[Kojaku]

Quote:

I feel horribly responsible for derailing the thread. 

  

  I've had my chance at utilizing the SR-225 drivers as well as the Alessandro MS-1i drivers under the modifying knife.  While the thread may have started off as being SR-60 related by Bilavideo, we've all had chances of different opportunities at utilizing whatever Grado we had within reach ... be it, the SR-60, 80, 125, 225 or 325.  If you're in this thread and want to talk about anything higher in the Grado food chain that the SR-325, then, I think you're just plain nuts.  

  Meanwhile, SR-60(i) though the SR-325(i) series is open season here.
 
With that being said, I'm playing with another pair of Cabillas' cups in Sapele.  I'm thinking this is leaning towards asking for a Alessandro MS-1i liberation.  Additionally, since school starts next month, Dollar Tree is fully stocked with school supplies.  They have the black and silver letter trays in stock for a $1.00.  This is the mesh (in black) that I'm using with these cups.  A similar letter tray at Office Depot runs $11.00.  Ouch!  

  I use a small paper template that I drew out with my compass and hold it on the wire mesh as I take my tin snips and go around the circle.  These metal paper mesh trays make a more durable screen than the aluminum modeling screen that I've used in the past from the craft store.
 

 
 
 
 

AGH. THOSE CUPS! WAAAAAAH! ahem...So I found out with a quick google search that the "Origin Post is Preparing Shipment" tracking update often sticks until after the product has been delivered...sooooo....I'll be waiting like a loyal doggy for the mailman tomorrow I may even begin opening up and liberating tonight...
 
Kojaku
 

 

[166848]

 

[DigitalFreak]

I've noticed everyone's talked about mods to the SR 60i up to the 325i but nobodies mentioned anything about the iGrado. To my knowledge the drivers of the iGrado are exactly the same as the SR60i. Here's a thought considering the cups that hold the iGrado drivers seem to look radically different if I was to say crack open my iGrado would I get a completely liberated set of drivers ready for mounting into a set of wood cups? I wouldn't mind modding my SR60i's with wood cups but I'm sort of hesitant because I really like my SR60i. They're the first real good headphones I've owned and I'm kind of sentimental about them.

 

[Kojaku]

I've noticed everyone's talked about mods to the SR 60i up to the 325i but nobodies mentioned anything about the iGrado. To my knowledge the drivers of the iGrado are exactly the same as the SR60i. Here's a thought considering the cups that hold the iGrado drivers seem to look radically different if I was to say crack open my iGrado would I get a completely liberated set of drivers ready for mounting into a set of wood cups? I wouldn't mind modding my SR60i's with wood cups but I'm sort of hesitant because I really like my SR60i. They're the first real good headphones I've owned and I'm kind of sentimental about them.

Already voided a couple pages back. Check with Big Bill and wje (Wayne). They aren't exactly the same...sorry to burst your bubble.

Kojaku

 

[DigitalFreak]

Quote:

Already voided a couple pages back. Check with Big Bill and wje (Wayne). They aren't exactly the same...sorry to burst your bubble.

Kojaku

Crud, well so much for that idea. Thanks Kojaku
 

 

[Big Bill]

     Quote:

I've noticed everyone's talked about mods to the SR 60i up to the 325i but nobodies mentioned anything about the iGrado. To my knowledge the drivers of the iGrado are exactly the same as the SR60i.

That is correct.
 
 
Quote:

Already voided a couple pages back. Check with Big Bill and wje (Wayne). They aren't exactly the same...sorry to burst your bubble.

Kojaku

 
[size=10pt]The drivers are the same, it's the periphery of the plastic waveguide/grill that is slightly different with the iGrado’s as there is no traditional plastic "cup" as found with the 60 and up series. However, this is a moot point for anyone looking for a cheap source of fully liberated drivers. [/size]
 

 

[KneelJung]

Here is a pic, I posted this a few pages back but here it is again.
 

 
The iGrado is really easy to get into and provides you with a fully liberated driver, if that's what you want. I think a fully liberated driver presents other issues. For me it was a problem because the diameter of the iGrado driver without the plastic of a partially liberated driver from a SR60 or other drivers that can be wrested from that plastic driver housings wont fit snugly in the wood driver housings I had fabricated.
 
But that's not really the whole problem. A fully liberated driver like the one above seems like it would be difficult to work with. The mylar top seems very delicate. Also I believe the plastic with the holes in it actually serves a sonic function of some sort but this is where Big Bill needs to take over because I dont know what that function is or how removing it effects the sound, what things you need to do to compensate for it not being there, etc. 

 

[wje]

A few points / observations on some various areas:
 
1) In regards to the "liberated" driver of the iGrado variety, I wonder if a custom wave guide could be built using a number of materials?  I'm not sure if it's plastic or metal.  If metal, they sell metal sheets - aluminum in the hardware aisle at the home improvement stores.  Then, it would just be the fun task of making a template on the holes, the size of them and where to drill.  Plastic would be easier - but, would have to be of the right type.  Now, what about wood - specifically, balsa wood?  Thin sheets of that could be procured from a local craft store to develop a wave guide for the top of the liberated driver.  Polyurethane could be applied to the balsa to ensure it doesn't abosorb all of the frequencies and works on passing them through to the ear.  Does this seem feasible ... or, am I way out on the permiter on this one?
 
Also, another item, but in a different topic area / focus:
 
2) We've all seen thread regarding the great cable debates.  Admittedly, they are ugly to watch and read.  However, my observation / question comes from the larger 8 conductor cables utilized with the newer Grado SR-125i and up.  Sure, we have a nice gauge size of wires heading from the plug to the driver for a 6 foot distance - but, when it hits the driver and the leads that take you to the voice coil, the sound then travels on a very thin gauge (28 gauge?) wire to the voice coil.  Apparently, one can hop in the "fast lane" with their thicker cables for a distance of 6' between their player, amp or whatever to the headphones themselves, then the signal hits a brick wall with the small wires on the mylar driver leading to the voice coil.  Any thoughts on this observation?
 
Sorry for these types of questions that makes one think so early on a Monday morning.  So, grab some caffeine and read through the questions and give it some thought. 

 

[Nightslayer]

Quote:

A few points / observations on some various areas:
 
1) In regards to the "liberated" driver of the iGrado variety, I wonder if a custom wave guide could be built using a number of materials?  I'm not sure if it's plastic or metal.  If metal, they sell metal sheets - aluminum in the hardware aisle at the home improvement stores.  Then, it would just be the fun task of making a template on the holes, the size of them and where to drill.  Plastic would be easier - but, would have to be of the right type.  Now, what about wood - specifically, balsa wood?  Thin sheets of that could be procured from a local craft store to develop a wave guide for the top of the liberated driver.  Polyurethane could be applied to the balsa to ensure it doesn't abosorb all of the frequencies and works on passing them through to the ear.  Does this seem feasible ... or, am I way out on the permiter on this one?

If we're trying to save cash on using the iGrado drivers instead of SR60s, I think the additional costs incurred by such a step would negate any cost savings on using the iGrado drivers instead of acquiring them from the SR60s.
 
 

 

[xaval]

Quote:

A few points / observations on some various areas:
 
Also, another item, but in a different topic area / focus:
 
2) We've all seen thread regarding the great cable debates.  Admittedly, they are ugly to watch and read.  However, my observation / question comes from the larger 8 conductor cables utilized with the newer Grado SR-125i and up.  Sure, we have a nice gauge size of wires heading from the plug to the driver for a 6 foot distance - but, when it hits the driver and the leads that take you to the voice coil, the sound then travels on a very thin gauge (28 gauge?) wire to the voice coil.  Apparently, one can hop in the "fast lane" with their thicker cables for a distance of 6' between their player, amp or whatever to the headphones themselves, then the signal hits a brick wall with the small wires on the mylar driver leading to the voice coil.  Any thoughts on this observation?
 
Sorry for these types of questions that makes one think so early on a Monday morning.  So, grab some caffeine and read through the questions and give it some thought. 

Cables do have a sound. Sometimes they don't improve the sound, just change the way things are presented, but if the sound changes with the cable, it has to do with the cable. Many people say cables are irrelevant, but my ears told me otherwise many years ago and they still do.
 
As for the thinning effect, I have no idea about what would happen if you could, somehow, stick the big hoe tip onto the mylar. It would be an awesome acomplishment though

 
 
 

 

[Kojaku]

What I'm wondering is if anyone knows how we could access equipment to actualy measure frequency response, harmonic distortion, etc. after our mods have been applied...that way we're not always guessing...


Kojaku

 

[wje]

Quote:

If we're trying to save cash on using the iGrado drivers instead of SR60s, I think the additional costs incurred by such a step would negate any cost savings on using the iGrado drivers instead of acquiring them from the SR60s.
 
 

 
Quote:

Cables do have a sound. Sometimes they don't improve the sound, just change the way things are presented, but if the sound changes with the cable, it has to do with the cable. Many people say cables are irrelevant, but my ears told me otherwise many years ago and they still do.
 
 
As for the thinning effect, I have no idea about what would happen if you could, somehow, stick the big hoe tip onto the mylar. It would be an awesome acomplishment though

 
 
 

 
Your response has also confirmed what my ears have heard - in my case, the silver cables have changed the sound (in a detailed way).  I was focusing on using the thicker cable - or, in the case of Grado's use of the thicker cable on the SR-125i and up, I don't believe the thicker cable has much merit for sound, but do think it was added more for marketing purposes.  To the buyer, it helps rationalize or justify the cost of hopping the the SR-125i over the SR-80i, in some cases.
 
Oh ... connecting the cable to the tip on the mylar - or, the point where it enters into the voice coil - Yes, that would be interesting to try out for a validation process.  Good quality woofer drivers use a nice form of braided copper wire to make the connection from the terminal plate to the voice coil wire.  I'd volunteer to take on this task with the Grado drivers - but, I'd need someone to supply me with a dozen or so drivers to "play" with as I suspect I'd botch a few of them up pretty bad in working on this concept. 

 
 

 

[KneelJung]

Quote:

What I'm wondering is if anyone knows how we could access equipment to actualy measure frequency response, harmonic distortion, etc. after our mods have been applied...that way we're not always guessing...


Kojaku

Tyll Hersten volunteered to do this a while back in the original thread for Bila before Bila went off the reservation. I'm sure something could still be worked out but some folks would have to be willing to pony up their gear and pay for shipping to and fro I would imagine. Then we would all sort of have to agree on what we wanted him to measure. I also have this sneaky feeling that wje might have something up his sleeve since he's supposed to be meeting with someone that may have the type of gizmo's to do that of which you wondeer?
 
 
 

 

[chrislangley4253]

Quote:

not worth it, at least for me. sennheiser HD414 pads did better in comfort for me, quartermoded and they're almost the same as the bowls. I use those with my MS1 most of the time.
 
 

I... disagree completely. The hd414 pads don't give me nearly as good as a sound as bowls, but they are probably the most comfortable pads you can get. 
 
Quote:

OK I just cut away the cheese cloth from my SR60i's and I've cut some nice circles in the center of the comfies. I've got three quick questions. First question if I was to go for the open comfies like on the SR325i's would they fit on my SR60i cups? Second question is if I was to punch out the holes in my drivers for more bass whats a good safe number to decide on? Right now I'm leaning towards 4 holes per side, the last thing I want is to turn my SR60i's into Grado style fart cannons. If I want to slam my head around with bass I've got my Sony XB700/500 for that.

Third question is whats a good safe mod to increase sound stage? Would the open SR325i comfies increase sound stage?
 
Thanks to the posters of this thread. So far the two mods I've done to my SR60i's has yielded some added detail and generally cleaned up the sound a bit.

 
I would highly recommend starting with one hole and moving slowly from there. Don't even punch one hole if you are happy with the bass as it is.
 
 


Quote:

Thanks, and the cable job was SUPER easy. Maybe I'll put together a short "how to" for it... seriously it took 1 hour.
 


 

I'd like to see that, a lot.
 


Quote:

Thanks for providing this information.  I guess the question now is, does Grado use an actual Dynamat-like material on the backs of their higher-end headphones?  I know many people have shined a flashlight through the screen to look at the materials, but has anyone removed the drivers and looked at the material Grado uses - or, how they apply it?  The amount they use?
 
I remember reading some responses a few nights back and one member indicated that he/she used a pea-sized amount of Dynamat on the back of the drivers.  I don't recall what the impressions were on how the sound turned out, but I was going to comment that my drivers had about 3-peas worth of material formed in an hour-glass shape on the back of each driver, so the vent holes were exposed.  Now, this has me thinking about my MS-1i headphones.  For some reason, they don't see as articulate as I'd like.  I wonder if the Dynamat is getting in the way of the sound?  Or, maybe Dynamat is only good for the higher-end drivers (RS-1i and up) ... just like punching holes in the backs of the higher-end drivers ends up hurting the sound in major ways unlike the drivers from the lower SR series.   So many decisions to review ....
 

 


Quote:

I've disassembled my RS2i and the material looks and feels exactly like the puttied up Dynamat that I applied. I even tried my best to match the amount used on the RS2i
 
I plan on leaving my drivers dead stock... sounds best to my ears
 


 

WELP, time to unbury my boxed headphones (moving to another house) and take the dynamat off my sr80 drivers. I'm kind of embarrased I haven't tried it until now. I'll comment with some complete reviews of my sr80i's and stefan's ms pros.


Quote:

OK here is my take. A portable amp just seems like a giant pain in the ass. I think it makes more sense to have phones that are easily driven for portable use than adding an amp to the equation that's just my opinion. That said I absolutely see the logic in using something like a uDAC, the Icon mobile, an E7, or a bithead with a laptop or an ipad. The tradeoff IMO is this though, I dont think something that is battery powered or USB powered is ever going to match the performance of something that has it's own power via a wall socket. My Sparrow provides a lot of bang for your buck, great DAC / amp combo. Something like the Audinst is probably a sold choice too. I dont know if Hifiman still makes the EF2a but that might be something you would want to consider. I mention that only because unlike the little dot it has a DAC too. I havent even looked lately I'm so happy with my Sparrow but personally I think desktop is the way to go.

I agree with kneel here. However, I'd like to say that if you are going to pick up an Audio-GD product, I'd look into the NFB-12. That is what I'd buy if i was going to pick up a desktop amp right now.
 
Quote:

But they will outperform a basic output from my lappy and a basic output from my iphone/ipad right?
 
Kojaku

Definitely


Quote:

If we're trying to save cash on using the iGrado drivers instead of SR60s, I think the additional costs incurred by such a step would negate any cost savings on using the iGrado drivers.

Agreed. 
Quote:

 

 
Your response has also confirmed what my ears have heard - in my case, the silver cables have changed the sound (in a detailed way).  I was focusing on using the thicker cable - or, in the case of Grado's use of the thicker cable on the SR-125i and up, I don't believe the thicker cable has much merit for sound, but do think it was added more for marketing purposes.  To the buyer, it helps rationalize or justify the cost of hopping the the SR-125i over the SR-80i, in some cases.
 
Oh ... connecting the cable to the tip on the mylar - or, the point where it enters into the voice coil - Yes, that would be interesting to try out for a validation process.  Good quality woofer drivers use a nice form of braided copper wire to make the connection from the terminal plate to the voice coil wire.  I'd volunteer to take on this task with the Grado drivers - but, I'd need someone to supply me with a dozen or so drivers to "play" with as I suspect I'd botch a few of them up pretty bad in working on this concept. 

 
 

Personally, with my rig.. I don't feel like I see too much of a difference with a silver cable on my grados. I think I'm going to try to get my hands on some 225i's.. (I just need the drivers really, but I'll probably end up buying a whole pair) I'm going to put the 225i drivers into the bloodwood cups that marty made for me and I'd probably keep the 225i cable in all honesty. Then I'll be done with my grados, the only other headphone I want is a pair of Yuin PK3's for when I want some real portable open buds/when I'm mountain biking.Absolutely nothing against Stefan's cable, I just don't think I have good enough ears to hear a difference/not a good enough source and I don't plan on upgrading my source for a loooong time. 
 
 
If anyone has some 225i's they can give me a deal on, let me know. Like I said i only *really* need the drivers.

 

[Questhate]

Quote:

Let me say, when it comes to portability, charging, ease of use - the FiiO E11 is one heck of an amp for $60 (if you can find them in stock).  My FiiO E11, LOD cable, paired with my Walkman player does better with my Grados than either of my home systems, which are fed by a Squeezebox (using FLAC format).  For the money, it's a "no brainer".
 
Now, for one who likes tweaking and playing with multiple amps to see how they sound - and, possibly introducing a DAC, then there are many other choices out there.  Also, if one desires portability, the E11 travels quite a bit better than a tube-based desktop amplifier.  Now, I'll just put on my flame suit ...  

 

I'd like to +1 an endorsement of the E11. Not just for Grados, but in general. I use mine at work everyday, and use them with Grados, my Ultrasones, and even my K701. This thing is seriously powerful, well constructed, and sexy-looking. Obviously, a desktop amp (in my case, the E9) sounds better -- fuller, more dynamic and articulate -- but the E11 is fantastic for the price and size.
 
 
Quote:

OK here is my take. A portable amp just seems like a giant pain in the ass. I think it makes more sense to have phones that are easily driven for portable use than adding an amp to the equation that's just my opinion. That said I absolutely see the logic in using something like a uDAC, the Icon mobile, an E7, or a bithead with a laptop or an ipad. The tradeoff IMO is this though, I dont think something that is battery powered or USB powered is ever going to match the performance of something that has it's own power via a wall socket. My Sparrow provides a lot of bang for your buck, great DAC / amp combo. Something like the Audinst is probably a sold choice too. I dont know if Hifiman still makes the EF2a but that might be something you would want to consider. I mention that only because unlike the little dot it has a DAC too. I havent even looked lately I'm so happy with my Sparrow but personally I think desktop is the way to go.

 
I'd be inclined to agree here with regards to Grados. Going from an E11 to my iPod's headphone jack, there is an audible difference, but it truly isn't very dramatic. An E7 drives the Grado just fine, and it doubles as a DAC for your laptop (and possibly triple as a compliment to an E9 which will drive **** near everything for pretty cheap). And if Kojaku is looking for a warm-ish portable amp, a lot of people seem to love JDLabs' CMOY BB. 
 
Quote:

If we're trying to save cash on using the iGrado drivers instead of SR60s, I think the additional costs incurred by such a step would negate any cost savings on using the iGrado drivers instead of acquiring them from the SR60s.
 
 

 
Yes. And also consider that an iGrado does not come with a headband and gimbals to mount your cups onto.