[sardar17]

  That was exactly what I was getting at, you simply don't get a full picture simply by looking at the specs alone. Also there would be other reasons rather than 'pure' performance that a consumer would choose one product over the other. 
 
Focusing only on the single requirement of multitasking. I like to multitask so I went with an android device, but if it wasn't a priority for me then I would consider an Apple device.
 
You also mention that the A8 chip is only second to the Tegra chips, but due to power consumption they aren't featured in any current smartphone, and is considered a tablet class CPU. The same can be said about trying to cram the internals of the Colourfly C4 into a ZX1 chasiss. There'd simply be little to no room left for a reasonably sized battery. That is if you think a ZX1 sized player with the guts and sonic performance of a Colourfly is acceptable with less than an actual Colourfly C4's battery life of 6 hours. Is >5 hours acceptable?
 
But I do see what you're getting at. It would be interesting if Sony made a PHA-1/2/3 unit with built in playback for those who needed to drive higher impedance headphones or more demanding IEMs. But that is an entirely different size/ class of product altogether. Like Android and iOS, why must there be only the 'One' product to rule them all?
 
You did after all mention in the the new Walkman A10 thread that you wouldn't buy or consider any piece of audio equipment without an audition, which is the best practice. Why is it it different here?

 
Its not different,,the point is a17 due to its very small size will have a similar chip to other walkmans and i have already owned s series and e series.
The capacitors that are shown in zx1 infographic are accomodated due to its large size and a17 has very slim profile.
 
I am just waiting for a17 to come to stores in canada,i will ask my cousin to go and check it out,,,he went yesterday and was mighty impressed with x5 and ak 100/120 especially with ui of ak series but ended up getting x1 for himself.
 
So for me the bare minimum would be beating x1 sonically .
 
But i have been really curious on colorfly c3,,,,surely it has ****ty interface but if it sounds as reviews say it does i may get it.
Problem is i cannot audition **** in india,,,apart from lower walkmans(s,e,b).............nothing of value is present here

 

[Retrias]

but do you own a more recent sony DAP for a comparison , like I dont know the new F series maybe ? what you are doing is more or less the same as judging the fiio x1 by saying that you owned the fiio x5 and would know what the X1 sounds like based on spec

I dont think thats an actually wise tthing to do

 

[sardar17]

but do you own a more recent sony DAP for a comparison , like I dont know the new F series maybe ? what you are doing is more or less the same as judging the fiio x1 by saying that you owned the fiio x5 and would know what the X1 sounds like based on spec

I dont think thats an actually wise tthing to do

Multiple posters have already said that even a17 sounds pretty much like the a series.
The difference is always between the dsee enabled/not,,,,noise cancellation/not,,,,,,android/not,s-master/not(maybe it matters)
 
But to answer your question,no and thats why i haven't pre ordered anything,,i want to get something other than my old clip+,,,,,,i just cannot audition anything here.Even stupid sony did not release a10 series in india.
 
And read previous post,,i will ask my cousin in canada to sample a17,,he already owns x1 and then i will decide.
 
 
 
zx1 is an exception due to cost and also size to other walkmans.

 

[xjaynine]

 
The capacitors that are shown in zx1 infographic are accomodated due to its large size and a17 has very slim profile.
 

 
Indeed the implementation of the S-Master HX are very different on all the models that use the chip (ZX1, F880, and A10).
 
What I don't understand is that all of a sudden when talking about the A10 Walkman size is suddenly an legitimate design issue when compared to 'larger' Walkmans that use similar integrated audio chips. And when talking about something like the Colourfly C4, suddenly size of a DAP is not really a factor. 
 
Owning an older A-series Walkman only makes for fun comparisons with the newer models, it doesn't make one an "A-series" veteran or expert. It doesn't necessarily mean that the new A10 will sound similar to the older models of the same A-family. Arguably the new A10 might share more with the ZX and the F880 series as they're built around the same S-Master HX chip. Even then there's no guarantee there either.
 
If you were an AK120 owner could you have predicted the sound signature/ performance of the AK240?
 
If you are looking for a potential replacement for your Clip+, instead of posting blanket general assumptions on audio equipment that you have zero first hand experience with. Why don't you post what you are looking for in a DAP?
 
- What headphones/ IEMs do you own? 
- Of your headphone/ IEM collection which do you intend to pair with your future DAP?
- What are your expections with battery life?
- Do you mind carrying a larger DAP? Or is size and compactness a priority for you?
- Android or not?
- &c
 
Again there's a wealth of first hand information from members with pretty much any DAP under the Sun on this forum. If you ask them specific questions related to your own specific personal needs then maybe you'll be closer to finding a product that suits you.

 

[amf123]

Well I received my ZX1 about a week ago to very mixed feelings.  The player itself is beautiful, the menu system is easy and works without a hitch, and the added storage space over my X1060 is hugely appreciated.  I can now store flac instead of converting everything to AAC.  Thats the good points.  However I was massively dissappointed to find out how WEAK the internal amplifier is.  I use XBA-H3's on my X1060 and they can shake my brain on two thirds volume.  On the ZX1 it was an entirely different story, on some older quieter tracks I could have it on full volume and it still wasn't loud enough.  And of course as you go higher on the volume the bass completely disappears, there isn't nearly enough current.  It's pretty rotten that Sony would release a player that can't even cope with their own current IEM range.  So I had two choices, get an amp or get more sensitive IEM's.  I took the opportunity of getting a pair of Shure 846's and can now tell you the player absolutely amazing.  Even on half volume the amp is plenty strong enough.  I'm really happy with the sound of the current set up but let me tell you, it turned into a VERY expensive experience.

 

[hola]

  Well I received my ZX1 about a week ago to very mixed feelings.  The player itself is beautiful, the menu system is easy and works without a hitch, and the added storage space over my X1060 is hugely appreciated.  I can now store flac instead of converting everything to AAC.  Thats the good points.  However I was massively dissappointed to find out how WEAK the internal amplifier is.  I use XBA-H3's on my X1060 and they can shake my brain on two thirds volume.  On the ZX1 it was an entirely different story, on some older quieter tracks I could have it on full volume and it still wasn't loud enough.  And of course as you go higher on the volume the bass completely disappears, there isn't nearly enough current.  It's pretty rotten that Sony would release a player that can't even cope with their own current IEM range.  So I had two choices, get an amp or get more sensitive IEM's.  I took the opportunity of getting a pair of Shure 846's and can now tell you the player absolutely amazing.  Even on half volume the amp is plenty strong enough.  I'm really happy with the sound of the current set up but let me tell you, it turned into a VERY expensive experience.

 
Bumper : (

 

[castleofargh]

actually the A10 sounds more like the last E model or a F866 (so I guess also like a ZX1).
old A series souded warmer with some kind of smoothed out and rolled off trebles. also the crosstalk (I'm guessing it's crosstalk from how the imaging changes) was lower on the old A series, they would give a "soundstage" that wasn't so wide but had nice depth and height(it felt smaller but 3D).
all the new sonys have a much better stereo separation and the instruments go wide on each sides, and not so much in front.
so even without thinking amp power, those are differences enough not to use an old A as reference.
 
the A10 was clearly made for size and battery, so it's not a surprise that it will not output as much as some others. if the ZX1 is weak for some IEMs, stay away from the A10. that's all I'm gonna say.
also with something like a se846, I'm very much confident that you would hear hiss on the A10. people have been telling me that the ZX1 had lower hiss than the F886, so I would go with that or buy and external amp if I had very sensitive or more power hungry IEMs(which I have and I do have an amp^_^, amazing I'm actually doing what I recommend \o/ ).
 
 
@sardar17 did you hear the C4? it's not really powerfull, I'm not sure it's noise free (at least not cellphone noise free that's for sure), has crappy battery life and is big(also can't read most file formats). if that is your ideal DAP then my friend we really don't have the same vision for DAPs.
if I go portable, in my head that means convenient first. if then it happens to sound good, it's a bonus, but certainly not my primary target (if I really want the best sound I'll buy a home system, no size or power supply limitations). in fact I never bought the best sounding DAP in the last 10years. when confronted with practical friendly UI, long battery and small size, I always buy that instead of a brick, even though I did think most of the times that the bricks were sounding amazing. did you try a DX100? it great with a wide range of IEMs and headphones, sounds real clean. but everything else is sad. maybe that's one DAP for you if you really focus on sound.

 

[jnak00]

How do you get album art to show up in the stock player?  Sometimes the art shows up, sometimes not, and I have no idea why.  I tried the cover art downloader app, and it worked for both adding the art to the folder, and for tagging individual songs with the art.  But when I go back and refresh the stock player, it only worked for about 10% of my albums.  I can't seem to figure out what the player is looking for- I've got the art in both the folder and in the ID3 tag and it still won't display.
 
PowerAmp seems to display the album art fine, but I prefer the stock player.
 
Any ideas?

 

[Jeff]

For correcting artwork, I found the Media Go software to work best.

 

[yakkosmurf]

  For correcting artwork, I found the Media Go software to work best.

Ditto

 

[jnak00]

Thanks, I'll give it a try

 

[sardar17]

  actually the A10 sounds more like the last E model or a F866 (so I guess also like a ZX1).
old A series souded warmer with some kind of smoothed out and rolled off trebles. also the crosstalk (I'm guessing it's crosstalk from how the imaging changes) was lower on the old A series, they would give a "soundstage" that wasn't so wide but had nice depth and height(it felt smaller but 3D).
all the new sonys have a much better stereo separation and the instruments go wide on each sides, and not so much in front.
so even without thinking amp power, those are differences enough not to use an old A as reference.
 
the A10 was clearly made for size and battery, so it's not a surprise that it will not output as much as some others. if the ZX1 is weak for some IEMs, stay away from the A10. that's all I'm gonna say.
also with something like a se846, I'm very much confident that you would hear hiss on the A10. people have been telling me that the ZX1 had lower hiss than the F886, so I would go with that or buy and external amp if I had very sensitive or more power hungry IEMs(which I have and I do have an amp^_^, amazing I'm actually doing what I recommend \o/ ).
 
 
@sardar17 did you hear the C4? it's not really powerfull, I'm not sure it's noise free (at least not cellphone noise free that's for sure), has crappy battery life and is big(also can't read most file formats). if that is your ideal DAP then my friend we really don't have the same vision for DAPs.
if I go portable, in my head that means convenient first. if then it happens to sound good, it's a bonus, but certainly not my primary target (if I really want the best sound I'll buy a home system, no size or power supply limitations). in fact I never bought the best sounding DAP in the last 10years. when confronted with practical friendly UI, long battery and small size, I always buy that instead of a brick, even though I did think most of the times that the bricks were sounding amazing. did you try a DX100? it great with a wide range of IEMs and headphones, sounds real clean. but everything else is sad. maybe that's one DAP for you if you really focus on sound.

If it sounds like the last e model,,i had e-474 just a while back then sony needs to step up seriously.
My cousin's friend just got x5 and he says there is no competition between x5 and f886,,,now he could be wrong or right,i don't know.
 
All i know is that e series was nothing special,same warm house sound with good bass impact like almost all sony players,,,for whats worth i gave it to my brother and kept clip+ myself.
 
Man dx 100 is far far too costly,,,if i have to spend that much i may get cowon p1 i think due to interface and jet effect

 

[cheznous]

  How do you get album art to show up in the stock player?  Sometimes the art shows up, sometimes not, and I have no idea why.  I tried the cover art downloader app, and it worked for both adding the art to the folder, and for tagging individual songs with the art.  But when I go back and refresh the stock player, it only worked for about 10% of my albums.  I can't seem to figure out what the player is looking for- I've got the art in both the folder and in the ID3 tag and it still won't display.
 
PowerAmp seems to display the album art fine, but I prefer the stock player.
 
Any ideas?

Another point I found is that assuming the art is in the album folder as a jpeg then give it a unique name as opposed to all being called album art.jpg.
Then the art will show in your pictures and when the album is playing you can go to menu and add the art.
I think having the same name for the pictures confuses the hell out of the Sony.

 

[tk3]

For my old Japanese A847, I remember there were several reasons why album art wouldn't show up:
 
1) it didn't support the .png format
2) multiple covers attached to the same file, and the device tried to show the first picture (which was a .png or other file)  --> delete them until you only get the file you want in .jpg format
3) resolution/file size: try to resize your pictures until they match or get close to the device's screen resolution

 

[AT1987]

@castleofargh
 
I think one reason that A10 has the sound like E series may be the engineer who creating this is the same person who makes the E series. I met him at the launch event in Thailand where he also showed the circuit boards of the old E or S series and A10 circuit board.
 
From the side I saw. Both of them have almost the same component except the amplifier section that A10 use POSCAP for removing noise from power source.