[dotrunghieu]

That's a Big Boy.

 

[Gintaras]

P.S. I'm not sure how long A&K would last if Samsung and Apple got into the DAP market.

Eke, Samsung and Apple will never, ... I repeat it Never... will never go into high end hobby because that would be miniscule of the revenue they can make by selling mass products. You know we HeadFiers are fairly minority in global music consumption, even my daughter refused anything except iPhone and iPod despite i offered her my DX50 for free

What is pity for me is iRiver could care to do also good improvements to existing AK120 along with bringing new DAP.

But I do not worry anymore since X5 is out, Calyx M approaching and we will see more great DAPs down the road for every pocket.

 

[audionewbi]

Our concern is what impact might have on pricing of other brands. We all know human will is weak and with enough marketing a person who cannot afford a roll of bread is going to find a way to buy it. If they sale a lot of it it will be a good indicator for other brand that they can also follow the same pricing point.

Even iriver was puzzled on how well AK120 sold .

Sound is very subjective and sadly in our hobby there is no proper standard on price/performance ratio . There is no way an average consumer can know whether they are getting a good deal or an over glorified lemon.

I love the negative comments about price and calling A&K'S business model "shadey"!

Last I saw A&K is not twisting anyones arm to buy this player. If you truly think that a Fiio is better or has almost the same sound quality fine, go buy the Fiio. But to call A&K names as your doing says more about your value system that A&K's!

Likewise if you don't have the will power to resist the latest model, again, that says more about your personality that it does about A&K's business practices!

I feel under no pressure to buy this but if it has substantial improvements in sound quality over what I have now I may buy it or I may wait. Heck it took me almost ten years to jump on the download bandwagon!

 

[jude]

  P.S. I'm not sure how long A&K would last if Samsung and Apple got into the DAP market.

 
Still another red herring.
 
Samsung and Apple don't seem to have much interest in this comparatively finite market segment.
 

  "Everytime" has been precisely twice. The first time was the SE846, a product by a mainstream company with resources to produce an iem with the same capabilities and price it in a way that would encourage other makers to follow suit. Instead, they did the opposite. The second time is now, in this thread...

 
Ah, pardon my mistake then--perhaps it was your prolificness in that thread that had me mistaken. My bad.
 
By the way, what came of the SE846, your other doom-and-gloom example? One of the most lauded universal-fit in-ear monitors I've seen in a long time. Why? Because Shure pushed the envelope with that one. Have you ever seen an exploded view of that acoustic low-pass filter in it? Daring. Difficult to manufacturer and boldly unconventional (as far as in-ears go).
 
Through the SE846, those who are willing to spend the dough can get the best Shure could come up with at the time of its development. And those who aren't willing can still enjoy the SE535 and their even more affordable models.
 
The one thing the SE846 hasn't done is diminish the increasingly competitive market for affordable in-ear headphones. And if you think that the in-ear market hasn't come a long way, then you weren't around this hobby when we started Head-Fi in 2001.
 
I think we're going in a direction that may merit another thread, which you can feel free to start.
 
Let's keep this one on-topic. As a reminder: Astell&Kern AK240.

 

[eke2k6]

   
 
 
 
By the way, what came of the SE846, your other doom-and-gloom example? One of the most lauded universal-fit in-ear monitors I've seen in a long time. Why? Because Shure pushed the envelope with that one. Have you ever seen an exploded view of that acoustic low-pass filter in it? Daring. Difficult to manufacturer and boldly unconventional (as far as in-ears go).
 

 
This happened:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/698644/westone-signature-w-series-w50-w60
 
Yet again, it seems the point of my posts is missed. It's not the product in question, but the example it sets.
 
 
 
This is my last post in this thread.

 

[bmichels]

 
Has anyone mentioned anything about the screen... what else does it do other than show large images of shiny artwork.... also whats with the access to downloads, is this a smartDAP like the ibasso DX100? Would be good to see that real estate used for something.
 

Would like to have some sort of nice "mosaique" display to choose the albums...
 

 

[Gintaras]

Jude, speaking of ak240 can you tell how you found 240 ergonomics, i am especially wondering about edgy corners, not very convinient when you slide it into or pull out of your pocket IMHO. and of course we all curious to hear comparisons to HM901, Ak120 and possibly ZX1.

 

[jude]

 
This happened:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/698644/westone-signature-w-series-w50-w60

 
Did you hear the W60? (Rhetorical question, so please don't answer it.) Once again, you're railing with passion and vigor...about gear you haven't heard.
 
And still, the W60 is just as much a threat to destroy competition in the affordable headphone market that the SE846 was, in that it's no threat at all.
 
If the higher end being pushed out doesn't negatively affect competitiveness in the realm of more affordable products, I see no problem. It seems to me you're trying to support the fallacy that it somehow leads to less competitiveness in the market as a whole, and the destruction of the more affordable segment. We haven't seen that, and I wouldn't dare predict it (because it won't happen). In fact, competition in the market for affordable headphones (both in- an over-ear) seems to be intensifying, and we're seeing better products for the money because of it.
 
I think most customers truly interested in cutting-edge and high-end audio want to see companies keep pushing the envelope. I think it's clear you have no interest beyond a certain price point, and that's okay. Accept it.
 
I choose to drive an economy car. If reading about supercars bothered me (it doesn't), I'd stop reading about supercars.
 

  This is my last post in this thread.

 
Thanks.
 
Again, let's get this back on topic.

 

[Gintaras]

Eke, with all due respect you missing the point Jude is making.

as regards Shure sorry mate but if you would be a bit longer in music industry you would know that Shure brand name is legendary, some best mikes they made, OMG do i have to tell this here?

 

[DMinor]

What are the real innovations delivered by AK for the 240 in terms of sound quality? Someone please help and I want to know. I hope they didn't just changed some caps here and there to make it sound differently and then claim that as improvement in sound quality.
 
True innovations deserve a premium. Please tell me what the innovations are for AK240, not just it sounds better (which is still subject to individual's perception). But if you think the improvements in UI, looks and other non sound-related features contribute to the big hike in price, never mind then.

 

[jude]

Jude, speaking of ak240 can you tell how you found 240 ergonomics, i am especially wondering about edgy corners, not very convinient when you slide it into or pull out of your pocket IMHO. and of course we all curious to hear comparisons to HM901, Ak120 and possibly ZX1.

 
I have to carry it more to come to a determination about the corners, and if they'll present any issues for me. So far, no, but it's early.
 
As far as ergonomics, with respect to buttons/controls: it's easier to grip than its smaller siblings, so I find it easier to control one-handed. Of course, with the volume knob on the right side, I find it ideal to use held in the left hand and controlled with the right (like the other two A&K models).

 

[audionewbi]

I think the problem we have is we are used to seen innovation come at no cost. Every ear samsung and apple bring a much better product without the need to increase the prices, we are just having a hard time on why isnt that the case here? 
 
I am very well that it is a niche market, I am also quiet well aware that this nich market use the exact same machinaries to produce their product also, so why the price difference? Is R&D that much high for them? Perhaps that indicates the poor engineers they have for their design and development than anything.
 
I think the bulk of the cost is for the marketing. The majority of AK line is just adding minor tweaking on an already designed DAP (AK100MKII and AK120 Titan and all those other different color variety of AK100).
 
While there is a lot more labour is required for IEM and they have to built dozen and dozen of prototype in order to test the sound such tweaking is almost never carried for PCB designs. Only tweaking is made is on the exterior, interior is based on what signal path their engineers feel is right. This is why we have so many variety of design all using the same exact DAC and opamp chips. 
 
I am just fearful with the success of product that only winning point is their marketing department this hobby is going to be ruined for me.  As other companies realise they can follow the same philosophy it will be less likely I can buy and test gears like I could now. 

 

[fiascogarcia]

Frankly, this all works for me!  I'm not the hard core audiophile type that has to have the latest and greatest right away. Those that do, buy the new high end equipment, and I can buy their great used equipment at a more than fair price.  Thus, in fact, head-fi participation does perpetuate itself.  I could afford an AK240, but don't really feel that I need it just yet. Maybe down the road.  I want to take time to enjoy my equipment before I'm on to the next new thing.
 
Having said that, the AK240 has a great look, what appears to be a plenty of features (unique or not), and I'm sure, a marvelous sound. AK should sell it for whatever the hell price they want.  As I've suggested before, we're not talking about feeding the masses here, we're talking about feeding a hobby.  There is no ethical responsibility required here.
 
Sorry, I will now step down from my little soapbox. 

 

[fiascogarcia]

   
I have to carry it more to come to a determination about the corners, and if they'll present any issues for me. So far, no, but it's early.
 
As far as ergonomics, with respect to buttons/controls: it's easier to grip than its smaller siblings, so I find it easier to control one-handed. Of course, with the volume knob on the right side, I find it ideal to use held in the left hand and controlled with the right (like the other two A&K models).

Don't know if I'm in the minority, but I love the look.  A Lambo like DAP!

 

[bmichels]

  What are the real innovations delivered by AK for the 240 in terms of sound quality? Someone please help and I want to know. I hope they didn't just changed some caps here and there to make it sound differently and then claim that as improvement in sound quality.
 

 
I am still wondering why they moved from  Wolfson WM8740 to Cirrus Logic CS4398 ?  I'm Very [size=14.399999618530273px]skeptical[/size] !!
 
A logical step will have been, to go for Wolfson WM8741 that also can decode DSD  !  (and who care if a larger battery may have been needed ?)   
 
The  Cirrus Logic CS4398  has a reputation of being more for mainstream devices, not very top-of-the line !!!   Strange move !!