Sony's new flagship 2014 - MDR-Z7
Jan 6, 2015 at 6:53 PM Post #3,826 of 9,173
 
I think I will resort to modding to fix the rest of my qualms...
 
Mainly:
1) The upper mid is a bit too forward/harsh, so it sticks out like a sore thumb because the whole presentation is very relaxing/smooth.
2) There is a peak in the lower treble that makes this headphone sound... a bit peaky. If this peak was a bit higher up (à la R10), it would be nicer.
3) The bass could definitely be tighter, though amping already helped with power, authority, impact, and control.
 
I guess I'm just asking for a lot... but I'm also hearing a lot of potential with this headphone.

I addressed most of those problems by upgrading to silver cable and running them balanced.  Yes, the bass is far from my reference cans but the overall sound quality is quite good now especially out of the PHA3 or GS-X MKII.  Don't you have a silver cable laying around to do a cable mod first?  
 
Jan 6, 2015 at 7:51 PM Post #3,827 of 9,173
  I addressed most of those problems by upgrading to silver cable and running them balanced.  Yes, the bass is far from my reference cans but the overall sound quality is quite good now especially out of the PHA3 or GS-X MKII.  Don't you have a silver cable laying around to do a cable mod first?  


No, I wish I had a spare cable around... since the stock cable is way too long for my preferred portable use. But I can definitely see myself using the Z7 as a portable headphone one of these days. Size and bulkiness be damned... and I'm not exactly a small fella anyway.
 
Simple front-damping mods have proven that the midrange and treble can be tuned closer to my preference, so I'm happy now. I'll probably open the back up and apply some dynamats to tighten the bass, and then I think that should do the trick. These are surprisingly easy to mod... though I suspect that's due to the amount of room available.
 
Jan 6, 2015 at 10:27 PM Post #3,828 of 9,173
  So, I finally got a Z7 in, and now I can proceed to bash it mercilessly! Hahaha!
 
Okay, seriously, though, I think it's a nice headphone. In fact, a very nice headphone.
 
I take back whatever I said about this thing.
 
Out of my iPhone and portable devices, it sounds exactly like how I thought its measurements looked. Bass indistinct, smeared, unfocused, lacking slam, weight, and texture. Midrange too warm, congested, and distant at the same time. Also too shouty. Treble peaky and yet dark, lacking air.
 
But out of my DIY amp and DAC setup that I built for the HE-560 (read: super overkill powerful, I could drive the HE-6 to insane levels with this), it sounds stupendous. Soundstage definitely not up to par with my HE-560, but depth is excellent. Bass is much more focused, much tighter, much more slamming. Midrange more focused, and aside from the shouty midrange and the slight treble peak at 7-8KHz that can be heard, it's... actually very nice.
 
And I haven't even modded this thing yet.
 
Color me... very impressed.
 
basshead.gif

 
I would like to read some comparisons between your Z7 and your HE-560 if you have the time. Before I purchased my Z7 I heavily followed the HE-560 thread and was almost set on a pair but I decided to take a break from Hifiman's planar world and explore comparable dynamic offerings. I imagine that the Z7 complements the HE-560 well. 
 
Jan 6, 2015 at 10:40 PM Post #3,829 of 9,173
No, I wish I had a spare cable around... since the stock cable is way too long for my preferred portable use. But I can definitely see myself using the Z7 as a portable headphone one of these days. Size and bulkiness be damned... and I'm not exactly a small fella anyway.

Simple front-damping mods have proven that the midrange and treble can be tuned closer to my preference, so I'm happy now. I'll probably open the back up and apply some dynamats to tighten the bass, and then I think that should do the trick. These are surprisingly easy to mod... though I suspect that's due to the amount of room available.


Please post pictures of the Dynamat mods that you're going to do. I'm very interested to see the difference they make and how much you use compared to a Denon mod.
 
Jan 7, 2015 at 1:41 AM Post #3,831 of 9,173
How does one know if they are not messing something else up in the audio spectrum by fixing the first problem? Seems like a hard mod to pull off correctly.

You don't, it's a trail by error method.  But a good damping will solidify bass response by limiting unwanted vibration from the earcups.  You can also clean up the sound in general by upgrading to higher quality cable.  I've found that silver cable to clean up the bass and enhance the high that is somewhat subdued on the Z7.  I'm sure a higher grade copper will also help with this matter.  But silver usually will enhance the details as well as provide better resolution compared to copper.  YMMV.
 
Jan 7, 2015 at 2:04 PM Post #3,833 of 9,173
  I would like to read some comparisons between your Z7 and your HE-560 if you have the time. Before I purchased my Z7 I heavily followed the HE-560 thread and was almost set on a pair but I decided to take a break from Hifiman's planar world and explore comparable dynamic offerings. I imagine that the Z7 complements the HE-560 well. 

 
My HE-560 is super modded at this point, and it sounds obviously better than stock (I had the chance to compare), HE-6 and LCD-3, so it's going to be a hard battle for the Z7.
 
Isolation is much better on Z7. I think stock HE-560 would be less comfortable than stock Z7, but after a few mods, the 560 is a lot more comfortable, and I think the Z7 is just a tad uncomfortable due to the leather ear pads heating up faster.
 
Bass on the 560 is more focused, tight, and present than Z7. Whereas Z7 has a more enveloping/diffused bass.
Midrange on the 560 is hardly warm, and is also very tightly focused, with just a hint of forwardness, whereas the Z7 is much more forward, and with more warmth, yet also with more upper midrange that can cause a bit of "flaring" in certain songs. Since I'm used to 560, going to Z7 was a good deal more fatiguing, and the Z7 also has the tendency to be harsh/sibilant more often than 560.
Treble is also better on 560. In terms of quantity, there's not a lot more. In fact, Z7 has more of a peak compared to 560. However, the 560 sounds significantly more open, faster, and overall much more effortless here.
And soundstage is... of course, a nod toward 560 as well. Z7 sounded bunched up together for me. Even with amping, which improved clarity, but only to a point.
 
In stock form, I think 560 is significantly ahead of Z7.
 
I have applied some extensive mods to the Z7 since then... and here's comparison against the 560 again when both are super modded:
 
Bass is more focused on Z7 now. 560 is still a bit ahead in focus, but Z7 has added force and kick. In terms of bass texturing and body, both are about equal. Extension is probably about the same for both, so it turns out Z7 can reach pretty deep down once the bloat is removed, and more focus is achieved.
 
Midrange on Z7 is just right now. There is still a hint of grain/harshness, and a bit of upper midrange left compared to 560, but honestly, it's just because the 560 is so effortless, so fast, so euphoric here. I think it's more because I spent more time modding the 560 to this point rather than a fault with the Z7. From memory, Z7 is cleanly beating stock 560 now. So these definitely have the modding potential as discussed. Going back and forth between the 2, I think I prefer female vocals slightly more on Z7. Weird enough, instruments are more precise, more realistic, more... sharp on 560 compared to Z7. Z7 still sort of sounds diffused here. Still a bit more fatiguing than 560, but not significantly more anymore, so I guess that's a good thing.
 
Treble on Z7 is now more present, but still not overbearing, and still lacking air and ultimate clarity. What is there is good, but I think this is just an inherent limitation with this headphone.
 
Soundstage on Z7 is now much better, with depth that's almost equal to my modded 560. Width is still just okay. Center image is sharp and focused, but as I go closer to the edges, imaging becomes more and more diffused. I'm starting to think this may be another limitation. Separation is now better than stock, but still not as effortless as 560, which happily lays everything out in their own space, and sculpt them all to perfection. But then again, I'm comparing a closed headphone to an open one. Plus knowing the 560, I'd say my Z7 should be just a bit behind, if not equal, to stock 560's soundstage.
 
At this point, I'd be happy using either headphone, without having to worry too much about what I'm missing with the Z7, and what I'm gaining with the 560. The added isolation of the Z7 is a big plus in some cases where I require absolute silence in my listening space.
 
All in all, I'd say... the Z7 is a good closed-back headphone... if it's around $500 or so, and if it came with a tuning similar to mine at stock. Otherwise, it has potential, but I think the stock tuning is totally inappropriate for a headphone that's touting "high definition" in its namesake. 
 
Also, many have said that the Z7 is a very relaxed headphone, but... I respectfully disagree. Stock Z7 is a very dark, very aggressive headphone to me, with lackluster bass. Granted, I can see some preferring this tuning because it helps with overly gentle, relaxed songs. But I don't think it'll do rock, pop, modern jazz and electronic any favor.
 
Please post pictures of the Dynamat mods that you're going to do. I'm very interested to see the difference they make and how much you use compared to a Denon mod.

 
Actually, I'm not using a lot at all.
 
I tried to apply a bit, but then sibilance and such became more evident due to inner reflections with the aluminum surface on the dynamat, so... obviously a different approach was necessary.
 
So instead, I left the ear cups hollow, tried to tweak around the port openings to control air flow inside the ear cups instead, and applied some extra front dampening materials.
 
I think there is more... much more to be done. And I may have to apply a completely different approach with the Z7 than the other headphones I have worked with.
 
Jan 7, 2015 at 2:15 PM Post #3,834 of 9,173
I just found this very throughout review of the Z7 from a reputable Taiwanese forum (Google Translate): https://translate.google.com.hk/translate?sl=zh-CN&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=zh-TW&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.andaudio.com%2Fphpbb3%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ff%3D25%26t%3D115589%26start%3D4325%23p1078336&edit-text=
 
I would say it is the best Z7 review to date.
 
Jan 7, 2015 at 4:58 PM Post #3,835 of 9,173
This low treble peak and harsh upper mids worry me a bit. Not that I'm overly sensitve for treble peaks or forward upper mids, but I ordered the Sony's for their relaxed sound everyone else in this thread is talking about.
Now it seems the Z7s are like a pair of rebranded Denon D5000s, headphones I love, but I don't have a need for another pair.
My Z7s will arive next month, but I may well just cancel the order...I have to think it about though....
 
Jan 7, 2015 at 5:20 PM Post #3,836 of 9,173
  This low treble peak and harsh upper mids worry me a bit. Not that I'm overly sensitve for treble peaks or forward upper mids, but I ordered the Sony's for their relaxed sound everyone else in this thread is talking about.
Now it seems the Z7s are like a pair of rebranded Denon D5000s, headphones I love, but I don't have a need for another pair.
My Z7s will arive next month, but I may well just cancel the order...I have to think it about though....

I doubt that the treble peak will be too bad for you.  The peak happens at a lower frequency response compared to that of the Senn HD-800 so it hardly irritate your ears.  The Z7 is a very relaxed headhone to listen to and I can listen to them for hours without any fatigue.  You should be more concern if you are not accustomed to bassy phones however.  I generally like flatter sounding phones with plenty of resolutions, and it take awhile to acclimate myself to the sound of the Z7.  I now do enjoy listening to my recabled MDR-Z7 every day.
 
Jan 7, 2015 at 5:24 PM Post #3,837 of 9,173
My HE-560 is super modded at this point, and it sounds obviously better than stock (I had the chance to compare), HE-6 and LCD-3, so it's going to be a hard battle for the Z7.

Isolation is much better on Z7. I think stock HE-560 would be less comfortable than stock Z7, but after a few mods, the 560 is a lot more comfortable, and I think the Z7 is just a tad uncomfortable due to the leather ear pads heating up faster.

Bass on the 560 is more focused, tight, and present than Z7. Whereas Z7 has a more enveloping/diffused bass.
Midrange on the 560 is hardly warm, and is also very tightly focused, with just a hint of forwardness, whereas the Z7 is much more forward, and with more warmth, yet also with more upper midrange that can cause a bit of "flaring" in certain songs. Since I'm used to 560, going to Z7 was a good deal more fatiguing, and the Z7 also has the tendency to be harsh/sibilant more often than 560.
Treble is also better on 560. In terms of quantity, there's not a lot more. In fact, Z7 has more of a peak compared to 560. However, the 560 sounds significantly more open, faster, and overall much more effortless here.
And soundstage is... of course, a nod toward 560 as well. Z7 sounded bunched up together for me. Even with amping, which improved clarity, but only to a point.

In stock form, I think 560 is significantly ahead of Z7.

I have applied some extensive mods to the Z7 since then... and here's comparison against the 560 again when both are super modded:

Bass is more focused on Z7 now. 560 is still a bit ahead in focus, but Z7 has added force and kick. In terms of bass texturing and body, both are about equal. Extension is probably about the same for both, so it turns out Z7 can reach pretty deep down once the bloat is removed, and more focus is achieved.

Midrange on Z7 is just right now. There is still a hint of grain/harshness, and a bit of upper midrange left compared to 560, but honestly, it's just because the 560 is so effortless, so fast, so euphoric here. I think it's more because I spent more time modding the 560 to this point rather than a fault with the Z7. From memory, Z7 is cleanly beating stock 560 now. So these definitely have the modding potential as discussed. Going back and forth between the 2, I think I prefer female vocals slightly more on Z7. Weird enough, instruments are more precise, more realistic, more... sharp on 560 compared to Z7. Z7 still sort of sounds diffused here. Still a bit more fatiguing than 560, but not significantly more anymore, so I guess that's a good thing.

Treble on Z7 is now more present, but still not overbearing, and still lacking air and ultimate clarity. What is there is good, but I think this is just an inherent limitation with this headphone.

Soundstage on Z7 is now much better, with depth that's almost equal to my modded 560. Width is still just okay. Center image is sharp and focused, but as I go closer to the edges, imaging becomes more and more diffused. I'm starting to think this may be another limitation. Separation is now better than stock, but still not as effortless as 560, which happily lays everything out in their own space, and sculpt them all to perfection. But then again, I'm comparing a closed headphone to an open one. Plus knowing the 560, I'd say my Z7 should be just a bit behind, if not equal, to stock 560's soundstage.

At this point, I'd be happy using either headphone, without having to worry too much about what I'm missing with the Z7, and what I'm gaining with the 560. The added isolation of the Z7 is a big plus in some cases where I require absolute silence in my listening space.

All in all, I'd say... the Z7 is a good closed-back headphone... if it's around $500 or so, and if it came with a tuning similar to mine at stock. Otherwise, it has potential, but I think the stock tuning is totally inappropriate for a headphone that's touting "high definition" in its namesake. 

Also, many have said that the Z7 is a very relaxed headphone, but... I respectfully disagree. Stock Z7 is a very dark, very aggressive headphone to me, with lackluster bass. Granted, I can see some preferring this tuning because it helps with overly gentle, relaxed songs. But I don't think it'll do rock, pop, modern jazz and electronic any favor.


Actually, I'm not using a lot at all.

I tried to apply a bit, but then sibilance and such became more evident due to inner reflections with the aluminum surface on the dynamat, so... obviously a different approach was necessary.

So instead, I left the ear cups hollow, tried to tweak around the port openings to control air flow inside the ear cups instead, and applied some extra front dampening materials.

I think there is more... much more to be done. And I may have to apply a completely different approach with the Z7 than the other headphones I have worked with.


I'd love to hear how to do your mods, especially if they're reversible
 
Jan 7, 2015 at 5:28 PM Post #3,838 of 9,173
  I doubt that the treble peak will be too bad for you.  The peak happens at a lower frequency response compared to that of the Senn HD-800 so it hardly irritate your ears.  The Z7 is a very relaxed headhone to listen to and I can listen to them for hours without any fatigue.  You should be more concern if you are not accustomed to bassy phones however.  I generally like flatter sounding phones with plenty of resolutions, and it take awhile to acclimate myself to the sound of the Z7.  I now do enjoy listening to my recabled MDR-Z7 every day.

Thanks. This is reassuring.
And I don't mind bassy headphones at all :)
 
Jan 7, 2015 at 8:48 PM Post #3,839 of 9,173
  This low treble peak and harsh upper mids worry me a bit. Not that I'm overly sensitve for treble peaks or forward upper mids, but I ordered the Sony's for their relaxed sound everyone else in this thread is talking about.
Now it seems the Z7s are like a pair of rebranded Denon D5000s, headphones I love, but I don't have a need for another pair.
My Z7s will arive next month, but I may well just cancel the order...I have to think it about though....

 
There are several people posting here (including me) who considered cancelling our Z7 orders. Yet most were/are surprised at how good they are.
 
Jan 7, 2015 at 8:54 PM Post #3,840 of 9,173
 
Now it seems the Z7s are like a pair of rebranded Denon D5000s, headphones I love, but I don't have a need for another pair..

 
from what i gather in loosely following this thread on and off (so correct me if i'm wrong), but the Z7 and old denon line are similar, but with more mid-bass emphasis on the Z7, and more sub-bass on the denons.
 
so not quite a "rebrand", but probably similar.
 

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