Sound Science Music Thread: Pass it on!

Jul 20, 2019 at 6:46 PM Post #541 of 609
(and then to ABBA!) :astonished:

Easy. :wink:



Wikipedia:

The Mexican–American War,[a] also known in the United States as the Mexican War and in Mexico as the Intervención estadounidense en México (United States intervention in Mexico),https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican–American_War#cite_note-6 was an armed conflict between the United States and Mexico from 1846 to 1848. It followed in the wake of the 1845 U.S. annexation of Texas, not formally recognized by the Mexican government, disputing the Treaties of Velasco signed by Mexican caudillo President/General Antonio López de Santa Anna after the Texas Revolution a decade earlier. In 1845, newly elected U.S. President James K. Polk, who saw the annexation of Texas as the first step towards a further expansion of the United States,[5] sent troops to the disputed area and a diplomatic mission to Mexico. After Mexican forces attacked U.S. forces, Polk cited this in his request that Congress declare war.

U.S. forces quickly occupied the regional capital of Santa Fe de Nuevo México along the upper Rio Grande and the Pacific coast province of Alta California, and then moved south. Meanwhile, the Pacific Squadron of the U.S. Navy blockaded the Pacific coast farther south in lower Baja California Territory. The U.S. Army under Major General Winfield Scott eventually captured Mexico City through stiff resistance, having marched west from the port of Veracruz on the Gulf Coast, where the U.S. staged its first ever major amphibious landing.

The 1848 Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, forced onto the remnant Mexican government, ended the war and enforced the Mexican Cession of the northern territories of Alta California and Santa Fe de Nuevo México to the United States. The U.S. agreed to pay $15 million compensation for the physical damage of the war and assumed $3.25 million of debt already owed earlier by the Mexican government to U.S. citizens. Mexico acknowledged the loss of what became the State of Texas and accepted the Rio Grande as its northern border with the United States.

The victory and territorial expansion Polk envisioned[6] inspired great patriotism in the United States, but the war and treaty drew some criticism in the U.S. for their casualties, monetary cost, and heavy-handedness,[7][8] particularly early on. The question of how to treat the new acquisitions also intensified the debate over slavery. Mexico's worsened domestic turmoil and losses of life, territory and national prestige left it in what prominent Mexicans called a "state of degradation and ruin".[9]
 
Last edited:
Jul 20, 2019 at 7:51 PM Post #542 of 609
As part of a side thread to this topic, I wanted to discuss drums and percussion. Some of my favorite artists and their music often has a common theme that is heavily related to percussion and rhythm. I'm not one to focus on lyrics much, and I've enjoyed many songs for decades without truly understanding the artist's meaning and sometimes without knowing what is actually being sung or what the song is supposed to be about.

One particular tune that I will always try and listen to when evaluating equipment is "I Talk to the Wind" by King Crimson. The drums in this particular song are critical to the melody. Any deviation with the percussion from the recorded version does not usually work out too well for my ears.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2skkxm

Drums, as an important part of the melody, can really drive the music. While Ringo Starr was not mentioned often for his technical ability, what I noticed about his work is that I could identify the song from just a few bars of his beats. He had a unique style and carried a melody that was special for every song. This may be a reach for some, but even a band such as Opeth rely on similar drumming styles to help carry their music. Change the percussion style and the song is different, and probably for the worse. Find the right drummer, and the music is right and the song clicks. A lot of artists can bang on the drums hard and fast and would be great in a solo, but some of the greatest drummers were unsung heroes used as session artists that worked in a studio, putting in the time similarly to how most of us work our own daily jobs.

There are many great drummers and some fantastic songs that feature percussion elements, but I have discovered that classically trained jazz drummers are nearly always spectacular at their trade. Maybe it is the spontaneity of jazz improvisation or the plethora of odd time signatures introduced in some of the pieces, but a great jazz drummer nearly always seems capable of adjusting to any type of music. I simply love drums. As an introverted personality, sitting behind the scenes and being out of the limelight appeals to my nature. There are a lot of great songs that most likely would have remained unnoticed except for some unique percussion that helped make it exceptional. Though, as is often the case, the drums were not the only reason behind the success of any good song, despite being a critical component.

Bang on.
 
Jul 20, 2019 at 9:27 PM Post #543 of 609
As part of a side thread to this topic, I wanted to discuss drums and percussion. Some of my favorite artists and their music often has a common theme that is heavily related to percussion and rhythm. I'm not one to focus on lyrics much, and I've enjoyed many songs for decades without truly understanding the artist's meaning and sometimes without knowing what is actually being sung or what the song is supposed to be about.

One particular tune that I will always try and listen to when evaluating equipment is "I Talk to the Wind" by King Crimson. The drums in this particular song are critical to the melody. Any deviation with the percussion from the recorded version does not usually work out too well for my ears.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2skkxm

Drums, as an important part of the melody, can really drive the music. While Ringo Starr was not mentioned often for his technical ability, what I noticed about his work is that I could identify the song from just a few bars of his beats. He had a unique style and carried a melody that was special for every song. This may be a reach for some, but even a band such as Opeth rely on similar drumming styles to help carry their music. Change the percussion style and the song is different, and probably for the worse. Find the right drummer, and the music is right and the song clicks. A lot of artists can bang on the drums hard and fast and would be great in a solo, but some of the greatest drummers were unsung heroes used as session artists that worked in a studio, putting in the time similarly to how most of us work our own daily jobs.

There are many great drummers and some fantastic songs that feature percussion elements, but I have discovered that classically trained jazz drummers are nearly always spectacular at their trade. Maybe it is the spontaneity of jazz improvisation or the plethora of odd time signatures introduced in some of the pieces, but a great jazz drummer nearly always seems capable of adjusting to any type of music. I simply love drums. As an introverted personality, sitting behind the scenes and being out of the limelight appeals to my nature. There are a lot of great songs that most likely would have remained unnoticed except for some unique percussion that helped make it exceptional. Though, as is often the case, the drums were not the only reason behind the success of any good song, despite being a critical component.

Bang on.

I don’t know anything about King Crimson (until now). I agree the drumming on that song is very tasteful and only adds to the song. The drummer was using a very soft touch. I also agree with you about Ringo Starr. He was not a technically heroic drummer but his drumming always seemed to add to the music and not get in the way. To me you could even say he had his own voice on the drums.

So if you like drums and are interested in a jazz drummer who had his own voice and a soft voice there is Jo Jones. He was the drummer for Count Basie for many years and was reportedly one of the very first drummers to use brushes. His discography is frustrating because some of his later albums with him in small ensembles with really nice sound have gone out of print. I had to order a CD of one under the Denon label from Japan on Amazon.

Edit: It seems the best sounding stuff (in terms of sound quality) of Jo Jones on the streaming services is “The Definitive Black and Blue Sessions.” I don’t know why it is called that, like if people got beat up or something, but there it is. It’s a French jazz label. Maybe @castleofargh can tell us if French jazz labels beat up on their musicians. Or maybe that’s too intellectual. The tracks seem to run from about 1965-1975, I am enjoying them greatly right now.

For even better sound quality there is a digitally recorded Denon CD you could buy really cheap used on Amazon with great sound. It’s called Our Man Papa Joe. And it looks like there is a Pablo CD that then moved to another label that i just ordered used on Amazon for about $8 tonight. You can order it used on Amazon on either of the two labels. It’s called Main Man. It’s a real loss not to hear this guy’s drumming in the highest possible sound quality, so now I’ll have the two highest quality recordings (which are not on the streaming services).

Now this is Jo Jones. There was also the drummer Philly Joe Jones and he is definitely not Jo Jones. Jo Jones reportedly threw a cymbal at a young alto sax player named Charlie Parker’s feet when Mr. Parker lost his place in the music. Young Mr. Parker is said to have gone back home and practiced a little and to have become pretty good. Like arguably the best alto sax player in the world.

But just to show you Jo Jones’ street creds here he is on three tunes with Count Basie’s big band in 1941. Count Basie’s rhythm section was very tight and was very disciplined and did not overplay. For example if you listen closely you’ll hear Freddie Green on guitar. All he ever did was softly play the perfect chord right on the beat, every beat. And from the whole video perhaps you’ll be impressed that you are watching and hearing music of a very high order. Jo Jones was great and it seems everyone knew it including him so although his playing was modest (as in relatively restrained in terms of volume) it looks like his drum set with the Basie Band was not modest.

 
Last edited:
Jul 21, 2019 at 2:13 AM Post #544 of 609
Jo Jones is the king.
 
Jul 28, 2019 at 2:58 PM Post #547 of 609
That is a song that sounds like it is hundreds of years old. But it was written in 1959. Lefty Frizzell has the original version.
 
Aug 10, 2019 at 12:01 AM Post #549 of 609
For @Gazny (not as good sound as a for-pay streaming music service, but it is an extremely cool cut):

I have to wonder if Herbie Hancock is just totally sick of that riff though. If I understand correctly the guy is literally a genius or very close to it. And every time he plays that riff in concert everyone starts jumping around like they've just had an epiphany.

He has an electrical engineering degree!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbie_Hancock

 
Last edited:
Aug 10, 2019 at 12:06 AM Post #550 of 609
As part of a side thread to this topic, I wanted to discuss drums and percussion. Some of my favorite artists and their music often has a common theme that is heavily related to percussion and rhythm. I'm not one to focus on lyrics much, and I've enjoyed many songs for decades without truly understanding the artist's meaning and sometimes without knowing what is actually being sung or what the song is supposed to be about.

One particular tune that I will always try and listen to when evaluating equipment is "I Talk to the Wind" by King Crimson. The drums in this particular song are critical to the melody. Any deviation with the percussion from the recorded version does not usually work out too well for my ears.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2skkxm

Drums, as an important part of the melody, can really drive the music. While Ringo Starr was not mentioned often for his technical ability, what I noticed about his work is that I could identify the song from just a few bars of his beats. He had a unique style and carried a melody that was special for every song. This may be a reach for some, but even a band such as Opeth rely on similar drumming styles to help carry their music. Change the percussion style and the song is different, and probably for the worse. Find the right drummer, and the music is right and the song clicks. A lot of artists can bang on the drums hard and fast and would be great in a solo, but some of the greatest drummers were unsung heroes used as session artists that worked in a studio, putting in the time similarly to how most of us work our own daily jobs.

There are many great drummers and some fantastic songs that feature percussion elements, but I have discovered that classically trained jazz drummers are nearly always spectacular at their trade. Maybe it is the spontaneity of jazz improvisation or the plethora of odd time signatures introduced in some of the pieces, but a great jazz drummer nearly always seems capable of adjusting to any type of music. I simply love drums. As an introverted personality, sitting behind the scenes and being out of the limelight appeals to my nature. There are a lot of great songs that most likely would have remained unnoticed except for some unique percussion that helped make it exceptional. Though, as is often the case, the drums were not the only reason behind the success of any good song, despite being a critical component.

Bang on.
Ditto, I have been playing drums off and on for more than 30 years now. I also think that Ringo Starr was unfairly dismissed and he has a special touch. My man when it comes to an unfathomable talent is Danny Carey from Tool (and Pigmy Love Slave). The relationship he establishes with the spaces between those normal beats that delineate time-signatures is almost supernatural. Manu Katche is also another personal fav. Oh, yah, how about this dude
 
Last edited:
Aug 10, 2019 at 12:09 AM Post #551 of 609
For @Gazny (not as good sound as a for-pay streaming music service, but it is an extremely cool cut):

I have to wonder if Herbie Hancock is just totally sick of that riff though. If I understand correctly the guy is literally a genius or very close to it. And every time he plays that riff in concert everyone starts jumping around like they've just had an epiphany.

He has an electrical engineering degree!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbie_Hancock


Saw Herbie Hancock at Jazz Fest here in Ottawa in 2014 I think it was. Just wow. Vinnie Colaiuta was on drums, so yah, it was stunning.
 
Aug 10, 2019 at 7:18 AM Post #552 of 609
For @Gazny (not as good sound as a for-pay streaming music service, but it is an extremely cool cut):

I have to wonder if Herbie Hancock is just totally sick of that riff though. If I understand correctly the guy is literally a genius or very close to it. And every time he plays that riff in concert everyone starts jumping around like they've just had an epiphany.

He has an electrical engineering degree!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbie_Hancock



Herbie is talented; gotta love the variety of his music!

Really like his slow, almost haunting version of "On Green Dolphin Street"





 
Last edited:
Aug 18, 2019 at 5:25 AM Post #554 of 609
I rediscovered Johnny Pates Album Outrageous recently and I can't stop playing it. It's a bit 'Austin Powers' in places but it's a good listen :-



I've also discovered Gene Clark (of 'The Byrds') solo work. He treads a nice path in between Neil Young and Bob Dylan for me. I'm surprised his solo work isn't more well known :-



 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top