The Beyerdynamic DT48 Arrives...

[EYEdROP]

I have heard of people using speaker amps to drive headphones, through the actual speaker terminals using an adaptor. Not the headphone out.  
 
Your Yamaha receiver has speaker terminals right? Im guessing it should have plenty of power. My yamaha receiver has 100 RMS per channel. (2 channel)

 

[joelpearce]

Advising him to plug an HE6 that isn't even his into the power terminals of an amp that delivers 100x the desired current is not really a good idea...

 

[kool bubba ice]

Mine just came with the original pads from 72. I sent mine off for repair.
 
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Okay, my new DT100 pads for the DT480 just arrived, and it's like wearing completely different headphones.  I think the gaps in the old pads were letting much of the air escape, and suddenly the bass is pretty flat down to 50hz.  This warms up the sound to neutral, and makes everything so much more musical.  In fact, I'm really liking what I'm hearing now.
 
I might have to pop them open yet again to unmod them a bit, to see what they are naturally capable of.  KBI, did the ones you listen to have old, flat, dried out pads?

 

[kool bubba ice]

I just did a 1/2 hr of listening to both my NAGRA's & HE6.. First thing I noticed was the blackground is blacker on the HE6. I was pretty wowed.. Instruments truly appear & disapear with better decay & extension.. My NAGRA's have more of a 'grey' background in comparison.. I would like to say that I'm not powering the HE6 to their full potentional, so I'm sure their sonic traits will increase..
 
Midrange: HE6: most natural I ever heard. Effortless. Very, very smooth.. More neutral & transparent then expected.. But the vocals are rich with a hint of warmth which gives then a sense of being a bit fuller sounding.
NAGRA: The HE6 mids sound a bit recessed in comparison. The NAGRA's mids are more authentic IMO & life like, but less natural sounding then the HE6, if that makes any sense.. The NAGRA's mids have a higher sense of clarity, & are more resolving.. The HE6 does a great job of hiding minor audio annoyances, while still presenting a detailed vocal presentation. The NAGRA mids sound a bit sterile, analytical & cold in comparison..
 
No clear winner, especially since the HE6 are being under powered.. I will listen to then on the B22 with my DT48A which are very similiar to my NAGRA's.. Might be paranoid.. I just don't want to test my NAGRA's on the B22 incase they might cause them problems.. I'm sure I'm worrying too much, but with my NAGRAs, I risk nothing..
 
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I still belive the HD800 and HE6 will not match match the DT48 in terms of a truly unaltered sound, faithfulness, consistency. I can almost garuntee the HD800 and HE6 will have more bass impact, extention, musicality, soundstage, Mabey more detail, due to hyped up highs from the hd800. etc... The DT48 has a simple, no frills sound. Thats why they are so special.  
 
EDIT: I have never heard the hd800 or he6. 

 

[leeperry]

You could simply measure the DC offset, if it <10mV there's no risk whatsoever...and I don't think dynamic headphones can match orthos mids-wise..they're just more advanced and overcome most of the physical issues of a round voice coil. Fostex explain what a zigzag ortho driver does at the bottom of this PDF:
http://www.majormusic.com.au/pdf/fostex/fostex_rp_headphones_brochure.pdf
 
I dunno for the HE6 but the LCD2 seems to be using the very same tricks to avoid FR imbalances.
 
that's the T50RP:

 
he didn't measure the DT48, though: http://www.geocities.jp/ryumatsuba/review.html

 

[kool bubba ice]

I'm beggining to believe that more & more, but still not 100% convinced. As the NAGRA DT48S does better the HE6 mid range in SOME area's, But in terms of smoothness & natural type mid range, yeah.. I doubt any Dynamic can compete in that area..
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You could simply measure the DC offset, if it <10mV there's no risk whatsoever...and I don't think dynamic headphones can match orthos mids-wise..they're just more advanced and overcome most of the physical issues of a round voice coil. Fostex explain what a zigzag ortho driver does at the bottom of this PDF:
http://www.majormusic.com.au/pdf/fostex/fostex_rp_headphones_brochure.pdf
 
I dunno for the HE6 but the LCD2 seems to be using the very same tricks to avoid FR imbalances.
 
that's the T50RP:

 
he didn't measure the DT48, though: http://www.geocities.jp/ryumatsuba/review.html

 

[DefectiveAudioComponent]

There is no zig-zag pattern on the LCD-2 driver.
( I still want to hear a comparison between the LCD-2 and the DT48... no one got some impressions to share? )
 
Quote:

You could simply measure the DC offset, if it <10mV there's no risk whatsoever...and I don't think dynamic headphones can match orthos mids-wise..they're just more advanced and overcome most of the physical issues of a round voice coil. Fostex explain what a zigzag ortho driver does at the bottom of this PDF:
http://www.majormusic.com.au/pdf/fostex/fostex_rp_headphones_brochure.pdf
 
I dunno for the HE6 but the LCD2 seems to be using the very same tricks to avoid FR imbalances.
 
that's the T50RP:

 
he didn't measure the DT48, though: http://www.geocities.jp/ryumatsuba/review.html

 

[lejaz]

I finally got the transformer based impedance adapter...wow! I'm finally starting to get some bass from my dt48... fantastic! It WAS a very bad mismatch with those phones and the LD mkV that was giving them such a severe bass roll off...similar to another member's experience with the LD mkIII. They're still no bass monsters, but the level now sounds pretty realistic to me compared to the weak bass I had before. Someone on another thread tried to tell me that I was looking for a better amp for them when the problem was the dt48 itself. Well, I'm glad I didn't follow his suggestion and get rid of them and get another headphone with better bass. Only had a short listen so far, and the improvement is very obvious with the impedance adapter. I can't imagine how good they would be with a really well matched amp! KBI, you were right, and myself and others were wrong. From my short listen tonight, I would say the mid bass is pretty darn close to neutral...maybe it even IS neutral....just not the real low bass.

 

[leeperry]

 

There is no zig-zag pattern on the LCD-2 driver.

I just meant that it's got a hardcore flat FR and that for the reasons Fostex explained, a dynamic driver will never be this lean.
 
The LCD2 driver looks much closer to the Fostex RP technology than to the old Yamaha...anyway I'm a noob in orthos, but I do plan on learning

 

[kool bubba ice]

Thank you.. I'm not very right in a lot of areas.. But know as much as anyone who follows the DT48. I owned 13 pair from the 50's to 08.. Glad they have improved.. Your friend is very good at what he does.. I think you would like the HE6... Realistic bass, but richer, with a bit more meat, & better low end then the DT48.. You can actually feel the lowest of the low registers, at least compared to the DT48.. Wonderful cans.. Very non offensive. A bid laid back & mellow.. Great to just kick off your shoes, lay back in your favorite recliner with your favorite spirit & get lost in the music.
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I finally got the transformer based impedance adapter...wow! I'm finally starting to get some bass from my dt48... fantastic! It WAS a very bad mismatch with those phones and the LD mkV that was giving them such a severe bass roll off...similar to another member's experience with the LD mkIII. They're still no bass monsters, but the level now sounds pretty realistic to me compared to the weak bass I had before. Someone on another thread tried to tell me that I was looking for a better amp for them when the problem was the dt48 itself. Well, I'm glad I didn't follow his suggestion and get rid of them and get another headphone with better bass. Only had a short listen so far, and the improvement is very obvious with the impedance adapter. I can't imagine how good they would be with a really well matched amp! KBI, you were right, and myself and others were wrong. From my short listen tonight, I would say the mid bass is pretty darn close to neutral...maybe it even IS neutral....just not the real low bass.

Yeah.. Ortho technology has very un tapped potentional.. I'm actually leaning more towards the LCD2 then the HD800 as of now.
 
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I just meant that it's got a hardcore flat FR and that for the reasons Fostex explained, a dynamic driver will never be this lean.
 
The LCD2 driver looks much closer to the Fostex RP technology than to the old Yamaha...anyway I'm a noob in orthos, but I do plan on learning

 

[shamu144]

Finally, your patience and efforts have been rewarded. I am very happy the impedance adapter made the decisive trick for you (are you using the recommended value of 120 ohms ?). That combined with realistic sound pressure levels should bring you now a very satisfying bass response, with the known "constraints" of the low bass response (sub 50Hz) in those headphone.
 
Beware, once you get used to the DT48 faithfull presentation of the music, there is nothing that I have heard so far that can match its overall performance...
 
Quote:

I finally got the transformer based impedance adapter...wow! I'm finally starting to get some bass from my dt48... fantastic! It WAS a very bad mismatch with those phones and the LD mkV that was giving them such a severe bass roll off...similar to another member's experience with the LD mkIII. They're still no bass monsters, but the level now sounds pretty realistic to me compared to the weak bass I had before. Someone on another thread tried to tell me that I was looking for a better amp for them when the problem was the dt48 itself. Well, I'm glad I didn't follow his suggestion and get rid of them and get another headphone with better bass. Only had a short listen so far, and the improvement is very obvious with the impedance adapter. I can't imagine how good they would be with a really well matched amp! KBI, you were right, and myself and others were wrong. From my short listen tonight, I would say the mid bass is pretty darn close to neutral...maybe it even IS neutral....just not the real low bass.

 

[lejaz]

@shamu144: your headphone inventory...past as well as present...really reflects the high regard you have for them. I hope to hear the cd900st one day...and even more so, the dt48a after reading KBI's description of the mids!.

 

[Soaa-]

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Yeah.. Ortho technology has very un tapped potentional.. I'm actually leaning more towards the LCD2 then the HD800 as of now.

 

 
Also, don't forget that the HD 800 is plastic. The LCD-2 is much more authentic: wood, metal, screws, nuts and bolts. I haven't seen one in person, but in pictures, the build quality looks much closer to what we've come to expect from the DT 48. If they sound as good as people say, they'd be quite a deal at $400 less than the HD 800.

 
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Beware, once you get used to the DT48 faithfull presentation of the music, there is nothing that I have heard so far that can match its overall performance...
 

That's what I love about the DT 48. So honest and effortless. And, being closed makes them just so perfect for me.

 

[kool bubba ice]

Yeah.. It's going to be tough doing the HE6/NAGRA comparison.. I thought they would be really colored but are not, & actually share somethings with the NAGRA's.. The term opposites are attract come to mind cause they can be so different, yet be so much a like.. When I do my final write up, you might find some contridictions in there, that are not meant to be.. But I will be putting down what I hear, & many times I use visual analogies.. I will just say, the HE6 doesn't differ as much as one would expect.. Let it be a DT48 lover or hater..

 

[kool bubba ice]

Yeah.. The DT48 is tricky when it comes to getting the bass.. Many variables come to mind. Out put OHM, volume, recording, cup positioning, seal, etc.. I blame the amp to some extent, & the DT48 themselves, but I KNEW Lejaz could get better bass out of his DT48.. It was about solving the puzzle.. Most would have given up.. & I Nikon gave him a, the sky is falling scenario, putting all the blame on the DT48, which I never agreed with.. He is very bright & knows more about headphones then I do, but I eat, sleep, & breath the DT48, so I wasn't prepared to 'throw the baby out with the bath water.' He would get even more ample bass if used with a current DT48e.. But he is content with his vintage pair, which is fine.. When Lejaz would mention the 70-90hz roll bass, I would always cringe.. I knew something was wrong in the chain.. I know the DT48 well enough to know there was a mistake..
 
Quote:

Finally, your patience and efforts have been rewarded. I am very happy the impedance adapter made the decisive trick for you (are you using the recommended value of 120 ohms ?). That combined with realistic sound pressure levels should bring you now a very satisfying bass response, with the known "constraints" of the low bass response (sub 50Hz) in those headphone.
 
Beware, once you get used to the DT48 faithfull presentation of the music, there is nothing that I have heard so far that can match its overall performance...
 

 

Shamu also has the HD800, so is even more impressive. A true bona fide ultra hi end headphone. If he is willing to share his impressions in our thread that would be great.. Albeit, if they waver from the masses, he could get flamed for it or just be labeled a DT48 nut not to be believed like me..(You should check out one PM I got. It's really getting silly here & childish. "You need psychiatric help. seriously.")Too bad you couldn't hear the HE6 mid range.. Take the authenticity/up close mids of the DT48 & put them with the naturalness, & effortless HE6 mids, & you have the perfect mids IMO.. If the R10 does this or BETTERS it, it should cost 4,000. (retail) No small feat. Yes, the DT48a puts more emphasis on the mid range.. Can you have recessed instruments..lol..
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@shamu144: your headphone inventory...past as well as present...really reflects the high regard you have for them. I hope to hear the cd900st one day...and even more so, the dt48a after reading KBI's description of the mids!.

Yes, the HE6 is giving me OArtho fever.. I owned Ortho's before, but clearly not on the level of the HE6.. Think going from the 595 to the HD800.. Why companies dumped Ortho's is beyond me.. I refuse to say they are overall better then Dynamic, but in certain areas they are.. Nothing to debate. Naturalness of the sound.. effortless flow of the music, & smoothness.. Dynamics just can't compete in those areas.. I'm leaning towards the LCD2 over the HD800 as of now.. In part thanks to Shamu & the 400 less price tag.. If you like the DT48, I think you will like the HE6..It just pains me they are such a pain to drive.. They include bannana plugs for gosh sakes!! I do agree that in terms of faithful presentation to the music the DT48 is still tops IMO.. I just wish I could get a better sonic picture of the HE6.. I even ran the HE6 on my Yamaha receiever headphone out & was amazed.. Still debating if I should use my speaker terminal.. I really don't want to risk it. These are not my headphones.. Looks like my GP V9/oppo83se will have to be the deciding factor, which, admitedly favors the DT48..easier to drive..
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Also, don't forget that the HD 800 is plastic. The LCD-2 is much more authentic: wood, metal, screws, nuts and bolts. I haven't seen one in person, but in pictures, the build quality looks much closer to what we've come to expect from the DT 48. If they sound as good as people say, they'd be quite a deal at $400 less than the HD 800.

 

That's what I love about the DT 48. So honest and effortless. And, being closed makes them just so perfect for me.