[angelom]

I hope you enjoy surprises!

Not all surprises are good, but your purchase of the ST is a good surprise.

I started my new job and my salary has dramatically increased (10x!) so I can afford to collect headphones. The joy of discovery, even if its something I end up not liking, is worth it/exciting!

Congratulations about your big increase in salary.

In the past, I have owned several pairs of neutral tuned headphones (HD600 perhaps the pinnacle of neutral tuning) and I ended up always wanting more bass.

I own the HD600 and, yes, is very neutral but the bass, specially more low bass, is lacking, so in this aspect the ST is clearly better, and this is in HQ mode.

However, for electronic music (about 80% of my music listening) there isn't a such thing as real timbre (its all synthetic) and a nice mid bass emphasis is overall pleasure-able to my ear. A funny manifestation of this is so far Ive found I prefer non HQ mode to HQ mode for electronic music. This makes sense if you compare the FRC for the two modes:

As you can see the solt T in HQ mode (gold) has a relative sub and mid bass cut compared to baseline!

The graph is referring to the difference between HQ mode and ANC on, not about BT-only mode (where both HQ mode and ANC are off) and HQ mode. ANC on mode have boost in bass comparing to both HQ mode and BT-only mode, so for people that liking more bass is natural having a preference for ANC mode. ANC on is good for me in the airplane where the little bass boost is welcome / necessary, but not in quiet environment (for me).

The good thing about the ANC boost in the ST is that this isn't so big boost like the bass boost of ANC on mode in the 5909 where the difference is very big between ANC on and off (5909 don't have HQ mode, only ANC off or on).

 

[polymathic]

AP2?

Meant APP2. AirPods Pro 2.

 

[Benesyed]

Not all surprises are good, but your purchase of the ST is a good surprise.



Congratulations about your big increase in salary.



I own the HD600 and, yes, is very neutral but the bass, specially more low bass, is lacking, so in this aspect the ST is clearly better, and this is in HQ mode.



The graph is referring to the difference between HQ mode and ANC on, not about BT-only mode (where both HQ mode and ANC are off) and HQ mode. ANC on mode have boost in bass comparing to both HQ mode and BT-only mode, so for people that liking more bass is natural having a preference for ANC mode. ANC on is good for me in the airplane where the little bass boost is welcome / necessary, but not in quiet environment (for me).

The good thing about the ANC boost in the ST is that this isn't so big boost like the bass boost of ANC on mode in the 5909 where the difference is very big between ANC on and off (5909 don't have HQ mode, only ANC off or on).

anc on/off is pretty much the same which is very very impressive. The reviewer pointed out that anc on/off has almost no effect on FRC

 

[angelom]

anc on/off is pretty much the same which is very very impressive. The reviewer pointed out that anc on/off has almost no effect on FRC

This is strange because I can hearing clearly a difference between ANC on and off (BT-only mode) and HQ mode (BT-only mode and HQ mode are more similar in tonal balance, by the way, than when using ANC on). And that graph is NOT showing the clear difference I'm hearing.

Where do you seeing this review with graphs (do you have a link?) because I don't remember seeing this before (maybe is a long time ago??)

 

[Benesyed]

This is strange because I can hearing clearly a difference between ANC on and off (BT-only mode) and HQ mode (BT-only mode and HQ mode are more similar in tonal balance, by the way, than when using ANC on). And that graph is NOT showing the clear difference I'm hearing.

Where do you seeing this review with graphs (do you have a link?) because I don't remember seeing this before (maybe is a long time ago??)

Its a reviewer on head fi here it is:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/t-a-solitaire-t.26219/reviews

 

[TheOneInYellow]

Its a reviewer on head fi here it is:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/t-a-solitaire-t.26219/reviews

This was posted pre-app release later in Dec '22 (thus prior to the very first firmware update), so we must consider the graphs as a good guide, but potentially not an accurate showcase of the current digital tuning* of the Solitaire T.
*Not DSP but the ANC and HQ mode changes made by firmware updates, specifically volume increases.

That said, I'm enjoying your experiences with the Solitaire T and posting them here.

From what I rem, I didn't think it was possible to have both HQ mode and ANC on simultaneously, but on certain music ANC does introduce small amounts of harmonic distortion and bass boost, which can be excellent (Aphex Twin, Bonobo, Bicep, etc).
However, as @angelom has mentioned, my extensive listening to the Solitaire T in either HQ mode, or, in my case, balanced mode, allowed me to enjoy the natural higher quality voicing of the Solitaire T over ANC or any EQ preset.

I'm also very impressed that the Head-Fi reviewer post notes how similar the Solitaire T is to the mighty DCA Stealth headphones, one of the finest neutral headphones on the market! That makes my investment just that more wonderful!

 

[angelom]

Its a reviewer on head fi here it is:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/t-a-solitaire-t.26219/reviews

Ok, I remember very well now! That is the excellent review by @Piotr Michalak. The is why the graphs looking familiar. He posting this review in 9 December 2022, 9 months ago.

I remember very well, too, that I mentioning, specially in the early days, how very close all the 4 modes (BT-only, ANC on, HQ and passive) are in tonal balance and that this is very excellent (they are still very close, but ANC on is more different than the other 3 modes). I don't using ANC at all except when travelling (4 airplane trips until today since I purchasing the ST). So, is very possible that T+A deciding modifying the ANC FR a little with a firmware update because I can hearing very easily the bass boost (not a big boost like in others ANC headphones) when ANC is on. A little bass boost for loud environments is not bad because this frequency is more difficult hearing when you having (a lot of) noise outside. I use my ST primarily at home in very quiet environment.

 

[Benesyed]

This was posted pre-app release later in Dec '22 (thus prior to the very first firmware update), so we must consider the graphs as a good guide, but potentially not an accurate showcase of the current digital tuning* of the Solitaire T.
*Not DSP but the ANC and HQ mode changes made by firmware updates, specifically volume increases.

That said, I'm enjoying your experiences with the Solitaire T and posting them here.

From what I rem, I didn't think it was possible to have both HQ mode and ANC on simultaneously, but on certain music ANC does introduce small amounts of harmonic distortion and bass boost, which can be excellent (Aphex Twin, Bonobo, Bicep, etc).
However, as @angelom has mentioned, my extensive listening to the Solitaire T in either HQ mode, or, in my case, balanced mode, allowed me to enjoy the natural higher quality voicing of the Solitaire T over ANC or any EQ preset.

I'm also very impressed that the Head-Fi reviewer post notes how similar the Solitaire T is to the mighty DCA Stealth headphones, one of the finest neutral headphones on the market! That makes my investment just that more wonderful!

Yes it is totally possible that post update they added a little bass boost to the ANC. I have not really used the ANC mode. Actually on initial impression I like non HQ mode, followed by HQ + bass boost, then HQ mode. This is likely two things at play.

1) I think some of that is just letting my ears adjust to a new tuning.
2) I know my general preference is a more full bodied sound (the Atrium Closed is by far my favorite default no EQ applied tuning currently for closed back headphones). This is reflected in my general biases and preferences in music.

Currently I am just going to give myself a week or so to stick in HQ mode even though i am itching to switch back to a more bass forward sound.

Regardless my biggest point remains, these are 80-90% there for most people in terms of sound quality/reproduction. The EQ friendliness takes that number to 95%, I think. There will always be people who for a variety of reasons prefer a different sound.

 

[TheOneInYellow]

Yes it is totally possible that post update they added a little bass boost to the ANC. I have not really used the ANC mode. Actually on initial impression I like non HQ mode, followed by HQ + bass boost, then HQ mode. This is likely two things at play.

1) I think some of that is just letting my ears adjust to a new tuning.
2) I know my general preference is a more full bodied sound (the Atrium Closed is by far my favorite default no EQ applied tuning currently for closed back headphones). This is reflected in my general biases and preferences in music.

Currently I am just going to give myself a week or so to stick in HQ mode even though i am itching to switch back to a more bass forward sound.

Regardless my biggest point remains, these are 80-90% there for most people in terms of sound quality/reproduction. The EQ friendliness takes that number to 95%, I think. There will always be people who for a variety of reasons prefer a different sound.

100%, nailed it!

And as you pointed out, Solitaire T are good for EQ'ing, so you get benefits of the natural sound plus any adjustments to suit your tastes!
This is far easier than on heavily DSP based headphones, or passive headphones tuned away from a neutral voicing.

 

[Benesyed]

100%, nailed it!

And as you pointed out, Solitaire T are good for EQ'ing, so you get benefits of the natural sound plus any adjustments to suit your tastes!
This is far easier than on heavily DSP based headphones, or passive headphones tuned away from a neutral voicing.

Yes. Don't get me wrong, its not like I think they are the best headphones ever, but they are truly impressive for how good they sound in such a small compact package.

Oh also another positive compared to ML5909; the app connectivity is SO much better. Its not perfect, it might take a second to realize its connected, but it pretty much always does. ML5909 its a process ahaha.

A curve like this seems to sound better to my ears for example

 

[angelom]

I have not really used the ANC mode. Actually on initial impression I like non HQ mode, followed by HQ + bass boost, then HQ mode.

Is very strange that you're preferring non HQ mode ("ANC off" is the official name when you pressing the physical button for cycling the 3 modes, or BT-only is how I'm always calling this mode) than HQ mode. Why? Not only because everybody here, and in all others reviews, saying that HQ is giving better sound than BT-only mode, but because HQ mode is a little more full sounding and having better resolution. This is why I'm thinking before that maybe is ANC on (with little more bass presence) that you're listening and preferring that than HQ mode.

But anyway, your preference is your preference and, of course, is 100% valid.

 

[Benesyed]

Is very strange that you're preferring non HQ mode ("ANC off" is the official name when you pressing the physical button for cycling the 3 modes, or BT-only is how I'm always calling this mode) than HQ mode. Why? Not only because everybody here, and in all others reviews, saying that HQ is giving better sound than BT-only mode, but because HQ mode is a little more full sounding and having better resolution. This is why I'm thinking before that maybe is ANC on (with little more bass presence) that you're listening and preferring that than HQ mode.

But anyway, your preference is your preference and, of course, is 100% valid.

I just like a little more mid-bass that the HQ tuning.

 

[angelom]

I just like a little more mid-bass that the HQ tuning.

Yes, I understand very well your preference, but what I'm saying, and I must insisting, is that HQ mode is have more full sound, same, at least, or (and this is how I'm hearing this mode) little more mid bass than your preference of 'non HQ' mode ("ANC off" or BT-only for me). And I repeat, this is why I'm thinking all this time that is ANC on mode that you're really preferring, and NOT really ANC off, than HQ mode.

 

[TheOneInYellow]

Thought I posted earlier but obviously I hadn't ha ha!

ZP Productions review of the T+A Solitaire T

A lovely succint review from a small YouTube content creator, with extraordinary comparisons to TOTL headphones for reference.

I mostly agree with the reviewer too, but as we all know, the Solitaire T are too difficult to cover every area in detail in short reviews, but this is a very good one (imo)!

 

[angelom]

Thought I posted earlier but obviously I hadn't ha ha!

ZP Productions review of the T+A Solitaire T

A lovely succint review from a small YouTube content creator, with extraordinary comparisons to TOTL headphones for reference.

I mostly agree with the reviewer too, but as we all know, the Solitaire T are too difficult to cover every area in detail in short reviews, but this is a very good one (imo)!

I posting a link for the same review here 7 days ago.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/t-a-solitaire-t-wireless-headphone.964925/page-96#post-17723557