[audioxxx]

Double amping will always lower the SNR (signal to noise ratio) and class D amps aren't known for their high fidelity, and can introduce distortion and hiss.
For this reason double amping should be avoided, it's up to you.

I'm thinking Sony doesn't advertise line out because of marketing, it doesn't fit in with their line of amps.

 

[gerelmx1986]

Double amping will always lower the SNR (signal to noise ratio) and class D amps aren't known for their high fidelity, and can introduce distortion and hiss.
For this reason double amping should be avoided, it's up to you.

I'm thinking Sony doesn't advertise line out because of marketing, it doesn't fit in with their line of amps.

agree wiht the line of amps, esp if you see the new PHA-1A, ti lacks 3.5mm input...

 

[audioxxx]

agree wiht the line of amps, esp if you see the new PHA-1A, ti lacks 3.5mm input...

Not sure why they left it out, very strange not to have a line in on a portable amp of this nature.

 

[jmsaxon69]

Not sure why they left it out, very strange not to have a line in on a portable amp of this nature.

I think it really is a specialty product for the A10 series (digital only)

 

[audioxxx]

I think it really is a specialty product for the A10 series (digital only)

That's the other problem to use the digital out from the a10, one must use a clunky cable that had no direct connection. And one must order the cable from the other side of the world.
And to make matters worse offers very poor battery life.
I don't get it.

 

[audioxxx]

But don't get me wrong, I'm still using the a15 amped with the e12a and together they sound very nice indeed.
The a10 is a very nice DAP, that I use daily.

 

[jmsaxon69]

That's the other problem to use the digital out from the a10, one must use a clunky cable that had no direct connection. And one must order the cable from the other side of the world.
And to make matters worse offers very poor battery life.
I don't get it.

PHA-3 does (and I am sure the PHA-1A will) come with the cable to hookup the A17 etc...

 

[jmsaxon69]

Here it is:
 
Link to the product on Sony's website with some specs: http://www.sony-asia.com/product/pha-1a
 

Features

1. Enjoy powerful sound on the go in a sleek, pocket-sized amplifier
2. Compatible with High-Resolution Audio formats (192kHz/24bit)
3. Digital connection for Walkman®, Xperia®, iPhone/iPad/iPod®
4. Features high quality components for well-balanced, natural sound
5. Immerse in spacious, three-dimensional soundstage
6. Engineered for the best listening experience with MDR-1A & Walkman® A10

 

Sampling Frequency/Bit	PCM: Max. 192kHz/24bit
Impedance	8Ω-600Ω
Frequency Response	10-100kHz
Maximum Output	Approx. 148mW + 148mW (8Ω, 10% distortion) Approx. 80mW + 80mW (32Ω, 1% distortion) Approx. 16.4mW + 16.4mW (300Ω, 10% distortion)
Output(s)	Stereo mini jack (Only a 3-pole stereo mini plug is supported)
Input(s)	Computer/WALKMAN®/Xperia connecting port, iPhone/iPad/iPod® connecting port
Power Source / Battery Type	Built-in lithium-ion rechargeable battery
Battery Life	Approx. 6h
Battery Charging Time	Approx. 2h
Dimensions (W x H x D)	Approx. 62 x 18.5 x 109 mm
Weight (Without Cord)	Approx. 145g
Supplied Accessories	Digital cable for WALKMAN®, Digital cable for Xperia®, Micro-USB cable, Silicone belts and Protection sheet

 

[audioxxx]

Few, you get a cable, thanks for the correction.

But I don't know why they limited the battery life to 6hrs. That's not enough run time.

 

[jmsaxon69]

I'm just hoping that distortion figure is a typo

 

[audioxxx]

10% distortion, , it has to be a typo.

 

[ClieOS]

  The Sony amp in the A17 is a low power output class D amp (digital).  I can't see how double amping a digital amp at this low output level could make any real difference in sound quality!
 

 
Just want to point out that the 'D' in Class D doesn't stand for 'Digital'.
 

I'm just hoping that distortion figure is a typo

 
10% distortion is the number announced by Sony on CES. It has been over a month now so it isn't likely to be typo. If that true, that kind of power rating is pretty useless except for generating noise.

 

[castleofargh]

I read it as "don't plug a 8 ohm load into it"

 

[fish1050]

   
Just want to point out that the 'D' in Class D doesn't stand for 'Digital'.
 
 
10% distortion is the number announced by Sony on CES. It has been over a month now so it isn't likely to be typo. If that true, that kind of power rating is pretty useless except for generating noise.

You are correct D doesn't stand for digital but most electronic devices available today that use Class D amps are digital.  That is why I put (digital) in brackets to indicate the Sony amp is digital.

Double amping will always lower the SNR (signal to noise ratio) and class D amps aren't known for their high fidelity, and can introduce distortion and hiss.
For this reason double amping should be avoided, it's up to you.

I'm thinking Sony doesn't advertise line out because of marketing, it doesn't fit in with their line of amps.

I have listened to the A17 with both line out and headphone out.  With double amping I get zero hiss (dead quiet)even at high volume levels and no discernable difference in distortion double or single amped.. The only people that I know who have the A17 that have ever had an issue with hiss are using IEM's and no external amp. So hiss will be there for them with or without an external amp.
 
If you find hiss and distortion aren't and issue for you double amping then no harm no foul.
 
So to any other users out there who are double amping let me ask.  Do you find hissing or distortion an issue with double amping?
 
As for the marketing angle for Sony not advertising line out on their players.  If it doesn't fit in with their line of amps to take advantage of it and you don't advertise it as a feature then why even offer it.at all?  The only reason a profit conscious company like Sony would offer an unadvertised feature is if they could include it without adding to the DAP's manufacturing cost or it was an unintended feature. If that's the case then they probably didn't do much to optimize the line out feature in the first place which the line out specs being reported bear out.  It certainly doesn't offer near the benefits that line out does on other DAP's
 
The other reason I could see for not listing this feature is for warranty purposes.  If Sony feels that constantly plugging and unplugging into the LOD connector on the A17 could increase the failure rate on the connector they could argue the line out was an unintended feature of the player and therefore not covered under warranty.  You might think I am crazy but I have seen other electronics manufacturers use the unintended use argument for denying warranty claims.

 

[fish1050]

 
You are correct D doesn't stand for digital but most electronic devices available today that use Class D amps are digital.  That is why I put (digital) in brackets to indicate the Sony amp is digital.

I have listened to the A17 with both line out and headphone out.  With double amping I get zero hiss (dead quiet)even at high volume levels and no discernable difference in distortion double or single amped.. The only people that I know who have the A17 that have ever had an issue with hiss are using IEM's and no external amp. So hiss will be there for them with or without an external amp.
 
If you find hiss and distortion aren't and issue for you double amping then no harm no foul.
 
So to any other users out there who are double amping let me ask.  Do you find hissing or distortion an issue with double amping?
 
As for the marketing angle for Sony not advertising line out on their players.  If it doesn't fit in with their line of amps to take advantage of it and you don't advertise it as a feature then why even offer it.at all?  The only reason a profit conscious company like Sony would offer an unadvertised feature is if they could include it without adding to the DAP's manufacturing cost or it was an unintended feature. If that's the case then they probably didn't do much to optimize the line out feature in the first place which the line out specs being reported bear out.  It certainly doesn't offer near the benefits that line out does on other DAP's
 
The other reason I could see for not listing this feature is for warranty purposes.  If Sony feels that constantly plugging and unplugging into the LOD connector on the A17 could increase the failure rate on the connector they could argue the line out was an unintended feature of the player and therefore not covered under warranty.  You might think I am crazy but I have seen other electronics manufacturers use the unintended use argument for denying warranty claims.

An electrical engineering friend of mine who looked at my A17 thinks the wide metal connector on the LOD cable could make the player more susceptible to EMI interference.  Whereas headphone out connectors are shielded to avoid EMI interference.