[kool bubba ice]

So no ortho magic for you? I still remember the quote you sent me about the frenchmen who favored his DT48 over his HE60 for mids.. "More faithful" was the term he used..

I do believe in Ortho magic.. I'm just not a kool aid drinking supporter.. You should try the HE6..In a nut shell they made the NAGRAs feel 'naked', in the sense that they were tonally rich & warm which lead to a meatier presentation & sound. Treble was smooth to me.. Speed was good, but nothing that blew me away.. Maybe with a better amp.. Blacker then black canvas is what got my attention.. & very low distortion which lead to very low level resolve, which were easier to hear then my NARAGS..
 
Quote:

Back from the audition 

I heard the HE5 LE driven by a M3 amp. Also heard the HE60! The stats (HE60 & O2) were both driven by the el cheapo 212 amp so the comparison is more than fair for the HE5.
 
The tonal balance of the HE5 is not too far from the stats when switching from one to another. It's just a bit brighter. Deep bass is very good, mids are well balanced, but treble sounds a bit harsh (it's not really forward but i don't know, it's much less refined than the stats). The soundstage is wide and quite airy. The speed is very good  but it doesn't really sound effortless like the high end stats. It just sounds like a fast dynamic headphone. I wonder how exactly faster the LCD2 is. Overall i enjoyed the HE5 and i think it's a good value for money, but i didn't care so much for it, the slightly harsh treble annoyed me and i was only craving to get back to the HE60. I must also say that the mids of the HE5 didn't especially impress me, i mean they were very good but after all i've read about the ortho magic, i was expecting something special.
 
Now a word about the HE60. Such a great headphone

I was very surprised with it because i expected a much brighter phone, à la HD800, whereas in fact it's very balanced and not so far from the O2. The mids are really stellar on the HE60. Deep bass is also much better than i expected. Sure it doesn't have the body of the O2 but it has a good impact. The HE60 sounded better with agressive music than the HE5. Not as smooth as the O2 yet always very enjoyable. I loved the soundstage and i found it much more cohesive and involving than the Lambdas, but i also thought it was artificially stretched. I think the O2 has a better focus and is more immersive (especially since i improved its clamping last night). So overall the HE60 has a place right next to the O2 in my heart, and i'm a bit jealous of its mids

 
One last thing, contrary to what i said on the Z1000 thread, i agree with you Shamu that the CD900ST is well balanced, i used to use it with my new DAP (s:flo2) but i just realized it sounds much better with my old Sony DAP. I actually think the CD900ST has a similar balance to the HE60.

 

[joelpearce]

I've been listening to my DT48s and my Fostex T40v1 quite a bit lately.  Nothing I've heard competes with the DT48 midrange for clarity, but I find it's a bit of a showoff on that front.  The orthos are just so effortless, and they deliver astonishing speed and clarity while never feeling like they are swinging for the fences.  It makes them a lot easier to listen to, but also easier to ignore.
 
Even though everyone who would be interested are probably reading this thread, I did complete my DT48 vs. DT480 shootout.  They are both very interesting headphones, and I do recommend that any DT48 fans should track down a pair of DT480s at some point.

 

[shamu144]

Impressive...
 
I am also a bit surprised and disappointed the ortho didn't show more of the ortho sound people are raving about (especially those mids) compared to dynamics... Based on your impressions, not even matching the mids from the CD900ST (which are trully stellar), but maybe I am extrapolating too much here. Heck, I will soon get a glimpse of what orthos sound like, because I have a Fostex T50RP on its way.

 
The CD900ST in its way is a chameleon, and will sound completely different unamped, amped with a good SS or tubes... Those HE60 look very interesting, but I don't really care for discontinued headphones.
 
Very informative post. Thanks
 
Quote:

Back from the audition 

I heard the HE5 LE driven by a M3 amp. Also heard the HE60! The stats (HE60 & O2) were both driven by the el cheapo 212 amp so the comparison is more than fair for the HE5.
 
The tonal balance of the HE5 is not too far from the stats when switching from one to another. It's just a bit brighter. Deep bass is very good, mids are well balanced, but treble sounds a bit harsh (it's not really forward but i don't know, it's much less refined than the stats). The soundstage is wide and quite airy. The speed is very good  but it doesn't really sound effortless like the high end stats. It just sounds like a fast dynamic headphone. I wonder how exactly faster the LCD2 is. Overall i enjoyed the HE5 and i think it's a good value for money, but i didn't care so much for it, the slightly harsh treble annoyed me and i was only craving to get back to the HE60. I must also say that the mids of the HE5 didn't especially impress me, i mean they were very good but after all i've read about the ortho magic, i was expecting something special.
 
Now a word about the HE60. Such a great headphone

I was very surprised with it because i expected a much brighter phone, à la HD800, whereas in fact it's very balanced and not so far from the O2. The mids are really stellar on the HE60. Deep bass is also much better than i expected. Sure it doesn't have the body of the O2 but it has a good impact. The HE60 sounded better with agressive music than the HE5. Not as smooth as the O2 yet always very enjoyable. I loved the soundstage and i found it much more cohesive and involving than the Lambdas, but i also thought it was artificially stretched. I think the O2 has a better focus and is more immersive (especially since i improved its clamping last night). So overall the HE60 has a place right next to the O2 in my heart, and i'm a bit jealous of its mids

 
One last thing, contrary to what i said on the Z1000 thread, i agree with you Shamu that the CD900ST is well balanced, i used to use it with my new DAP (s:flo2) but i just realized it sounds much better with my old Sony DAP. I actually think the CD900ST has a similar balance to the HE60.

 

[joelpearce]

In a lot of ways, the T50RP doesn't REALLY sound like an ortho.  They sound good, but it wasn't until I got the older T40 that I understood what people were talking about.  At any rate, don't think better, think smoooooother.
Quote:

Impressive...
 
I am also a bit surprised and disappointed the ortho didn't show more of the ortho sound people are raving about (especially those mids) compared to dynamics... Based on your impressions, not even matching the mids from the CD900ST (which are trully stellar), but maybe I am extrapolating too much here. Heck, I will soon get a glimpse of what orthos sound like, because I have a Fostex T50RP on its way.

 
The CD900ST in its way is a chameleon, and will sound completely different unamped, amped with a good SS or tubes... Those HE60 look very interesting, but I don't really care for discontinued headphones.
 
Very informative post. Thanks
 

 

 

[leeperry]

 
 

Originally Posted by shamu144 
 
Based on your impressions, not even matching the mids from the CD900ST (which are trully stellar), but maybe I am extrapolating too much here. Heck, I will soon get a glimpse of what orthos sound like, because I have a Fostex T50RP on its way.

I've owned both, and posted my impressions in that thread: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/512833/anyone-knows-about-those-2-great-guys-who-making-us-the-incredible-lcd-2/15#post_6935717
 
the cd900st doesn't hold a candle to the t50rp to my ears, it crushes my ears, the low end bass is uber-bloated and its mids are dull as a dishwasher. Its original owner giggled in agreement when I told him, hah. The only thing that astounded me was its amazing non-cavernous 3D SS.
 

In a lot of ways, the T50RP doesn't REALLY sound like an ortho.  They sound good, but it wasn't until I got the older T40 that I understood what people were talking about.  At any rate, don't think better, think smoooooother.

 
But is the non-mk2 T40RP circum-aural as well? the whole point of the 50 to my ears is that it's semi-closed, so you get the best of both worlds once modded(very wide SS and still good isolation, and most excellent bass).

 

[mobbaddict]

 
Quote:

So no ortho magic for you? I still remember the quote you sent me about the frenchmen who favored his DT48 over his HE60 for mids.. "More faithful" was the term he used..

" class="bbcode_smiley" height="" src="http://files.head-fi.org/images/smilies//smily_headphones1.gif" title="

" width="" /> I do believe in Ortho magic.. I'm just not a kool aid drinking supporter.. You should try the HE6..In a nut shell they made the NAGRAs feel 'naked', in the sense that they were tonally rich & warm which lead to a meatier presentation & sound. Treble was smooth to me.. Speed was good, but nothing that blew me away.. Maybe with a better amp.. Blacker then black canvas is what got my attention.. & very low distortion which lead to very low level resolve, which were easier to hear then my NARAGS..

The owner of the HE5 may buy the HE6, but he fears the amp requirement... i'll ask him for an audition if he does.
Your description also fits the O2, so i'm not sure if it has to do with the technology employed, rather with the overall balance of the headphone.

 
Quote:

Impressive...
 
I am also a bit surprised and disappointed the ortho didn't show more of the ortho sound people are raving about (especially those mids) compared to dynamics... Based on your impressions, not even matching the mids from the CD900ST (which are trully stellar), but maybe I am extrapolating too much here. Heck, I will soon get a glimpse of what orthos sound like, because I have a Fostex T50RP on its way.

 
The CD900ST in its way is a chameleon, and will sound completely different unamped, amped with a good SS or tubes... Those HE60 look very interesting, but I don't really care for discontinued headphones.
 
Very informative post. Thanks
 

It's hard for me to rate the mids of the HE5, they were good but the treble was dealbreaker for me. I may have been impressed otherwise, but i don't think the mids are in the same league as the high end stats anyway. The CD900 has a smoother treble which makes it very enjoyable for long listening.

 

[lejaz]

How old are your Fostex T40's? Is the T40 v1 the version previous to the T40RPmkII? I was set to buy one of the new ones, but I read some negative reviews of the new mkII models.
Quote:

I've been listening to my DT48s and my Fostex T40v1 quite a bit lately.  Nothing I've heard competes with the DT48 midrange for clarity, but I find it's a bit of a showoff on that front.  The orthos are just so effortless, and they deliver astonishing speed and clarity while never feeling like they are swinging for the fences.  It makes them a lot easier to listen to, but also easier to ignore.
 
Even though everyone who would be interested are probably reading this thread, I did complete my DT48 vs. DT480 shootout.  They are both very interesting headphones, and I do recommend that any DT48 fans should track down a pair of DT480s at some point.

 

[joelpearce]

The ones I have are probably from the '90s.  They are the ones with the round drivers, before Fostex switched over to the square drivers in their current lineup.  They are fully closed and do have a narrow soundstage, but if that's the sacrifice required to get a sound this balanced and effortless, then so be it.  They need a heck of a lot of current to get bass, but it's there once you feed it enough.
 
Oddly, they don't really sound any more closed than the T50RP.  

 

[kool bubba ice]

I'm still looking to get a open DT48 version.. Like modding it..Or getting them woodied... Curious to hear how they would sound open or with wooden cups..

 

[Soaa-]

I'm actually planning to get wooden covers for my DT 48. I don't think it'll change the sound much though, considering how someone once said they sound pretty much the same with or without the back covers.
 
I just put on my HD 428 for the first time in a while. They're good, but now, I really pick up the difference between them and the DT 48. There's just no contest when it comes to realism and coherence. The Senns quickly get congested with complex material and especially, lack detail in the highs. Music blurs quite frequently, even when amped with my Yamaha.

 

[kool bubba ice]

Thing is, you get that with higher end dynamic headphones as well.. There's a reason I sold all my headphones minus the DT48.. No, not lack of sanity..) The LCD2 MIGHT be the only true upgrade for under a grand.. Albeit, the DT48 still do some things I doubt any headphone can equal due to many things.. Made with NAGRA strict standards for one..The design, as illustrated in one of my blogs. Especially for the A models.. Making a headphone not made for music or market appeal allows you to go balls to the wall technically speaking, even Sen had to make the HD800 'user friendly.' without always thinking if they will sell well, or if the public will buy them. This is HUGE IMO.. & Beyer spends not one dime marketing the DT48 according to one Beyer marketing manager.. Pretty amazing.. Beyer must make a killing selling the DT48.. The R&D from 1937?? Parts cost, I'm sure are very low.. I'm sure professionals, labs, hospitals, buy them for MSRP or close to it.. So they are a win win for Beyer..
 
Quote:

I'm actually planning to get wooden covers for my DT 48. I don't think it'll change the sound much though, considering how someone once said they sound pretty much the same with or without the back covers.
 
I just put on my HD 428 for the first time in a while. They're good, but now, I really pick up the difference between them and the DT 48. There's just no contest when it comes to realism and coherence. The Senns quickly get congested with complex material and especially, lack detail in the highs. Music blurs quite frequently, even when amped with my Yamaha.

 

[REB]

I have tried my dt48 again with my little dot I+ amp and to my suprise they synergize well! the difference is that i took the ldI+ out of its set-up (with an old philips cdp as source) and hooked it up to the computer (flac-jriver-spdif-dac-output selector-solo/ldI+). I've also have had to roll the tubes (buzzing sound in both channels) so now i am back to the western electric 408a tubes (where before i had the wonderful sylvania 408a tubes). the dt48s sound very good, very detailed, very transparent, and fast. the soundstage is intimate (no surprise there) and imaging very accurate. Don't understand why this synergy wasn't there before (or at least wasn't noticed by me). I cannot imagine the philips cdp was so much worse than the flac-spdif-dac set-up.

 

[REB]

It sounds absolutely marvelous with Marvin Gaye's what's going on! Even Keane's sounds pretty good, despite the bassy recording.

 

[Soaa-]

I just got a Yamaha Audiogram 3 USB sound card today. To my ears, the output is clean and bass extends well. Performance seems on par with my Clip+ and my Yamaha CA-410 power amp.
 
I'm starting to get this feeling that audiophile gear (especially amps) is basically professional gear in a prettier box.

 

[jpelg]

Goodness knows I still want to hear these things. Particularly the 200-ohm E variant. I believe the famed unit formerly owned by J. Gordon Holt was 200-ohm. Can anyone speak to that model, or point to a post in this lengthy thread that does?
 
Also, how does Beyer achieve the different impedance values? Does the 200-ohm version have a different voicecoil, or is it simply a 25-ohm driver with resistors connected inside?