thanks to myriad sources of influence, the importance of good headphones is surging at a comparable pace.

If you take a gander at high-end consumer headphones like the AirPods Max, which retail for nearly $600, the idea of an end-game product for $1,000 doesn't seem so ridiculous these days. Thus, Beyerdynamic is seemingly positioning their revised T1 and T5 models within this tier, with a consumer-friendly sound, albeit one that is enhanced to a high degree, and a heritage of great headphones to bank upon.

Hence, tech gadget aficionados might consider the T1 and the T5 as gateways to the audiophile "end game"; it is decently priced for a flagship, and it comes with a fun, enjoyable sound, to boot.

 

[Terriero]

My bad, looked similar, yet, you must be right as these seem so compact.
So, i can't just use any old velour pads on Ts?

Here you can see what I posted about when I decided to return my Beyer T 1.3. I had them almost one month (the Thomann returning time).

Yes, it's quite a departure from their usual sound, too. In any case, I'd venture so far as to say that the company is probably reacting to contemporary market and/or consumer trends. These days, the average spending power of a typical tech enthusiast has ostensibly grown, and thanks to myriad sources of influence, the importance of good headphones is surging at a comparable pace.

If you take a gander at high-end consumer headphones like the AirPods Max, which retail for nearly $600, the idea of an end-game product for $1,000 doesn't seem so ridiculous these days. Thus, Beyerdynamic is seemingly positioning their revised T1 and T5 models within this tier, with a consumer-friendly sound, albeit one that is enhanced to a high degree, and a heritage of great headphones to bank upon.

Hence, tech gadget aficionados might consider the T1 and the T5 as gateways to the audiophile "end game"; it is decently priced for a flagship, and it comes with a fun, enjoyable sound, to boot.

And the most important thing to open the brand to more people: the low impedance of 32 ohms.

 

[kreggurree]

So I find myself here after open back headphones failed the wife test. I am struggling to find much information on the lower end of the closed back market.

In listening to X2HRs, HD560s and Meze Rai Solo (IEMs) I learnt that I don't like the muddiness to the X2 sound and having to strain to hear certain parts. I enjoyed the clarity that both the 560s and Meze had but probably found the 560s to have more enjoyable base. I had no issue with the quantity of bass in the X2. I tried the Sony AT MSR7b but found it uncomfortable.

I do game a little but my Cloud Alphas can stay around. it might be that at the £100 mark there is not much to upgrade from them for music even?

I listen to to a wide variety:

• Prog - eg. Porcupine Tree
• Classical - eg. romantic era orchestral work for the big sound, Bach's partitas, Brahms clarinet sonatas
• Jazz - I am a lapsed Saxophonist
• Film Scores - eg. Gladiator OST
• General Rock/indie/pop - eg. Muse, CHVRCHES, Bon Iver, City and Colour
• Acoustic - eg. Damien Rice

I guess ideally looking at the £100-200 mark but I have some more expensive ones on my radar:

DT770 250OHM (£110+AMP)
T20/40/60rp (£120+AMP!+Mod kit and pads)
MMx300 gen2 (£200)
Meze 99 Classic (£270)
DT1770 (£370 +AMP) - Sound like I would enjoy other than not very relaxing.
Denon AD5200 (£410) - sound like my kind of generalist but budget stretching.

Looking to relax and chill not analyse music but dislike feeling like sounds are being muddied. I don't mind less detail if it is smooth and clean.

EDIT: changed Sony to Audio Technica

 

[Mhog55]

So I find myself here after open back headphones failed the wife test. I am struggling to find much information on the lower end of the closed back market.

In listening to X2HRs, HD560s and Meze Rai Solo (IEMs) I learnt that I don't like the muddiness to the X2 sound and having to strain to hear certain parts. I enjoyed the clarity that both the 560s and Meze had but probably found the 560s to have more enjoyable base. I had no issue with the quantity of bass in the X2. I tried the Sony MSR7b but found it uncomfortable.

I do game a little but my Cloud Alphas can stay around. it might be that at the £100 mark there is not much to upgrade from them for music even?

I listen to to a wide variety:

• Prog - eg. Porcupine Tree
• Classical - eg. romantic era orchestral work for the big sound, Bach's partitas, Brahms clarinet sonatas
• Jazz - I am a lapsed Saxophonist
• Film Scores - eg. Gladiator OST
• General Rock/indie/pop - eg. Muse, CHVRCHES, Bon Iver, City and Colour
• Acoustic - eg. Damien Rice

I guess ideally looking at the £100-200 mark but I have some more expensive ones on my radar:

DT770 250OHM (£110+AMP)
T20/40/60rp (£120+AMP!+Mod kit and pads)
MMx300 gen2 (£200)
Meze 99 Classic (£270)
DT1770 (£370 +AMP) - Sound like I would enjoy other than not very relaxing.
Denon AD5200 (£410) - sound like my kind of generalist but budget stretching.

Looking to relax and chill not analyse music but dislike feeling like sounds are being muddied. I don't mind less detail if it is smooth and clean.

Did you try the Audio Technica ath Msr7b, or the Sony mdr-1am2? You wrote Sony Msr7b.

 

[Terriero]

With your budget, maybe I would add Beyerdynamic DT 150 to the list. I had them and they are a good cans and multigenre (very good for rock or metal) for the price asked (around 130 €).

Take a look at it's thread here.

 

[kreggurree]

Did you try the Audio Technica ath Msr7b, or the Sony mdr-1am2? You wrote Sony Msr7b.

It was the Audio Technica Msr7b, for some reason I keep thinking they are Sony. Even when I was looking for reviews I initially searched Sony.

 

[Malevolent]

So I find myself here after open back headphones failed the wife test. I am struggling to find much information on the lower end of the closed back market.

In listening to X2HRs, HD560s and Meze Rai Solo (IEMs) I learnt that I don't like the muddiness to the X2 sound and having to strain to hear certain parts. I enjoyed the clarity that both the 560s and Meze had but probably found the 560s to have more enjoyable base. I had no issue with the quantity of bass in the X2. I tried the Sony AT MSR7b but found it uncomfortable.

I do game a little but my Cloud Alphas can stay around. it might be that at the £100 mark there is not much to upgrade from them for music even?

I listen to to a wide variety:

• Prog - eg. Porcupine Tree
• Classical - eg. romantic era orchestral work for the big sound, Bach's partitas, Brahms clarinet sonatas
• Jazz - I am a lapsed Saxophonist
• Film Scores - eg. Gladiator OST
• General Rock/indie/pop - eg. Muse, CHVRCHES, Bon Iver, City and Colour
• Acoustic - eg. Damien Rice

I guess ideally looking at the £100-200 mark but I have some more expensive ones on my radar:

DT770 250OHM (£110+AMP)
T20/40/60rp (£120+AMP!+Mod kit and pads)
MMx300 gen2 (£200)
Meze 99 Classic (£270)
DT1770 (£370 +AMP) - Sound like I would enjoy other than not very relaxing.
Denon AD5200 (£410) - sound like my kind of generalist but budget stretching.

Looking to relax and chill not analyse music but dislike feeling like sounds are being muddied. I don't mind less detail if it is smooth and clean.

EDIT: changed Sony to Audio Technica

Hmmm..

The DT 770 Pro and DT 1770 Pro are intense and engaging; quite the opposite of the relaxing sound that you require. I'd skip these headphones if you want something smooth.

The 99 Classics are thick and heavy on the bass; they can sound a little congested. Otherwise, if you're a fan of strong lows, the Meze is a decent choice.

For the life of me, I can't recall any favorable impressions of the Fostex headphones (it's been years since I've heard them).

The AH-D5200 has a (relatively) cleaner sound, but one with a solid bassline attached to it. It's musical yet detailed; a solid choice. If you're willing to spend around $500, the E-MU Teak is another great headphone.

Other headphones that you can consider are the Shure SRH840 and the Audio-Technica ATH-M40x. Both of them are relatively engaging and musical, without sounding bright, bassy and/or muddy. They are good generalist headphones.

 

[AudioDuck]

Hmmm..

The DT 770 Pro and DT 1770 Pro are intense and engaging; quite the opposite of the relaxing sound that you require. I'd skip these headphones if you want something smooth.

The 99 Classics are thick and heavy on the bass; they can sound a little congested. Otherwise, if you're a fan of strong lows, the Meze is a decent choice.

For the life of me, I can't recall any favorable impressions of the Fostex headphones (it's been years since I've heard them).

The AH-D5200 has a (relatively) cleaner sound, but one with a solid bassline attached to it. It's musical yet detailed; a solid choice. If you're willing to spend around $500, the E-MU Teak is another great headphone.

Other headphones that you can consider are the Shure SRH840 and the Audio-Technica ATH-M40x. Both of them are relatively engaging and musical, without sounding bright, bassy and/or muddy. They are good generalist headphones.

As a former DT-770 owner and current SRH-1540 I absolutely second @Malevolent on the points about the Beyers and Shures. I had the Beyers for several years and enjoyed them, but they were always on the dynamic/bright side of neutral and are most definitely not relaxing. While I have not heard the SRH-840s specifically, the Shure “house sound” (I also have a pair of SE 425 IEMs from them) is more smooth and relaxing. Both brands have solid build quality and comfort as well.
My experience with Shure has been very favorable indeed- they do a nice job of having affordable parts available as well if needed over time due to wear and tear. My SRH-1540s scale really well with gear, and listening to them is like wearing my favorite pair of worn-in shoes- comfortable and relaxing.

 

[ADUHF]

It was the Audio Technica Msr7b, for some reason I keep thinking they are Sony. Even when I was looking for reviews I initially searched Sony.

I'd tend to agree with my homies here, that the DT-770 does not have a very relaxing sound out of the box. It can produce a fairly pleasing sound with some equalization added though. And it also isolates fairly well.

If you are just lookin for somethin cheap that can take a fair amount of abuse, then the M40x might be worth considering. It is not a particularly comfortable headphone though. Because it has fairly small, and also rather stiff earpads. And it looks and feels like what it is... an inexpensive beater for studios and musicians.

It doesn't have as good extension in the bass as some other recent closed backs as well, including the DT-770, M50x, AKG K371, and the Denon 5200. And most of it's warmth comes from a fairly large bump in the upper bass. It is well-extended and highly detailed in the treble though, which can be useful in a studio environment for tracking and other jobs. Overall, its sound is fairly V-shaped, with alot of detail in the higher frequencies, and warmth in the upper bass, and less emphasis in the midrange. Vocals sound a little distant on it. But some people seem to like that. It's also a little weak in terms of it's clarity and imaging compared to some of it's slightly more expensive counterparts.

It's been too long since I've listened to any of the Shures to really comment intelligently on those. My recollection is they were on the brighter side. And the graphs tell me that they also do not have as good bass extension as some other recent closed HPs. They get high marks in some other areas though.

I wish I had some better suggestions in the price range you're lookin for. But I honestly don't. I've been around and around the block with most of the usual suspects in this price bracket. And they all have issues of one kind or another which prevent me from giving them a more full-throated and unequivocal recommendation. Of the headphones that I've tried and used most recently, I like the 250 ohm DT-770 the best so far. I think it probably does need an amp though. And it definitely needs some EQ to tame the brightness in the treble a bit, and to tweak the sound a little better in the bass and midrange for my ears.

If the AKG K371 was not having QC issues with its hinges, that would probably be my next choice. But I would still want to EQ it as well, to add some more warmth in the bass, and to maybe tame the upper mids and treble perhaps a skosh.