[Calle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by foo_me /img/forum/go_quote.gif The capitol reference has digital input so you can use it as a DAC from your PC. I did it with the older Audio Aero Capitole MK2 SE with great results. Used an Empirical Audio offramp turbo as the usb-spdif converter. Not as good as using the Capitole itself, but close enough that I didn't feel the need to get another DAC or do anything else.

Well suck me sideways. That's pretty good news in my ears! Think I'll add that unit to the cart then. Thanks for the tip.

 

[spritzer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by foo_me /img/forum/go_quote.gif btw, haven't heard a maxxed out one, but i was happy with the stock and didn't really feel the need to upgrade it so am somewhat skeptical that it's a good value. Would put more money into a better source, ICs, tubes with the xtra money from getting a stock, upgraded es-1 vs. a maxxed out one.

It's hard to believe that the phones can sound much better with a more expensive amp but it does improve a lot. My issue with the ES-1 is that it is overpriced but without anybody producing a Blue Hawaii at a lower price it's hard to recommend anything else in the price range.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl /img/forum/go_quote.gif The distortion spectrum of BZ7s is terrible. With his budget he can use 26s/10s/45s/50s/etc with no feedback. Sure, I haven't heard an ES-1, but I do understand what's going on electrically inside there, it's not run off magic pixie dust. I wouldn't tell someone not to explore the ES-1 if they were looking at spending $4-5k, but at $14k the world is pretty much your oyster, you can have just about any topology and design you want. That means no feedback, transformer phase splitting, optimised current loops, extremely tight but also sonically pleasing regulation using multiple chokes or current sources, and so forth are all completely affordable and practical options.

A well designed DHT amp with a massive PSU is hard to surpass.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calle /img/forum/go_quote.gif I won't get a maxed out version of the ES-1, but I do intend on adding some of the extra options that can be provided. As for source I have been looking at the Audio Aero Capitole Reference. Seems I can get a very good deal on that. I also want a proper source (DAC) for listening to music from PC. With that said I need to switch all my 320 tunes with lossless, but that's no problem. As for which DAC I should choose I don't know. I have looked at a couple but haven't decided yet. So far there is the LessLoss, Transporter and Benchmark.

You could always get a CDP with a digital input or a transport/DAC combo. A computer based solution will not match a well designed and built CDP but the convenience is hard to match.

 

[Calle]

Ok. I hear push pull and I hear DHT. But I need to see links to people who sell these, otherwise I won't get anywhere. All I get from googling is DIY.

 

[Riboge]

To chime in as another ES-1 owner, I just don't know what could be the basis for saying this is not the top choice for an electrostatic headphone amp or that it would be so easy to build a better one for less. How come no one has then? The idea of evaluating an amp for audiophile use by looking inside or at a schematic without also listening to it at length is just an insult to all makers of fine finished amps which are ultimately developed and tuned for how they sound not how impressive their innards are. Mine has some upgrades but was far less than $14k and makes my HE90s emit pure glory.

 

[Roam]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl /img/forum/go_quote.gif The distortion spectrum of BZ7s is terrible. With his budget he can use 26s/10s/45s/50s/etc with no feedback. Sure, I haven't heard an ES-1, but I do understand what's going on electrically inside there, it's not run off magic pixie dust. I wouldn't tell someone not to explore the ES-1 if they were looking at spending $4-5k, but at $14k the world is pretty much your oyster, you can have just about any topology and design you want. That means no feedback, transformer phase splitting, optimised current loops, extremely tight but also sonically pleasing regulation using multiple chokes or current sources, and so forth are all completely affordable and practical options.

Exactly. At the $14k level I'd be looking at all DHT tubes, CCS's everywhere, transformer phase splitting & coupling, and centre-tapped choke outputs. Anything less is a compromise. The only issue is someone will have to custom design and build the amps, as amps on this level are not commercially available, anywhere.

 

[Calle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roam /img/forum/go_quote.gif Exactly. At the $14k level I'd be looking at all DHT tubes, CCS's everywhere, transformer phase splitting & coupling, and centre-tapped choke outputs. Anything less is a compromise. The only issue is someone will have to custom design and build the amps, as amps on this level are not commercially available, anywhere.

My point exactly! And where does that leave me?

 

[Roam]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calle /img/forum/go_quote.gif My point exactly! And where does that leave me?

I believe Singlepower has made custom one-off builds in the past, specifically, the Kevin Gilmore Blue Hawaii electrostatic amp. All you'd have to do now is find a design for them to build, and convince them to build it.

 

[morphsci]

While I generally agree with both Carl and Spritzers opinions, in this case I will have to respectfully disagree. First off, value is a personal decision, most people think its silly to spend $50 on headphones so we are already in the tail of the curve. Second, I think any opinion of the value of a product does not have much value unless you have heard the component you are expounding upon. Otherwise we are simply back to the same old Grado RA-1 arguement repackaged in an electrostatic casing.

I will agree that SP amps are on the higher side compared to some others, but much of that is because there is no single ES-1. There are so many "standard" options that it is likely that there are no two ES-1's out there that are configured exactly the same. Then take into account that you have the designer to confer with and you are able to create the exact amp you want, not close, but exactly what you want with pretty much any option you may want. Lastly, SP amps have many tube choices which can fine tune the amp. many of those choices are the result of having a very robust power supply (contrary to some of the implications in previous posts, by non-owners).

Stating that there are any number of builders out there that will build the OP an amp is also not very helpful; who are they? In reality, if you are going to use another source with not much feedback you had better have a lot of knowledge yourself or trust the person doing the work a lot. A more helpful suggestion is for the OP to perhaps check out Woo Audio or McAlister Audio as alternatives.

Anyway I will post my ES-1 configuration in this thread with comments on why I went with the options I did as I think that will be the most helpful to the OP (and others). I realize I will thus be putting myself out there for my choices, but I've gotten over such concerns long ago.

Lastly, please do not think I am an SP fanboy. In my upcoming review of my ES-1 I do have some comments concerning attention to detail of the final product. However as far as the sound, there is not a problem so in that regards I do not consider the ES-1 overpriced or a poor value.

 

[Negatron]

You would be well served to spend some time considering the words of dste6, granodemostasa & morphsci.

You are begining with a digital source which requires a great deal of sophistication to actually have the output match the input. Thinking that digital is a simple process of faithfully passing 1's and zero's on and on is a gross misconception.

If those issues can be addressed to your satisfaction, and brought to a conclusion, then you need to seek an amplifier that compliments that solution.

 

[Guss2]

So you guys both agree that your whole basis for dismissing an amp or amps is based solely on price,because you are both such an authority on the subject,right?Gary.

 

[Icarium]

Yeah I don't think the OP is opposed to buying one of the more sophisticated amps that you guys are describing at alllll, but merely needs to be pointed to a reliable builder with some good feedback/reviews.

 

[spritzer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by morphsci /img/forum/go_quote.gif While I generally agree with both Carl and Spritzers opinions, in this case I will have to respectfully disagree. First off, value is a personal decision, most people think its silly to spend $50 on headphones so we are already in the tail of the curve. Second, I think any opinion of the value of a product does not have much value unless you have heard the component you are expounding upon. Otherwise we are simply back to the same old Grado RA-1 arguement repackaged in an electrostatic casing. I will agree that SP amps are on the higher side compared to some others, but much of that is because there is no single ES-1. There are so many "standard" options that it is likely that there are no two ES-1's out there that are configured exactly the same. Then take into account that you have the designer to confer with and you are able to create the exact amp you want, not close, but exactly what you want with pretty much any option you may want. Lastly, SP amps have many tube choices which can fine tune the amp. many of those choices are the result of having a very robust power supply (contrary to some of the implications in previous posts, by non-owners). Stating that there are any number of builders out there that will build the OP an amp is also not very helpful; who are they? In reality, if you are going to use another source with not much feedback you had better have a lot of knowledge yourself or trust the person doing the work a lot. A more helpful suggestion is for the OP to perhaps check out Woo Audio or McAlister Audio as alternatives. Anyway I will post my ES-1 configuration in this thread with comments on why I went with the options I did as I think that will be the most helpful to the OP (and others). I realize I will thus be putting myself out there for my choices, but I've gotten over such concerns long ago. Lastly, please do not think I am an SP fanboy. In my upcoming review of my ES-1 I do have some comments concerning attention to detail of the final product. However as far as the sound, there is not a problem so in that regards I do not consider the ES-1 overpriced or a poor value.

The ES-1 is far from being a RA-1 in an electrostatic guise. It doesn't have a wood enclosure...

I don't have a problem with spending huge amounts on headphones, speakers, amps etc. but I do have a keen sense of value. I know how much the parts cost and how much time and effort goes into an amp, both the design and build. Still it's fun to see people buying something fully loaded but the poster should know what he wants before ordering.

The open ended configuration of the ES-1 is a bad idea IMO as I'd much rather have a well chosen fixed tube lineup and spend the rest of the money on better parts. Better not tell the SP fanboys or all hell will break loose.

I still remember the epidemic surrounding the SP build quality issues even though the ES-1 seems to be suffering from those. Not checking if a connector is wired the right way before shipping out is unforgivable as if it is wired in a certain way the phones will burn up. Burning up a SR-Ω is a crime...

To find a suitable builder search Google for "Custom Tube Amplifiers" or you can contact somebody like Blackie Pagano who has built amps for dynamic phones. It's also wise to search AA and other forums for feedback but above all else, you need to know what you want. Woo Audio and McAlister Audio are certainly options as well and both should be able to design an build a high power ES amp. Their current offering are more down to earth though. One more option is the new Blue Hawaii SE from Headamp. I've seen some pics and it should be a nice amp but the purist in me likes the old design more.

 

[Calle]

A fellow head-fi'er has pointed me in a different direction. A pair of L3000 with a proper amp. This sounds very good, but when I heard the Stax at a local store I was floored by them and it wasn't even the top model. I got so into the music I got chills. But again, the bass was a bit lacking, that's why I am looking at the ES-1. Maybe I need to hear the L3000's as well?

 

[spritzer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calle /img/forum/go_quote.gif A fellow head-fi'er has pointed me in a different direction. A pair of L3000 with a proper amp. This sounds very good, but when I heard the Stax at a local store I was floored by them and it wasn't even the top model. I got so into the music I got chills. But again, the bass was a bit lacking, that's why I am looking at the ES-1. Maybe I need to hear the L3000's as well?

I would sample as many of the top tier cans you can as while they are all good, they are also all different. When you climb this high in the ladder, personal choice becomes a major factor along with musical taste and other preferences.

 

[Calle]

What about the Rudistor Egmont Signature electrostatic amp?