[Achmedisdead]

Yeah, and imagine what the total price will be if you can only import from Japan ?

 

 
 

 

[FenderP]

   
Sony was smart, it waited till there was a respectable market for it and it did it research on what people want. However they are still very stubborn for not including expansion slot. It seems like loosing to SD family is still bitter on their mind.

 
What planet are you on? Every Vaio has a SD slot, all the cameras can use SD ...
 
Sony isn't stubborn. Starting with the NW-HD series, they've never offered expandability. Anyone who thinks they're going to start now is delusional.

 

[FenderP]

Yeah, and imagine what the total price will be if you can only import from Japan ?
 

About $1k all in. I wouldn't expect this to show up outside of Japan. I would be surprised if it did.

 

[starfly]

  About $1k all in. I wouldn't expect this to show up outside of Japan. I would be surprised if it did.

 
Ouch... guess I'll have to keep using my ipod. Or maybe the Fiio X5 will be friendlier to my wallet.

 

[FenderP]

   
Ouch... guess I'll have to keep using my ipod. Or maybe the Fiio X5 will be friendlier to my wallet.

 
It's roughly 75,000 yen which in today's exchange rate is ~ $760. Factor in the fact people will add markup, shipping, and possible duties where you live, $1k is not unrealistic.This is simple, simple math.

 

[CosmicHolyGhost]

I am pretty surprised that the list price alone is 760usd and all the people here are vouching to order like it was a free giveaway... pretty amazing...... really looking forward to some impressions and reviews appearing in Dec...

 

[FenderP]

  I am pretty surprised that the list price alone is 760usd and all the people here are vouching to order like it was a free giveaway... pretty amazing...... really looking forward to some impressions and reviews appearing in Dec...

 
I'm not *at least the price). I called it early in the thread. The 64GB F887 is 39,800 yen. The 32GB F885 is 26,800. So add more expensive memory (not like everyone is doing 128GB solid state players ...), premium build, etc., just about double the F887 is about right where it probably should be. The cheapest I could see it being was maybe $600.

 

[alpha10]

I think it will be around 900 dollars delivered from Japan, expensive yes.

I just asked http://www.pricejapan.com/ for a quote

It's roughly 75,000 yen which in today's exchange rate is ~ $760. Factor in the fact people will add markup, shipping, and possible duties where you live, $1k is not unrealistic.This is simple, simple math.

 

[starfly]

Still it's strange that a 128 GB has to be so expensive. Granted that it's a premium model with more than just 128gb storage, it also has a more powerful amp in it and a 24/192 DAC. But the memory itself is not expensive. At least when looking at SD cards, a 128GB card is not 2x as expensive as a 64GB card. It's more like 40-50% more expensive.
 
Would be nice if the cheaper models would also come in a 128GB version. Have been looking for years for something to replace my iPod with. Eventhough it's Rockboxed now, I'm sure it could sound a lot better as the built-in amp and dac aren't that special. And then I can use an external portable amp, but that kind of defeats the purpose, as it's just amplifying the same inferior analog signal. An amp can't magically increase the quality or add detail, that has to happen in the DAC stage. The only thing an AMP can do is distort the original signal to change the sound signature (such as with a tube amp or when using EQ settings such as bass boost) and add more power to the signal to drive larger headphones more easily.
 
And so far all the other so called high-end DAPs out there are either too expensive, too cumbersome, not user friendly enough or too ugly.

 

[FenderP]

  Still it's strange that a 128 GB has to be so expensive. Granted that it's a premium model with more than just 128gb storage, it also has a more powerful amp in it and a 24/192 DAC. But the memory itself is not expensive. At least when looking at SD cards, a 128GB card is not 2x as expensive as a 64GB card. It's more like 40-50% more expensive.
 
Would be nice if the cheaper models would also come in a 128GB version. Have been looking for years for something to replace my iPod with. Eventhough it's Rockboxed now, I'm sure it could sound a lot better as the built-in amp and dac aren't that special. And then I can use an external portable amp, but that kind of defeats the purpose, as it's just amplifying the same inferior analog signal. An amp can't magically increase the quality or add detail, that has to happen in the DAC stage. The only thing an AMP can do is distort the original signal to change the sound signature (such as with a tube amp or when using EQ settings such as bass boost) and add more power to the signal to drive larger headphones more easily.
 
And so far all the other so called high-end DAPs out there are either too expensive, too cumbersome, not user friendly enough or too ugly.

 
SD card != specialized memory chips for things like a Walkman. Things are not that linear with cost, either. Good example: 1TB SSDs just a year or so ago were $2k+. Now you can get ones that are about $600 (Samsung 840 Evo and Crucial M500 960GB).
 
There's probably a reason no one has really done this before - the density needed to put 128GB in something so small isn't cheap.
 
Given the price of this, I would assume the F88x series if it came in 128GB would be that $600 price I was talking about.

 

[starfly]

   
SD card != specialized memory chips for things like a Walkman. Things are not that linear with cost, either. Good example: 1TB SSDs just a year or so ago were $2k+. Now you can get ones that are about $600 (Samsung 840 Evo and Crucial M500 960GB).
 
There's probably a reason no one has really done this before - the density needed to put 128GB in something so small isn't cheap.
 
Given the price of this, I would assume the F88x series if it came in 128GB would be that $600 price I was talking about.

 
Your point about things not being so linear with cost is exactly my point though. Flash memory simply isn't that expensive. I think the main reason why we haven't seen 128 GB in smartphones and music players is simply because of a lack of demand. I mean, most people still listen to lossy audio and those take up much less storage space than lossless audio.
 
And I think your point about density doesn't really hold up that well. They can put 64GB of storage onto a microSD card, a thing the size of your fingernail. I really don't think density is the issue here.
 
Granted, I'm not an engineer so I don't know the exact physical limitations behind it. But why don't they just put two 64GB chips on it and have them work in parallel, put it in RAID 0 and it will appear as one big volume. It should technically all be possible with a degressive increase in cost (meaning, the extra storage would probably cost less than double the price of the initial storage).
 
Anyway, most of all I hope this will lead to more competition. The small high-end DAP manufacturers won't really grab the big players' attention, but if Sony is coming out with something like this, perhaps a Samsung or heck, even an Apple might decide that it's something to consider putting out there. Especially Apple should be able to market it as they're great at selling highly overpriced stuff 

 

[FenderP]

   
Your point about things not being so linear with cost is exactly my point though. Flash memory simply isn't that expensive. I think the main reason why we haven't seen 128 GB in smartphones and music players is simply because of a lack of demand. I mean, most people still listen to lossy audio and those take up much less storage space than lossless audio.
 
And I think your point about density doesn't really hold up that well. They can put 64GB of storage onto a microSD card, a thing the size of your fingernail. I really don't think density is the issue here.
 
Granted, I'm not an engineer so I don't know the exact physical limitations behind it. But why don't they just put two 64GB chips on it and have them work in parallel, put it in RAID 0 and it will appear as one big volume. It should technically all be possible with a degressive increase in cost (meaning, the extra storage would probably cost less than double the price of the initial storage).
 
Anyway, most of all I hope this will lead to more competition. The small high-end DAP manufacturers won't really grab the big players' attention, but if Sony is coming out with something like this, perhaps a Samsung or heck, even an Apple might decide that it's something to consider putting out there. Especially Apple should be able to market it as they're great at selling highly overpriced stuff 

 
Again, there's a reason that 1TB SSDs were nearly 4x+ that of a 512 to start with - or why the quest for even traditional storage density with platter-based HDDs come in. I remember when the jump was made from 20 to 40GB. The problem was packing density into a smaller, thinner space. Same with other jumps. Similar concept. Then we get into things like MLC, NAND, etc. AGAIN - 64GB SD != what you put in here. Similar in some ways, but in others, not really.
 
So before you say it doesn't hold up, you need to understand the engineering. Smaller and denser has always been expensive ... and if you're the first to do it, well, do the math.

 

[purk]

I own several of their "S-Master" amplifier models for awhile now and all have been quite impressive sounding.  Sound likes the ZX-1 will have a more powerful headphone phone output.  Personally, I'm fine with what is on the current lineup.  However, the ability to be able to drive higher to drive phones will be a welcomed addition.  Frankly, I would love to have the SD card, but I can easily live without with the onboard 128 GB of flash memory.  That alone should set Sony back around $100.  I hope the whole "digital output" is real.  I'm ready to ditch an extremely buggy DX50 so so bad.

 

[Xymordos]

OMG...I MUST GET THIS...
It's so beautiful it brings a tear to my eye :')

 

[Aevum]

WMport or normal usb ?