[ailean]

Sony didn't make nor design the 4.4mm standard.

It's just the simple fact that the 4.4mm part is a niche audiophile product which currently has no other application so the manufacturers aren't jumping head over heals to mass produce them, unlike 2.5mm or 3.5mm or even XLR parts which are not limited to audiophile usage.

Seems right up Sonys mindset though, everyone else uses 3.5mm or 6.3mm oh and some non major people are starting to use 2.5mm so I know lets make something new 4.4mm.

I do suspect it'll never be a major standard, balanced is a niche within a niche, so chances of things like the low level 6.3mm adapters where the 3.5mm plug actually goes inside the 6.3mm plug space or the screw locking ones are very low. I don't think a lot of the other DAP makers will switch to 4.4mm from 2.5mm either as it's a lot bigger socket to make room for and few high end DAPs have any room to spare inside.

Shame as I kind of prefer the 4.4mm over 2.5mm, the smaller plugs just don't hold well in the sockets and I've found them getting pulled out a lot easier then standard 3.5mm ones. I do kind of wish they'd reused the 3.5mm remote plug idea for the extra pins but guess that would have confused people and might have lead to things going POP if plugged in the wrong thing.

 

[abitdeef]

Seems right up Sonys mindset though, everyone else uses 3.5mm or 6.3mm oh and some non major people are starting to use 2.5mm so I know lets make something new 4.4mm.

I do suspect it'll never be a major standard, balanced is a niche within a niche, so chances of things like the low level 6.3mm adapters where the 3.5mm plug actually goes inside the 6.3mm plug space or the screw locking ones are very low. I don't think a lot of the other DAP makers will switch to 4.4mm from 2.5mm either as it's a lot bigger socket to make room for and few high end DAPs have any room to spare inside.

Shame as I kind of prefer the 4.4mm over 2.5mm, the smaller plugs just don't hold well in the sockets and I've found them getting pulled out a lot easier then standard 3.5mm ones. I do kind of wish they'd reused the 3.5mm remote plug idea for the extra pins but guess that would have confused people and might have lead to things going POP if plugged in the wrong thing.

Hopefully it will take off because the 4.4 clicks in with authority! I mean the connection is solid! Feels like you stuck a tree trunk in the jack

 

[Partlys4int]

Ha ha true, my problem isn't the tips, but The nozzles and the design. Both iems that are comfy for me have short nozzles and tiny barrel shaped bodies and are super light. I tried a chesp klipsch and it was super comfy but sounded dull, maybe x3 ? Anyways I will try the monitor shape again shures, westones as I was able to wear them before as long as the casing was smooth. Idk but thankfully the SE out of 300 still sounds tits!

I need to go to a head fi meet, to try some of these iems out, I can tell within minutes if they are going to bug me or not. Maybe London and I could write it off as research lol

That's a description of the Klipsch x10, X11 and X12. The eartip is the bulkiest part of these iem's. The X20 look not much bigger either.

And yeah, the lower-end Klipsch sound relatively dull. It's only the higher priced models that don't have an unkempt bass and withdrawn highs. I have some Klipsch R6 as well, that I use for sleeping: they sound muffled but are excellent for falling asleep as they mask edgier sounds.

 

[abitdeef]

That's a description of the Klipsch x10, X11 and X12. The eartip is the bulkiest part of these iem's. The X20 look not much bigger either.

And yeah, the lower-end Klipsch sound relatively dull. It's only the higher priced models that don't have an unkempt bass and withdrawn highs. I have some Klipsch R6 as well, that I use for sleeping: they sound muffled but are excellent for falling asleep as they mask edgier sounds.

Just no balanced

 

[nanaholic]

Seems right up Sonys mindset though, everyone else uses 3.5mm or 6.3mm oh and some non major people are starting to use 2.5mm so I know lets make something new 4.4mm.

I do suspect it'll never be a major standard, balanced is a niche within a niche, so chances of things like the low level 6.3mm adapters where the 3.5mm plug actually goes inside the 6.3mm plug space or the screw locking ones are very low. I don't think a lot of the other DAP makers will switch to 4.4mm from 2.5mm either as it's a lot bigger socket to make room for and few high end DAPs have any room to spare inside.

It's really nothing of that sort either. The history of the 4.4mm is actually pretty well documented (in Japanese though), JEITA had been pushing with the idea of a new formal balance plug for years with all of its members - which I suspect was more of a rivalry with the Koreans, because AK/iRiver the Korean company popularised the hacked 2.5mm balance connection which actually has other non-audiophile usages. NDICS designed the parts and pitched it to JEITA. Sony also hopped onto the opportunity because they had new gears in the making (at one point Sony was thinking of sticking with their own dual 3.5mm for balance connection for the entire Signature Series because they already had that in their PHA3 amp and had dual 3.5mm balanced Kimber cables for the Z7 etc). It's much more of a nice coincidence and convenience which benefited everyone involved, rather than Sony having an ah-ha moment.

I actually think the 4.4mm is going to become mainstream, XLR is even bulkier and no more common than 4.4mm in most gears, while 2.5mm is really only a portable application that has found no footing in desktop usage. With 3.5mm SE getting phased out by smartphones I believe future audiophile devices will only be focusing on offering balance output connections only in which case a single jack/plug that is suitable for both portable and stationary application is going to be both good for the users as well as the manufacturers. You can clearly see this line of thinking not just from Sony but also from Sennheiser's new product line ups, Sennheiser had shunted 2.5mm all this time but now is fully onboard with 4.4mm even for their flagship fullsize headphones and desktop DAC/amp speaks volumes about where they are betting their money, and with more and more DAP makers already on board (Acoustic Research, iBasso DX200, HiFiman etc), I think AK should be the one to give up on using 2.5mm because the tide is clearly moving away from them.

 

[abitdeef]

Just no balanced

It would be cool to just adopt the balanced architecture in daps instead of having 2 separate inputs, of course there would have to be many more balanced headphone options. I mean why not because it's more powerful and quieter in most cases.

 

[nanaholic]

Anyway getting back onto topic. I'm just a bit bummed by the announcement of the MDR-1AM2 since I just hunted down a nice used pair of MDR-1A limited edition and also bought the new 1A balance cable for it a couple of weeks ago.

I really loved the MDR-1A LE and WM1Z pairing when I tried it beginning of last year but never got around to buying them (weather was getting hot so there's no point in getting portable around ear headphones) and when I finally thought of buying them they fell out of production and circulation. I really wanted the LE because it has a different earpad to the standard 1A and thus the sound signature is slightly different. The 1A LE pairs very nicely with the ZX300 on balance too and I suspect the 1AM2 will have the same sort of synergy in pairing. Hopefully the improvement is not so drastic that I have to buy them too but I think anyone looking at affordable around ears portables that is balance ready to go with their ZX300 (surprisingly little choices here when I was actually looking for them - I liked the Audio Technica MSR-7 which was around the same price but it is not balance capable) then they should keep their eyes on the 1AM2.

 

[ailean]

It's really nothing of that sort either. The history of the 4.4mm is actually pretty well documented (in Japanese though), JEITA had been pushing with the idea of a new formal balance plug for years with all of its members - which I suspect was more of a rivalry with the Koreans, because AK/iRiver the Korean company popularised the hacked 2.5mm balance connection which actually has other non-audiophile usages. NDICS designed the parts and pitched it to JEITA. Sony also hopped onto the opportunity because they had new gears in the making (at one point Sony was thinking of sticking with their own dual 3.5mm for balance connection for the entire Signature Series because they already had that in their PHA3 amp and had dual 3.5mm balanced Kimber cables for the Z7 etc). It's much more of a nice coincidence and convenience which benefited everyone involved, rather than Sony having an ah-ha moment.

I actually think the 4.4mm is going to become mainstream, XLR is even bulkier and no more common than 4.4mm in most gears, while 2.5mm is really only a portable application that has found no footing in desktop usage. With 3.5mm SE getting phased out by smartphones I believe future audiophile devices will only be focusing on offering balance output connections only in which case a single jack/plug that is suitable for both portable and stationary application is going to be both good for the users as well as the manufacturers. You can clearly see this line of thinking not just from Sony but also from Sennheiser's new product line ups, Sennheiser had shunted 2.5mm all this time but now is fully onboard with 4.4mm even for their flagship fullsize headphones and desktop DAC/amp speaks volumes about where they are betting their money, and with more and more DAP makers already on board (Acoustic Research, iBasso DX200, HiFiman etc), I think AK should be the one to give up on using 2.5mm because the tide is clearly moving away from them.

Desktop certainly makes sence but then I only use headphones with portable gear these days hence I don't think anything I own/use has native 6.3mm anymore.

For portable gear I can see it being an issue (hence 3.5mm exists), maybe if they moved to having a single 4.4mm balanced socket and ditched the 3.5mm SE one in favour of an included low profile 4.4mm->3.5mm SE adapter that might make up the room. The size/battery life of the ZX300 comes from having relatively little components on the inside compared to other DAPs so was easy for them.

Most folks are probably going to go wireless in future so generally 'headphone' sockets are a dying breed alas.

And yeah XLR was a silly way to go but I guess easy to get the bits and make at home.

 

[abitdeef]

I will be doing that shortly, but Hawaii bad boy will Shirley do it before me. I'm just curious, I only heard n3 and that was pretty decent. Hopefully I can test both balanced, so I need to sort that out first. The Sony balanced really spread things out, but now I'm back to SE output and still sounds amazing. So far one person said the zx300 balanced sounded better and one person on the xba n3 thread said the cayin balanced sounded better so yeah. All subjective and personal tastes anyways, but I will try to describe what I hear.

Plus I dropped my ak70 in the toilet, yes I was listening when I was peeing, so I have no dap with a LO or tidal, which I find kind of cool even though I have more music cds than zI need. I currently have the ak70 in a bag of rice to try to dry it out.

let me add that I don't think the n5ii is going to equal the Sony. To me the Sony sounds like a flagship dac with immense detail, and prat and realistic attack and decay on all frequencies. To get better than the zx300 I think you would have to spend at least 3 grand. Now I haven't heard the 1A but I believe the zx300 is very close to that. Its much better than my former best dap I've listens to the opus #1 especially on balanced.

 

[nanaholic]

The size/battery life of the ZX300 comes from having relatively little components on the inside compared to other DAPs so was easy for them.

That’s actually not true - the internals of the ZX300 is actually quite packed, due mainly to those huge FT caps for the output section as well as having large MOSFET for the power conditioning. The battery life of Walkmans is mainly due to S-Master implementation being Class D design so is highly efficient in energy conversion.

However that doesn’t mean having 4.4mm can’t go smaller, Hifiman’s new upcoming dap has both 3.5mm and 4.4mm jack and is tiny, looks to be AK70 size in fact which is almost unnecessarily small.

 

[Partlys4int]

It's really nothing of that sort either. The history of the 4.4mm is actually pretty well documented (in Japanese though), JEITA had been pushing with the idea of a new formal balance plug for years with all of its members - which I suspect was more of a rivalry with the Koreans, because AK/iRiver the Korean company popularised the hacked 2.5mm balance connection which actually has other non-audiophile usages. NDICS designed the parts and pitched it to JEITA. Sony also hopped onto the opportunity because they had new gears in the making (at one point Sony was thinking of sticking with their own dual 3.5mm for balance connection for the entire Signature Series because they already had that in their PHA3 amp and had dual 3.5mm balanced Kimber cables for the Z7 etc). It's much more of a nice coincidence and convenience which benefited everyone involved, rather than Sony having an ah-ha moment.

I actually think the 4.4mm is going to become mainstream, XLR is even bulkier and no more common than 4.4mm in most gears, while 2.5mm is really only a portable application that has found no footing in desktop usage. With 3.5mm SE getting phased out by smartphones I believe future audiophile devices will only be focusing on offering balance output connections only in which case a single jack/plug that is suitable for both portable and stationary application is going to be both good for the users as well as the manufacturers. You can clearly see this line of thinking not just from Sony but also from Sennheiser's new product line ups, Sennheiser had shunted 2.5mm all this time but now is fully onboard with 4.4mm even for their flagship fullsize headphones and desktop DAC/amp speaks volumes about where they are betting their money, and with more and more DAP makers already on board (Acoustic Research, iBasso DX200, HiFiman etc), I think AK should be the one to give up on using 2.5mm because the tide is clearly moving away from them.

Nice piece of information!
But I do think it will take a while before all audiophile devices will be balanced only. Most manufacturers will- I believe- avoid complaining customers who still have some beloved SE-headphones lying around and will therefore still cater a long time to these SE-headphones. Yes, they could re-terminate them or buy balanced cables if it's possible, but that's something only Apple gets away with.
3,5mm has such a strong recognition and widespreaded usage, it'll take a while to phase out. IF it gets phased out, because history shows that the better technology doesn't always win out.

 

[Partlys4int]

Just no balanced

We should put some pressure on Klipsch

 

[abitdeef]

We should put some pressure on Klipsch

Maybe start out with some email requests, then a car bomb or two? The Germans take some serious persuasion, I'm German I know Even though an American company it's a German name.

Of course I'm joking about bombs, hmmm

 

[DONTGIVEUP]

1A limited edition?
Never heard of that.
What is special about it? If I may ask.

Anyway getting back onto topic. I'm just a bit bummed by the announcement of the MDR-1AM2 since I just hunted down a nice used pair of MDR-1A limited edition and also bought the new 1A balance cable for it a couple of weeks ago.

I really loved the MDR-1A LE and WM1Z pairing when I tried it beginning of last year but never got around to buying them (weather was getting hot so there's no point in getting portable around ear headphones) and when I finally thought of buying them they fell out of production and circulation. I really wanted the LE because it has a different earpad to the standard 1A and thus the sound signature is slightly different. The 1A LE pairs very nicely with the ZX300 on balance too and I suspect the 1AM2 will have the same sort of synergy in pairing. Hopefully the improvement is not so drastic that I have to buy them too but I think anyone looking at affordable around ears portables that is balance ready to go with their ZX300 (surprisingly little choices here when I was actually looking for them - I liked the Audio Technica MSR-7 which was around the same price but it is not balance capable) then they should keep their eyes on the 1AM2.

 

[ceiji]

Sorry if its been answered before. Does ZX300 drive an LCD-2 directly without an amp? I am looking for a DAP that has enough power to drive LCD2 directly. Appreciate any help.