[DoctaCosmos]

Mod the input resistors to a higher impedence?

 

[XERO1]

 
For headphones that only require one cup plugged (meaning there is an interconnect between the two drivers), why bother upgrading the cable if you're not going to upgrade the crappy stock wire inside the headband? 

 
'Zactly!

 
I spoke to an Audioquest rep about a similar issue and his argument was that even if there was 5% of the low quality cable in the signal path, if 95% of the signal path is upgraded to a higher quality conductor, you are still going to hear less distortion than if the conductor was 100% low quality.
 
While this may make sense for headphones with cable inputs for each ear cup, the same can't be said for single-sided headphones.

 

[CEE TEE]

^Hi Bill, I think I saw that you have one of these Z7 coming?  I want to install the Speedball upgrade now that I have had all my tube amps out and easily available. I'll let you borrow it again whenever I actually get that done.  I'm currently stuck needing to get some misplaced capacitors out of a tube clock project.  

 

 

[Bill-P]

Mod the input resistors to a higher impedence?

Well, the input capacitors.
 
The resistors probably contribute somewhat, but the capacitors make a bigger difference.
 
And this is already measured to be audible. 

 

[Bill-P]

  ^Hi Bill, I think I saw that you have one of these Z7 coming?  I want to install the Speedball upgrade now that I have had all my tube amps out and easily available. I'll let you borrow it again whenever I actually get that done.  I'm currently stuck needing to get some misplaced capacitors out of a tube clock project.  

 

 
Hey! It's been a long time since we last talked! I'm glad I could pull you to this thread. 

 
Yeah, I definitely have a Z7 coming. And my current driver is a HE-560 that... actually sounds more like a HD600.
 
Let's get together one of these days. I'd definitely love to see you soon!
 
In fact, there's going to be a SF Bay Area mini meet in San Jose this coming weekend (November 1st). Details in the meet thread here:
San Jose, CA - Super Mini Meet?
 
Would love to see you there!

 

[up late]

anymore z7 impressions anyone?

 

[Bill-P]

Please, folks, can we get back to the regular program and stop the cable discussion? I'd think such things should belong in the sound science section.
 
Plus it doesn't look like you guys will have any success convincing one another of your beliefs.
 
Let's just leave it at that.
 
----
 
Anyway, here's back to the Z7.
 
Another review. This time in Chinese, done by VR-Zone:
http://chinese.vr-zone.com/131954/sony-hi-res-flagship-over-ear-headphone-mdr-z7-with-pha-3-portable-headamp-hands-on-review-10282014/
 
Google Translate is your best friend here.
 
Highlight:
- Fast decay bass
- Very good sense of space
- Precise imaging
- High-end is smooth and airy but not dry or piercing
- PHA-3 pairing makes the mid sound thin and a bit disjointed compared to the smooth high and low
- PHA-3 has a DSEE HX switch that's more like an EQ, it lifts the treble range up slightly, gives more bite to the sound and makes it all more "crispy" than at stock where the treble is a bit diffused, but also runs the risk of making the sound too V-shaped since the mid is recessed
 
I'm starting to think it's the mids of the Z7 that's disconnected from the other 2 frequencies. It's a bit too thin, maybe due to the dip in frequency response, and as a result, it's sounding disjointed from the fuller bass and treble. Some mods to fill this out may just be the fix. Or alternatively, I think a portable tube amp... like... for instance, the ALO Continental, would be wonderful with the Z7.

 

[DoctaCosmos]

Is 70ohm to low to benefit from a tube like the old 70 ohm lcd3 according to tyll?

 

[zhenya]

I received mine today and can post a few initial impressions.
 
First, the build quality, fit, and industrial design is first rate - perhaps better than any other headphone I've ever owned or tried. It's as comfortable as my D7000's (which I think are my most comfortable headphones) but overall feel much more solid. The threaded plugs into the earcups are the nicest design I've seen. My only minor quibble is that I wish the cable were fabric covered. Every other set of high-end headphones I own has this and I notice its lack every time I pick these up.
 
So far I've just listened for a couple of hours back and forth with my CD3000's from my Pico. My first impression is plenty of bass but where oh where is the treble? Compared to the CD3000 it's utterly absent and especially upon quick switching back and forth the Z7 sounds really boomy and dark in comparison. These really do appear to be tuned towards the current mainstream taste of plenty of low end and overly smooth highs. Listening to the cymbals on Morphine's Cure for Pain and they are recessed such that it sounds as if I'm listening in an over-damped theater from near the back of the house. The Z7 does an admirable job at soundstage and positioning - it really doesn't give much of anything up to the CD3000 in that regard - but their overall dark character means that I am not hearing a lot of the ambiance that is the trademark of truly high end headphones. It also comes across as a lack of detail and texture in the music - whether the decay of a cymbal strike, the sharp attack of a drum stick making contact, the specific grainy texture of fingers on steel that makes it feel like you are standing right next to the guitarist, or the particular grit that closely miced vocals have, present and audible only in the most transparent systems. The Head and the Heart's eponymous album is a gem, catchy enough to have you singing along on the most modest of gear, yet well recorded and layered with harmonies and detail that really expands the enjoyment as the quality of your gear goes up. On the CD3000's this is fully audible and immensely enjoyable. The Z7's retain the rhythm but compress those many layers until they become a single monolithic sound with little depth.
 
The good news is that taken alone, without the constant switching of comparison, these settle in to an easy, mellow listen that generally pleases the ear and is never harsh. My experience is not as wide as many folks here, but I have found that finding a headphone that is well made, comfortable to wear, closed back with minimal leakage, while retaining a good soundstage and some semblance of detail is a tough nut. For that alone I think these will find a lot of fans. For me, I'll have to spend some more time with them, hook them up to my higher-end gear at home and compare them to the D7000's before I make any definitive decisions. Yet at this point I'll be hoping I can stretch the life of my CD3000's as long as possible. 

 

[ButtUglyJeff]

   
I'm starting to think it's the mids of the Z7 that's disconnected from the other 2 frequencies. It's a bit too thin, maybe due to the dip in frequency response, and as a result, it's sounding disjointed from the fuller bass and treble. Some mods to fill this out may just be the fix. Or alternatively, I think a portable tube amp... like... for instance, the ALO Continental, would be wonderful with the Z7.

 
 
I'm taking my Z7s to the NYC head-fi meet on 11/15.  And one of my "short list" things I want to do is listen to them with Woo's new prototype portable tube AMP/DAC; the WA8...
 
...with that said, I don't feel the mids are as recessed as others are reporting.  I'm far from a "golden ears", but my perception of the mids is more relaxed.

 

[plakat]

Is 70ohm to low to benefit from a tube like the old 70 ohm lcd3 according to tyll?

I don't think the Z7 would mate well with an OTL tube amp, but a regular one with output transformers should be ok technically. If it has typical tube sound it might not be the best combination still, judging from the many impressions that talk about the Z7 having a rather laid back sound by itself. For me that alone makes it not too interesting (I'll nevertheless check it again under better listening conditions than at the noisy IFA show floor), but adding a laid back tube amp to the mix would kill me with boredom I guess
 
Sony does provoke discussions around using various cables with the Z7, providing a rather expensive optional cable themselves. Still I'd prefer to hear impressions about the headphone itself. Asides from nice optics I could not care less about the cables once they reach the level of technical ability needed for driving a headphone... And yes, I do prefer Neutrik connectors to cheap plastic ones but would not exchange them myself -- too much of a hassle.

 

[Bill-P]

 
I'm taking my Z7s to the NYC head-fi meet on 11/15.  And one of my "short list" things I want to do is listen to them with Woo's new prototype portable tube AMP/DAC; the WA8...
 
...with that said, I don't feel the mids are as recessed as others are reporting.  I'm far from a "golden ears", but my perception of the mids is more relaxed.

 
Well, I must admit to being guilty of liking Audio Technica headphones' boosted midrange that is just a bit... too aggressive compared to other headphones, so I'm going to be more critical of that range than any other.
 
I'm still imagining the Z7 doing pretty well with a tube amp like the ALO Continental V3, which is portable, and has a slightly exciting and bright sound along with a midrange boost and a spacious soundstage.

 

[mikaelberg]

Do you think the Walkman ZX1 will be able to drive these by itself? Thinking of getting a PHA-3 later on, but one can only afford so much at a time

 

[ButtUglyJeff]

  Do you think the Walkman ZX1 will be able to drive these by itself? Thinking of getting a PHA-3 later on, but one can only afford so much at a time

 
It'll drive it, but you might be disappointed without some additional amplification.

 

[marcswede]

Nothing hostile about my reaction, just pointing out that your post has literally no truth whatsoever in it.

I'm sorry if I came off a bit harsh to you. I would really appreciate questioning or correction of what I said. If I'm being wrong, then I need to know.

The gist of what I wrote is that I don't believe in the idea of choking points in conductors that aren't subjected to any noticeable amounts of thermal resistance. Rather, we will have three basic things to fight; resistance, inductance and capacitance. These will be proportional to the length of a given cable.

At the same time, it seems that some cable-makers rather than just reducing these characteristics can use them to tune the cable for a specific kind of headphone: increase inductance to tame highs; increase resistance to even out impedance differences, etc.

I'm not arguing in favour of cable upgrades in any general way. I think there's a lot that can be done to tailor the sound before cable upgrades need come in to consideration. But if people want to experiment or buy after-market cables for their gear, I think it's OK. A lot of people would say we audiophiles are a crazy bunch anyway, even without the fancy cables :wink_face: