[toughnut]

decipher

anyway, i will choose neutral iem with equal emphasis on all freq. urghhh... i start talking about custom....

 

[energie]

well if you want to listen perfect music, the sound should be balanced with the most important parts played by the mids.

But i want to have fun listening to music and earing cristal high and great bass at the same time makes me excited.

I found this in the TF10.

Keep in ming i come from the shures.

 

[ClieOS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jinx20001 /img/forum/go_quote.gif ... but triple fi isnt.

I will also like to know why you are so sure, of course.

 

[jinx20001]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClieOS /img/forum/go_quote.gif I will also like to know why you are so sure, of course.

ok, first clue is westone...now they claim to be producing the first true 3 way universal earphones. now why would a reputable company like westone claim that if they knew it was untrue.

let me explain further, notice the word true?... this is westone's actual word used, and they use this word for a reason, that reason is this...westone already knows that there are 3 driver earphones on the market, but westone knew they were only 2 way earphones, so they wanted to go one step further and produce headphones where all the frequencies, lows, mids and highs were all seperated in different directions, no 2 frequency ranges use the same transducer. this is 3 way.

not only going by westone but the only other 3 way design i know of is the ue11 which used 4 drivers to seperate the frequencies 3 ways. i cant find any evidence right this second (but im searching trust me), read some professional ue11 reviews also and they should point out they are true 3 way and not 3 driver and 2 way like triple fi and shure se530.

ahh here, Ultimate Ears UE-11 Pro Custom Ear Monitors | iLounge

read that review of the ue11, and it will point out the difference between a triple crossover and a normal 2 way one.

edit: while your at it you may aswell read this triple fi review and let us know what you think. Ultimate Ears triple.fi 10 Pro Earphones | iLounge

by the way i didnt say i agree or disagree with the reviews but i will say the ue11 review is a bit unfair, but i wouldnt know since not having owned them

 

[hockeyb213]

just wanted to say if your looking to improve the sound of the tf10's get the null audio cable I noticed a big improvement with mine that came in today

 

[jinx20001]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeyb213 /img/forum/go_quote.gif just wanted to say if your looking to improve the sound of the tf10's get the null audio cable I noticed a big improvement with mine that came in today

ive always been sceptical about cables making a difference, all they do is improve signal response but its minor as far as ive ever tried, not that ive tried many, no actually i hav'nt tried many, whats your opinions on how it improves??

 

[hockeyb213]

Well cable makes the least improvement in a rig in all reality. BUT I found that the null-audio cable tightened up the bass quite a bit and the highs are crystal clear and mids are silky smooth for 50 bucks + shipping (may have changed since I got it /shrug) it is def. worth it

 

[ClieOS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jinx20001 /img/forum/go_quote.gif ok, first clue is westone...now they claim to be producing the first true 3 way universal earphones. now why would a reputable company like westone claim that if they knew it was untrue...

It is the words of Westone against UE , and both are claiming they have 3-ways IEM. I am not saying either are lying, but unless there is a third official party (some kind of survey or record book) keeping the score, I generally take them as half-marketing material, not the absolute truth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jinx20001 /img/forum/go_quote.gif ... ahh here, Ultimate Ears UE-11 Pro Custom Ear Monitors | iLounge read that review of the ue11, and it will point out the difference between a triple crossover and a normal 2 way one. edit: while your at it you may aswell read this triple fi review and let us know what you think. Ultimate Ears triple.fi 10 Pro Earphones | iLounge ...

I must said I notice something very intriguing (bear w/ me here):

iLounge Triple.fi review dated October 2, 2006 (first batch, limited edition TF10).
Westone 3 announcement dated January 5, 2007.
iLounge UE11 review dated August 16, 2007.

IIRC, the early / first batch / limited edition TF10 announcement / advertisement / review don't involve any talking about 3-ways crossover. It was not till sometime mid/late last year (2007) that UE started to change the marketing material to include 3-ways crossover promoting material. If you read the last part before the conclusion of iLoundge's UE11 review, it said (and I quoted):

Quote:

Some readers might wonder how the quadruple-driver UE-11 Pro compares to Ultimate Ears’ $400 triple.fi 10 Pro, and our answer is this: your findings may vary. Ultimate Ears told us that it had changed the sound of the triple.fi 10 following our review (and, we think, its initial shipments) last year, so the “final” pair we have here may or may not sound like someone else’s.* Our triple.fi 10 adds a bit of bass and treble accentuation to the more neutral UE-10 Pro, and UE-11 Pro goes even further, proving decidedly more capable of revealing low-end detail, but also skewing the sound more towards the mid-range and low-end.

*Dating b/w October 2, 2006 and August 16, 2007

So, if you are keeping track on the initial TF10 sale (first batch / limited edition), you will notice the early sale carried till sometime early~mid 2007 (after the January announcement of Westone 3), and than UE "changed the sound of the triple.fi 10" before August of the same years (second or maybe the third batch) and we start to see promoting material on UE's website about the 3-ways crossover after that (UE's words: "Housed within the universal body are three individual speakers and an integrated passive crossover circuit board that directs the low-end frequencies to a dedicated speaker for bass, the mid-range frequencies to a speaker for the vocals and the high frequencies to a speaker dedicated for treble."). UE never make another announcement about the sound change and I am sure most people who read the iLounge UE11 review never take too much notice at that either.

Now I know it is probably a bit far fetch to conclude that the current TF10 does come w/ 3-ways crossover, but the time line seems to fit just right, wouldn't you said so? It certainly pointed out the possibility that UE has made some change to the original TF10 - of which and to what extension is what missing here. It has been almost 2 years since the original Westone 3 announcement (yet we haven't seen it). Lets just say the news about 'first true 3 ways' is a bit outdated now (consider it is still in R&D). Not only TF10, E500 is now SE530 (than it comes with new cable), Audio-Techinca has their own triple-drive (ATH-CK100, IIRC), and we have a few companies making triple drives custom as well. Time has changed, and so are a lot of things.

 

[toughnut]

Very interesting find, ClieOS.

I also noticed bout the TF10P tweak comment in iLounge while deciding which IEM to get but didnt pay much attention since what most people are using right now are newer version of TF10P.

 

[jingles_97]

Don't know anything about the UEs, but I can honestly say this, IEMs are extremely sensitive to how they are positioned in your ear canal, and the fit. When I got my Shure 530s, I tried all the tips provided by Shure, but never got a good balanced sound. Then I tried the Comply tips. Wow, the difference is probably bigger than any amps could have made. The human outer ear is an attenuator, an attenuator that your brain is accustomed to. When you mess with the sound equation by jamming things into your outer ear, doesn't matter if a phone's measured response curve is flat or skewed, funny things can happen. If something is not working out for you, you can first try different tips and fit, and trust your own judgement.

 

[energie]

you are right jingles, my TF10 are night and day wuth complys.

Finally UE include them in the box.

 

[qusp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClieOS /img/forum/go_quote.gif ' I will like to read about those documents, please send me the links. Thanks. Also, I don't think your description on the crossover is right.

I read about it when I was researching to decide whether to get triple or SE530 almost 6 months ago I dont keep links to every article I read; and I dont have the time or inclination to search again through all of it just to continue this argument. You have a search but the fact that your article mentions that te crossover sends these frequencies to 3 drivers doesn't mean that its a 3 way crossover; more likely a 2 way crossover and some way for the drivers to filter out whats meant for them or not ie/ caps or something equivalent.

and BTW are you going to back up your statement about my description being inaccurate? or are you just going to make an empty statement. I'm happy to be proved wrong if it means I learn something; I never professed to be an expert, but you cant just say something is wrong and leave it at that, without providing a counter argument. what exactly about my explaination is wrong?? or can you just feel it in your bones

BTW the band pass filter for the mids in a 3 way design in turn consists of a LPF and a HPF. a 2 way crossover has 2 filter sections and a 3 way had 3 filter sections thats all there is to it. not much to argue about there unless you just like arguing

 

[qusp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by energie /img/forum/go_quote.gif you are right jingles, my TF10 are night and day wuth complys. Finally UE include them in the box.

same with the shures the comply tips are by far the best foamies around for any IEM IMO

 

[ClieOS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by qusp /img/forum/go_quote.gif You have a search but the fact that your article mentions that te crossover sends these frequencies to 3 drivers doesn't mean that its a 3 way crossover; more likely a 2 way crossover and some way for the drivers to filter out whats meant for them or not ie/ caps or something equivalent.

Mate, the info I quoted is directly from UE's website, under TF10 features. As I said before, it is the words of Westone against the words of UE, and I don't take either lightly and you shouldn't too.

Your argument about the crossover is really stretching too far. If a speaker has three transducer and one handles treble, one handles mid, while the last one handles bass, what will you call it? Three ways of course!!! You seems to have the mindset that the crossover must end at the crossover circuit board, while it is definitely not the case. Again, as I said before, there are many ways of designing crossover beyond just the circuit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by qusp /img/forum/go_quote.gif and BTW are you going to back up your statement about my description being inaccurate? ...

I thought you might realize your description of TF10's drives is wrong when you read back your post (since I already quoted the section out), guess I assumed too much. TF10 has a dual receiver low freq. driver and one single receiver high freq. driver, which you descried in reverse.

Quote:

Originally Posted by qusp /img/forum/go_quote.gif ...the triple use 2 drivers for the upper mids and highs where the SE530 utilizes 2 drivers for bass/lower mids and one driver for the highs...

BTW, your description of TF10, thought wrong, matches Audio-Technica ATH-CK100 design. Just thought you might want to know.

 

[qusp]

why would I realize that I was wrong just because of some promotional material quoted loosely from UE's own site?? especially when its actually a bit vaguely worded. the 3 way 'crossover' is what designates a speaker or headphone to be 3 way how can I put it any more simply than that. as as you can have more drivers in a speaker than crossovers. try reading some material that isn't put together by a manufacturer will you. I dunno maybe an encyclopedia or something. and maybe try and base you suppositions on more than one assumption regarding when the driver design changed. if it changed all of a sudden dont you think they would've made some noise about? instead of it passing largely unnoticed. if it truly is a 3 way design then its a pretty shocking one because the mids are actually quite recessed. anyway enough he said she said stuff based on promos and advertorials get some hard facts will you. i'm wondering why it hasn't been noted in a review here; dont you think one of the guys wouldve noticed that the whole SQ profile and design of the triple-fi (one of the most popular high end IEMs here) had changed. or do you think every major in depth review here has been wrong all along. this is getting boring, but if you can actually come up with some facts ie. measurements or a pro-review that mentions the new crossover design then i'll eat my words. you say its not a shure, UE, westone thing but you sure seem to be spending a lot of timne and effort trying to trawl through the interweb for 'facts' to prove that UE's is a 3 way design; ive had enough