[mksuen]

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Originally Posted by Limberger /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
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Do any of you guys use an E7 with Grado's?? I'm curious about this little device and thinking I might trade a mod kit for one.....
 

I too am wondering how grados sound with the E7. I'm intending on picking one up mainly for the DAC and the possibility of getting an E9 later. If I'm able to snag one shortly, I'll be sure to write about it.
 

 
Its sounds pretty darn good. I haven't had a chance to really listen to it with a better DAC for any sort of extended period of time, but you won't be disappointed with the E7. Right now I regularly listen to my grados out of my E9. I have a little dot 2+ but grados sound better out of the E9. The LD2+ is more for the fostex and d2000.

 

[lawrywild]

what is supposed to be absorbed by the dynamat would instead be reflected off the foil as it's not absorbant like dynamat. Pure theory.

Sound =/= light

Dynamat's purpose there is only to add weight to the plate, not to absorb stray sound waves.

Also I think the guy above was talking about the holes in the magnet plate, not the driver venting ones.

 

[Saintkeat]

Soft substances like cork and sponge are to absorb sound right? So any metallic material would naturally reflect sound yes?

And I was under the impression that dynamat was used to absorb the vibration from the driver so the highs won't be so shrill. Never knew it was to add weight.. Oh wells learn something new everyday.

And my post was in reference to the one above his, in case you weren't following.

 

[eclein]

When I was doing the mods for the very first time I would make a change, listen, listen to some Ultrasones I have for comparison and if that was a positive experience I'd move on to the next mod. I used the Ultrasones (Alienware Branded Ozma) as my cans for several years when I was still recording. They were to me at that time "the best I ever heard". It didn't take long for the Grado's to catch the ozma cans and then leave them in the dust sputtering for air...LOL...help me!! aahhhh!!
 These are some of the notes I took before,during and after each mod.
1) Removed the white linen looking stuff (

) 
 "not a big change, subtle but there, if doing another pair I'd say this mod is optional and hope other mods do more than this one"
2) Instead of cutting a hole in the foam earpads I just bought the Lg Cushion (bowls) "these are the most comfortable things", "I forget I'm wearing headphones-feel asleep with them on last night"
3) Using a hairdryer I heated up the shells and took them apart- "it takes alot of heat to get these babies to loosen up", "it seems like most of the glue is in the corner of the cap holding both the screen mesh and the shell cap on" ..."I actually had the balls to do it-yes!!!"
4) "using a Ballpoint pen I punched four holes in the linen covered disk around the driver", "..so i wonder if location of the holes (more up top, or off to one side make a difference in the sound" , "much better bass, now I understand, these f_ckin mods work" , "this is so cool that we are able to customize the sound, kinda like tube rolling-NOT!!"
 Compared to my Ultrasones the Grado's are catching up, all along the way to this point the Ultrasones always sounded better but opening the shells and doing these mods has almost caught the Grado's up- I still have a bunch more I can do-this is cool!!!!
5) Bilavideo is sending me some shells-awesome- he seems like a nice guy, another guy from the head-fi thread sent me some extra Dynamat he had, enough for four drivers(totally cool how everybody helps each other to get better sound) So do I leave to foil on the Dynamat? I asked the folks and they responded "yes leave it on its part of the Dynamat system"- ***** THIS IS THE MAGIC TWEAK***** the dynamat takes the edge off all around and knocks any sibilance that is left to the curb-this is a must, a very subtle change but the more I listen the more I realize that this is the KEY........"The Ultrasones have officially been beaten after this tweak...how cool is this!!!"
6) "I shoulda saved the mesh, plastic screen, I have nothing to make a screen out of-I'll ask Bill if he can send me a hunk of the screen I see him with in the pics"-"cool-Bill is sending some screen, AWESOME GUY!!!!!!"
7) "Until the shells arrive, I'll fudge putting the cap back on and leave the back open, they sound excellent right now and I'd be absolutely fine with them being called complete at this point"
 
 At this point I stopped taking notes but its cool to see along the way how each tweak did alot or a little to the sound and which one was "The key".....cool stuff, and my thoughts here in posting this is to give new folks to the thread a kind of roadmap of sorts...
  

 

[Saintkeat]

Nice write up eclein!

And I'm sorry to hear you can't do modding anymore. If you need anything done I'd be happy to help you out DIY-wise.

 

[crayonhead]

what kind of dynamat do you guys use?

 

[Bilavideo]

The holes are an imitation of the holes used on loudspeakers.  Considering the extremely low wattage involved, the need for ventilation is a bit iffy.  I've covered those holes routinely and never noticed any difference.  I don't know of any cold hard proof, one way or another, but one fact of interest is the number of manufacturers who don't make those holes and seem to be doing just fine.  I think your theory about headphone manufacturers imitating loudspeaker designs makes about as much sense as any.  On the other hand, I would hesitate to tell somebody not to avail themselves of the holes and whatever ventilation they provide if they are running their headphones day and night.  Given the extremely high gauge of the voice-coil wire, which is threadlike to begin with, I can see a point in not pushing it.  This is just anecdotal, but I've read of posters here on HeadFi, right here in the SR60 Mod thread, who have run the headphones continuously overnight and who have come back reporting issues - like sudden death in the driver.  I don't know if there was any causal connection, and I have run countless headphones overnight without issues, but I can see where someone might want whatever ventilation he or she could get.  As it is, I cover my holes, in part because I don't run the drivers for weeks on end.
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I'd really love some cold hard proof that those vents for the voice coil through the driver magnet serve a purpose..
 
I know that on loudspeakers they vent heat, but isn't that totally irrelevant on a driver this small? I know that it is the nature of things to mock driver design after speakers..  I'd just really like to know once and for all if they serve a purpose beyond aesthetics.
 
Any proof for or against them serving a purpose would be great. I know everyone's got an opinon, but you know what they say about opinion's
 
Lots of people cover them up with dynamat and see no ill results.. Other people act as though covering up the holes would cause a massacre of sorts. Who is right?

 

 

[Bilavideo]

 

Soft substances like cork and sponge are to absorb sound right? So any metallic material would naturally reflect sound yes?

And I was under the impression that dynamat was used to absorb the vibration from the driver so the highs won't be so shrill. Never knew it was to add weight.. Oh wells learn something new everyday.

And my post was in reference to the one above his, in case you weren't following.

The very best way to reduce resonance is to go completely shell free.  I did this early on and found the presentation much more open.  But without a shell, bass response is quite limited.  The purpose of shells, then, is to get some of that back, without sacrificing too much openness.  The K1000 had the most open design but produced such limited bass (while also being bulky and expensive) that AKG replaced it with the K701, which has more bass but is still notoriously limited in that department.  It needs the right amp to come out and play.  The big Sennheisers also attempt to provide an almost shell-free environment, but they all have to employ pads between the ear and driver to attenuate HF.  This, to me, is an indication that the balance is off.  Ironically, Sennheiser has wrestled with feedback about "veiled highs," highs whose veil can be yanked out at any time.  But if you were to yank out the cloth, you'd end up with a headphone that suddenly sounds too bright.  The HD800 also uses a pad, albeit a thin one, and it attempts to balance the dual demands of bass and treble by using its "revolutionary" driver, which avoids cone breakup by employing a ring magnet and a doughnut-shaped diaphragm.  This "larger" driver (larger with a giant nothing in the middle) achieves better grumble but needs an amp to be properly powered.
 
Absent a shell-free or shell-lite design, there's much to be said about using fine tonewoods, in an open-backed cylinder and then using the even more open pads to calibrate the balance.  To paraphrase what Winston Churchill said about democracy, when we're talking about dynamic headphones, Grado may have the worst design - except for all of the others.  I like the extra thump these wooden shells give to the Grado presentation, and when it's smartly done, I don't mind the tradeoffs involved.  The material used for the shells does effect the tonal balance, amplifying different frequencies.  With certain tonewoods, you will get terrific bass but need to make adjustments to your pads.  With aluminum, the opposite seems to be the case.  The legendary PS1 came with flats.  Attempts to provide half the aluminum of the PS1 - in the SR325 - produce love/hate results.  The sparkle is amazing but without shoring up the bass some more, it can also be fatiguing.  The hybrid approach seems to hold the most hope in striking the right balance, though - as the RS1 proves - you can get a lot of mileage out of mahogany and bowls.

 

[lawrywild]

Soft substances like cork and sponge are to absorb sound right? So any metallic material would naturally reflect sound yes?

And I was under the impression that dynamat was used to absorb the vibration from the driver so the highs won't be so shrill. Never knew it was to add weight.. Oh wells learn something new everyday.

And my post was in reference to the one above his, in case you weren't following.

Sponge works by not letting sound waves back out once they've entered by letting them bounce around inside until they lose energy and 'die out'. Metal will reflect sound more than something like cork if it's flimsy and held in a medium like air where it's allowed to vibrate. If the metal is attached to the putty stuff, like dynamat is, the metal isn't allowed to vibrate much so the energy is just distributed into the putty instead of vibrating the air particles again in it's proximity and sending another sound wave back out. Thats why it will actually do a better job of damping the sound than without it, hence why it's there when used on automotive installs.

The idea of adding weight to the magnet plate is to stop it resonating at an audible frequency. By changing it's weight you change it's natural frequency of vibration.

 

[eclein]

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Nice write up eclein!

And I'm sorry to hear you can't do modding anymore. If you need anything done I'd be happy to help you out DIY-wise.

Your a good man thanks!!! I'll find a way to mod or just curse alot when I pull the shells apart....LOL.
 


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what kind of dynamat do you guys use?

I think it was the "Extreme" version
 

 

[Big Bill]

It appears there is some confusion here as to what purpose Dynamat serves and how it accomplishes that. According to Scott Whitaker (President of Dynamat), Dynamat is a butyl rubber that dampens by converting vibration/dynamic motion in to a low grade heat. You can see Scott Whitaker discussing how it works with Jay Leno here at this link:
 
http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/video/dynamat/182000/
 
 
Bill.

 

[wje]

To answer the question on how to remove Dynamat from the foil, or the foil from the Dynamat rubber/butyl material, the process is quite simple.  Remove the paper backing of the Dynamat.  Lay the Dynamat with the foil side down on your work area.  With a craft knife or scraper, you can just move it along the foil material and the rubber will essentially start to roll up for you.  I've found that I prefer to do this while working with small pieces - granted, small pieces are all we need when using this material for headphone mods.  You can then work several smaller pieces of the butyl rubber together just like playing with putty as a child.  You'll then have a larger piece or ball to work with.  From there,  you can either add more or take some away - as needed.

 

[Saintkeat]

Thanks for the education lawry! Breaking it down helped me understand a lot better! Sure wished I could take back my ignorance lol!

Bila that was a very interesting read as well. Wow a lot of good info in a couple of posts! Can't wait to hear what zebrawood sounds like.. Looking at the shells I'd say they resonate a fair bit which would mean the bass would be deep and full but I wonder if it creeps into the mids..

Eclein anything you need done send it my way I'll be happy to help! As long as it's within my rather low skill level. =D

 

[chrislangley4253]

Quote:

Quote:

what is supposed to be absorbed by the dynamat would instead be reflected off the foil as it's not absorbant like dynamat. Pure theory.

Sound =/= light

Dynamat's purpose there is only to add weight to the plate, not to absorb stray sound waves.

Also I think the guy above was talking about the holes in the magnet plate, not the driver venting ones.

Yup, and yup.
 

 

[Saintkeat]

Thanks BigBill! SO it does absorb vibration!