[Mathieulh]

With that kind of attitude, why did you even bother raising this issue in the first place? Do you really believe that you can waltz in here with this sort of statement and expect it to be accepted without any elaboration and or documentation as to how you arrived at your conclusions? From what it sounds like, you haven't even attempted to measure the thing.

If you can't even be bothered to put in the effort to substantiate your argument, don't bother making one in the first place.

Isn't that what others did? Claiming how there is a "difference in the sound across region" without objectively measuring any of it?

Let's face it, the placebo effect is real and anyone who "uses his ears" to measure a difference in sound profile is a fool.

Worst case scenario you'd use a scope and perform measurements on the same device using the 2 different destinations (or possible profiles) at the same volume/SPL, the rest is pseudo science and hogwash. Yet I haven't seen people asking these people to "justify their claims".

That's hypocrisy at its best.

Considering how much I get paid by the hour for software engineering work (which I don't lack at the moment), I am not going to spend more time on this, I looked at the firmware files (for the heck of it, honestly), and could not find any tuning profiles that are different across destinations other than CEW or CEW2, perhaps the DAC does apply different configurations internally depending on what region is set at init, that's very unlikely however, feel free to prove me wrong.

 

[Mathieulh]

Like I have said a thousand times before. I don’t care about graphs or charts or even science for that matter. Those are al measurements and theories that are documented on paper to confuse and mislead people. Has a headphone actually sounded exactly how the measurement charts were? Well never! Real crap to me. I trust my ears. And they’re never wrong as they’re wired to my brain. So the difference between regions are very very real. Believe that!

Well then keep on trusting "your ears" if that's what you consider objective measurement.

This is seriously laughable.

 

[godfall]

I am telling you, having analyzed the firmare that there are no tuning differences between uncapped destinations (that is destinations other than CEW and CEW2), on respective devices (that is, there are technically no changes in tuning profiles in the firmware files!) So, whatever differences you think you hear aren't there, period.

the kind of person that when he says it, you should believe it.
he's mr. right and know it all.

with most of the people here that can hear a difference, how can you have a valid argument when you don't show your proof and just claim it just like that?

anyway, k, bye.

 

[MrWalkman]

Is that what others did? Claiming how there is a "difference in the sound across region" without objectively measuring any of it?

Let's face it, the placebo effect is real and anyone who "uses his ears" to measure a difference in sound profile is a fool.

Worst case scenario you'd use a scope and perform measurements on the same device using the 2 different destinations (or possible profiles) at the same volume/SPL, the rest is pseudo science and hogwash. Yet I haven't seen people asking these people to "justify their claims".

That's hypocrisy at its best.

Considering how much I get paid by the hour for software engineering work (which I don't lack at the moment), I am not going to spend more time on this, I looked at the firmware files (for the heck of it, honestly), and could not find any tuning profiles that are different across destinations other than CEW or CEW2, perhaps the DAC does apply different configurations internally depending on what region is set at init, that's very unlikely however, feel free to prove me wrong.

I think I know what you're talking about. However, the different things for CEW/CEW2 are volume tables only, meant to reduce the volume, and not to alter the sound signature.

I was talking with the guy who created the destination tool about possible differences in the sound regarding destinations, and he confirmed that while doing some reverse engineering on sound drivers, he found little differences according to the region that is being set.

 

[Mathieulh]

the kind of person that when he says it, you should believe it.
he's mr. right and know it all.

with most of the people here that can hear a difference, how can you have a valid argument when you don't show your proof and just claim it just like that?

anyway, k, bye.

As I have said:
1. Human ears are NOT objective measurement and are subjected to the placebo effect.
2. I don't care if you believe my claims or not, feel free to look at UPG files yourself, why should I spend hours on detailing how to unpack, diassemble and look into those firmware, I am not paid for this, if you want this done, nobody is stopping you, I don't care about proving any of this to you.
3. Feel free to prove me wrong, rent a scope, do actual measurements, and report any significant differences (variarions outside of the margin of error).

I am done arguing this because this is getting utterly riddiculous.

 

[aceedburn]

Ok let’s move on guys. This discussion is going nowhere as everyone here knows for a fact that the sound differs between regions. We don’t need to start a pointless debate that is not substantiated by any substance or facts by an individual who obviously lacks the true essence of music enjoyment. Back to good old Walkman firmwares.

 

[Mathieulh]

I think I know what you're talking about. However, the different things for CEW/CEW2 are volume tables only, meant to reduce the volume, and not to alter the sound signature.

I was talking with the guy who created the destination tool about possible differences in the sound regarding destinations, and he confirmed that while doing some reverse engineering on sound drivers, he found little differences according to the region that is being set.

Thanks for the insight, I will take a closer look at the drivers themselves once I have the time.

 

[unifutomaki]

Is that what others did? Claiming how there is a "difference in the sound across region" without objectively measuring any of it?

Let's face it, the placebo effect is real and anyone who "uses his ears" to measure a difference in sound profile is a fool, worst case scenario you'd use a scope and perform measurements on the same device using the 2 different destinations (or possible profiles) at the same volume/SPL, the rest is pseudo science and hogwash. Yet I haven't seen people asking these people to "justify their claims".

That's hypocrisy at its best.

Considering how much I get paid by the hour for software engineering work (which I don't lack at the moment), I am not going to spend more time on this, I looked at the firmware files (for the heck of it, honestly), and could not find any tuning profiles that are different across destinations other than CEW or CEW2, perhaps the DAC does apply different configurations internally depending on what region is set at init, that's very unlikely however, feel free to prove me wrong.

In my line of work, human perception is just as valid a source of information as objective measurements. Before you start deriding our perceptual abilities, bear in mind that sound waves don't magically become music any more than light rays make up a visual scene: our auditory system is responsible for that.

The nice thing about human perception is that it can too be quantified, either by self report or other means, and compared with the actual physical characteristics of the stimulus to ascertain the degree to which conscious percepts (our mental world) differ from the real, physical world.

In the audio hobby, an example of a substantiated thesis based on perceptual reports was against the effects of overpriced cables on sound. Double-blind tests involving human perceptual judgements were conducted to make that case. Regardless of whether you agree or disagree with that conclusion, the methodology and findings are documented for public review. They didn't simply drop a claim and then walk away from it.

So if you ask me, having corroborating reports of sound differences based on region, coupled with a plausible hypothesis as to how this might occur, represents a form of evidence favouring an effect of region on sound. It may not be irrefutable, objective evidence of fact, but it's not nothing. You on the other hand have come up with nothing. And it's up to you how much time you want to spend pursuing this, but I wouldn't be surprised by the pushback in that case.

 

[WilcoRoger]

My 2c - double blind test the different regions. Would take only 4-5 units each on different regions. Otherwise the placebo is a very real thing (no, I won't mention cables, I really won't! ). Not that I would put it above Sony to apply different tuning for the different regions, after all they DO change features based on regions.

 

[Queen6]

There's absolutely something in it and with logical rational from regional music preferences to the geometry of the human ear across various races and that's from a professional acoustics engineer who designs systems and DAC's for major companies.

Similar to cabling, why does the likes of Hifiman go to the trouble of designing a copper & silver HP cable? Yet both lines will measure the same? Both lines are not visible without disassembly of the cable, so there is no overt placebo effect and anyone who has Hifiman HP knows that they are not remotely concerned with impressing via the cable very much the opposite LOL

Local cable maker made up a 4.4 balanced to dual 3.5 TRS for me and stated very clearly and at some length the differences in material, yet there was no cost differnce to me why?

Why, it sounds different that's why...

N.B I don't buy into $2K cables, four figure Mod's or much of the Snake Oil that flows in the audio game.

Q-6

 

[seanwee]

There are no sound signature changes between destination, other than CEW and CEW2 which are volume (and on some devices) pressure capped. All other destinations share the same tuning on respective devices. Everything else is the placebo effect.

If you want a decent destination setting, set E or E2, those are used (depending on the model) for the international/tourist/overseas versions sold in Japan, they will not sound any different from the J destination.

They do sound different, though some are close enough i can say its placebo. I did a blind test a few days back.

After switching regions around for a bit I started to doubt if the changes i was "hearing" were placebo.

So i decided to do a randomised region change to see if there really is a noticeable difference.



And, I couldn't reliably name which region was which.

Heres how it went
Region -> my guess

J -> CA
E -> J
CA -> J
CN -> CA
MX3 -> CN

So is it just placebo after all? Not entirely. I was listening for detail, warmth and bass. For the first 3, J E and CA bass was similar but when switcing to CN and MX3 i noticed there was more rumble, hence why i mistook CN for CA initially and CN for MX3 subsequently. J i mistook for CA due to its weak and less comtrolled bass coming from CN. E and CA i couldn't really tell what they were so i just threw a wild guess for both. Couldn't reliably hear a difference in detail between all of them due to the song i picked focusing on bass rather than details.

Conclusion? I'm sticking to CN/MX3 for now for their deeper bass and better bass control.

My 2c - double blind test the different regions. Would take only 4-5 units each on different regions. Otherwise the placebo is a very real thing (no, I won't mention cables, I really won't! ). Not that I would put it above Sony to apply different tuning for the different regions, after all they DO change features based on regions.

If it were just a few regions i'd believe that, but to have different tunings for many tens of regions I'd be highly skeptical as it'll take so much effort for negligible returns. Heck Sony doesn't even let the public know about this "feature".

And yet somehow its there with a small yet very real effect on the sound, no doubt about it.

 

[Mathieulh]

As a sidenote, if anyone is interested in looking into UPG files (instead of just spouting out nonesense), here is something to get you started:

Clone https://git.rockbox.org/cgit/rockbox.git/tree/utils/nwztools/upgtools, install the dependencies (as far as I can remember you'll need libcrypto++-dev )
build the binary (I just run ./make_release.sh 1.00 ) , then run the following command (this is just an example, you will need to change it according to your device, index...)

./upgtool_64-v1.00 -e NW_WM_FW.UPG_FE -o DMP300FE -m nw-zx300 -f -z 2 -z 3 -z 4 -z 5 -z 6 -z 7 -z 8

If your device is not listed for whatever reason, you can dump your kas using the destination tool here:
https://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SonyNWDestTool

and the following command:

scsitool-nwz-v27.exe d: get_dnk_prop kas

and use the kas with upgtool and the -a argument.

 

[Queen6]

They do sound different, though some are close enough i can say its placebo. I did a blind test a few days back.


If it were just a few regions i'd believe that, but to have different tunings for many tens of regions I'd be highly skeptical as it'll take so much effort for negligible returns. Heck Sony doesn't even let the public know about this "feature".

And yet somehow its there with a small yet very real effect on the sound, no doubt about it.

Sony is one that can do this as they likely have a great deal of data/metrics given the scope of the company. Sony wont disclose as it would only serve to raise more questions and reveal that in some cases it's 95% SW creating the differnce, not the hardware or your hard earned $$$$. As for cost negligible at best once the ground work is done and given the number of players the OS is applied to a drop in the ocean.

As I'll reiterate for others this does not come as surprise to an insider in the industry rather the opposite...

Q-6

 

[unifutomaki]

"Spouting out nonsense" sorry mate, this is where I quit engaging with you, because no matter what I say it'll just be nonsense to you because you've already made your mind up

Remember that I have always been willing to evaluate your conclusions and how you arrived at them, but telling me to go look myself is like claiming that you have invented a vaccine for Covid but then going on to tell everyone to go synthesise it themselves if they don't take your word for it.

Have a good day.

 

[Ivan4you]

Are There more people That love the reloaded+ firmware more Then the FE firmware on the a40?