Originally Posted by Pricklely Peete /img/forum/go_quote.gif What ?
.........your 1st post at head fi .....you only have 1 chance to make a 1st impression my Grandmother always said......way to go Sven !!!!
Les....I don't know why your commentary brings out the loons but it's a either a gift or a curse
Peete.
Would you be kind enough to elaborate on that remark?
1st impression, huh? I am definitely not here to make any impression. I have been viewing this thread for a long time and have been very close to posting before but I just felt the urge too strong this time. The way I see it, it is completely possible to be respectful and viewing critically at the same time. I feel that Les has been a bit on the disrespectfull provocative side a couple of times in this thread. As have a couple of others, but there have not been much substance in their posts so those I've just read and been done with.
Speeking of respect and first impressions, I'm sorry to say that you haven't been very successful in that area with this last post of yours.
Well, I think we (as in some of us here) could very well fill numerous pages in this thread explaining ourselves, questioning each other etc. If anyone needs any clarification from me, please ask.
Thank you all for all of the info in this thread. Especially the one/those who started the thread and have been kind enough to share the info with the rest of us.
So it seems that this product is shooting to be the best in its price range. I think right now this may be my best option in a few months if I decide to upgrade from my Boa. However, a question remains.
What other products exactly is this Compass competing against? Are there really any other options for a USB DAC/Amp in the $200-$400 range? It is being marketed as an alternative to the Zero but it also looks to be much higher quality. If this product doesn't get shining reviews, what else should I look at, considering price really is a deal breaker for me?
Well there are a number of other USB/DACs in the $200-500 range. There's the Keces (152 I think), Meier Cantante.2, Travgans, Cute Beyond + Fubar II and plenty more I can't think of right now. Based on design and components it's really up in the air who it's going to compete against, it certainly has design components and features that interest me in comparing it against the Meier for example, so I'm definitely looking forward to the first impressions (and I may be one of the people providing those).
Do any of those DAC's also have an amp? I was under the impression that a DAC output was far to weak to drive a pair of headphones and would always need to be coupled with an amp. I am more in the market for either an amp and a DAC each costing about $150 for a total of $300, or a single device (like the compass) costing about $300. Possibly stretching to $350 and only to $400 is there is a massive breakpoint in cost/performance.
I haven't seen much insight as to which piece plays a more important role in the signal path (and sound quality) or if its generally not a good idea to buy a combo Amp/DAC unit. Something like the Compass sounds great to me, it is all contained in one unit and I don't have to buy any interconnects.
Edit: Just looked up a few of those. Looks like I have some research to do.
All those that I mentioned are DAC+amp devices like the Compass is.
The Cute Beyond + Fubar II are actually two separate units but together they cost a little more than $300 I believe. Travgans has a couple DAC + amp units for less than $300 I believe. The Fubar, Keces, Travgans and Meier all only offer USB as digital inputs I believe, whereas the Compass has three digital input options.
Originally Posted by DayoftheGreek /img/forum/go_quote.gif Do any of those DAC's also have an amp? I was under the impression that a DAC output was far to weak to drive a pair of headphones and would always need to be coupled with an amp. I am more in the market for either an amp and a DAC each costing about $150 for a total of $300, or a single device (like the compass) costing about $300. Possibly stretching to $350 and only to $400 is there is a massive breakpoint in cost/performance.
I haven't seen much insight as to which piece plays a more important role in the signal path (and sound quality) or if its generally not a good idea to buy a combo Amp/DAC unit. Something like the Compass sounds great to me, it is all contained in one unit and I don't have to buy any interconnects.
Edit: Just looked up a few of those. Looks like I have some research to do.
Yea, Im in similar predicament. Ive read that the amp is more important but what good is an amp if your best/only source is a stock XFi? Thats why Im leaning in this direction instead of the SOHA II. I presume that this has pre-amp capability in which case I could buy the amp later and have a truly nice set up that at least functioned well when it was simply a Compass.
Originally Posted by DayoftheGreek /img/forum/go_quote.gif So it seems that this product is shooting to be the best in its price range. I think right now this may be my best option in a few months if I decide to upgrade from my Boa. However, a question remains.
What other products exactly is this Compass competing against? Are there really any other options for a USB DAC/Amp in the $200-$400 range? It is being marketed as an alternative to the Zero but it also looks to be much higher quality. If this product doesn't get shining reviews, what else should I look at, considering price really is a deal breaker for me?
It looks like the pricepoint puts it out of the Zero range doesn't it.
I guess there is only so much speculation that I can do until this thing is reviewed huh? It is good to see lots of other cheap amp/DAC options that I may look into.
Is it safe to assume all of these will vastly (in terms of what I can expect from audio upgrades) outperform my D2 Boa in terms of amp and DAC? I would hope that the price increase alone would do it, but with more available space and a real AC power source is it fair to expect even more improvement than I would from just throwing some more money into another portable?
Edit: Les, Yes. I guess it does, depending on how large your price range is.
Originally Posted by sonicserve /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks les_garten for pointing me to this thread. I am in for one and ready to send payment. How can I know it is available to order?
Hi Glad to see you over from the Yulong thread. Be careful not to jump too soon. But we know what "wanting" something does to you!
If this box sounds good. The promo price will be $38 more than a Lawrence mod'd Zero for $220. With all the drama around the Zero QA and Zero Vendor QA that makes this the REAL DEAL if it can deliver the SQ.
When the price adjusts, it will have to be re-assessed for value. It sounds like the price may adjust to a FrankenZero price. I didn't buy Audio-gd's HDAMs when they were Promo'd and regretted it later when the price adjusted and i wanted one. They initially had a 2 for one sale.
Originally Posted by les_garten /img/forum/go_quote.gif When the price adjusts, it will have to be re-assessed for value. It sounds like the price may adjust to a FrankenZero price.
How much is a FrankenZero? I've wondered but never actually found what those things are going for.
Originally Posted by csroc /img/forum/go_quote.gif How much is a FrankenZero? I've wondered but never actually found what those things are going for.
Basically you buy a "zillion" parts from Prickly Peete for $50 or so and see if you can desolder and resolder on that POS Zero PCB without lifting all the traces on it. If you had to pay someone to do it, it would probably go for around $100-$150 in labor on top of the parts. The Zero board is difficult to work with if you are used to "Big Name" stuff by Sony, Western Digital, Panasonic, etc because of how thin the traces are and the fact that the thru holes are not metalized.
Interesting. I've read up on the Zero some in the past and have found it interesting. Really opened up a lot of opportunities for many people but I'd personally be looking for something higher grade on many levels, not just the FrankenZero mods (which is why I've never considered pursuing that path).
I have a friend who has been considering a Zero for himself, I hope he gets it so I can play with it
compared to a number of other DAC + amp options I have been looking at in the $300-almost500 range the Compass looks highly competitive, in many ways potentially a cut above so I'm hoping it really pulls it off.
Based on what you've said it sounds like someone looking to buy a completed FrankenZero would be looking at spending around $300 unless I'm mistaken. I would actually think the Compass could go beyond that after the promotional period but I guess we'll see.
Originally Posted by csroc /img/forum/go_quote.gif Interesting. I've read up on the Zero some in the past and have found it interesting. Really opened up a lot of opportunities for many people but I'd personally be looking for something higher grade on many levels, not just the FrankenZero mods (which is why I've never considered pursuing that path).
I have a friend who has been considering a Zero for himself, I hope he gets it so I can play with it
compared to a number of other DAC + amp options I have been looking at in the $300-almost500 range the Compass looks highly competitive, in many ways potentially a cut above so I'm hoping it really pulls it off.
Based on what you've said it sounds like someone looking to buy a completed FrankenZero would be looking at spending around $300 unless I'm mistaken. I would actually think the Compass could go beyond that after the promotional period but I guess we'll see.
Yes exactly. This thread was started by Curra because of the QC issues that were happening with Zero's. Very hit and miss. One day everything was great and the next Zero sent out was a wreck when you got it. I don't mean shipment damage, it was bad, stupid QC problems at the factory, or bad mods by he vendor. People felt they were getting ripped off by the builder and the vendors. They were for the most part not being supported well by the sellers. There were exceptions from a few sellers who did a good job. If you received a bad one, count on paying another $50 to send it back for a vacation in China, and your Zero got to pick up a few thousand frequent flyer miles. in the process.
This Compass product when the price adjusts will be more expensive than the Zero quite possibly. You can tell by the Pix alone that there is a great difference in the quality though. The soldering on the Zero's can be very poor, hit and miss again. Also, I have never heard of a single complaint about Audio-gd like the one's we had with the Zero's.
I can understand poor manufacturing on a Monday Morning or a Friday afternoon. I can understand damage by the modders. I can't understand the vendor just "writing you off" once he has your money though, and that's what was happening in a lot of instances with one of the Mod'd vendors. I'm sure we have not hurt his business that much in the global scheme of things. he's doing volumes, and we're just a group of enthusiasts in a relatively small number.
It seems Audio-gd is a different animal. We are dealing directly with the builder and his reputation. That should work out for us all if Audio-gd cares about their product and reputation as much as they seem to.
I am not sure there will be a direct competitor to the Zero in the end. That Price Point is a hard nut to crack and beat them. Curra and Peete will I'm sure compare and contrast these two products in detail. The Kewl thing here is that we were able to participate in the development.
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