[osiris1]

Why would anyone want to revisit a digital CD player? Analogue Vinyl I can partly understand.

because many people have CDs and continue to buy CDs.
high end CD players still sell plenty. i want a CD Walkman to replace the broken one I had... maybe they can color it gold too.

 

[psikey]

But wasn't your 1ZM2 the EU capped version? Have you heard an uncapped 1ZM2?

Yes, not sure the point though. Volume still fine for most IEM's ?

 

[Damz87]

Yes, not sure the point though. Volume still fine for most IEM's ?

Oh is it? I was under the impression that the EU volume capped units can’t really drive most IEM’s properly, and therefore wouldn’t be a proper representation of how it sounds. Maybe the cap isn’t as severe as it was on older models.

 

[564070]

Oh is it? I was under the impression that the EU volume capped units can’t really drive most IEM’s properly, and therefore wouldn’t be a proper representation of how it sounds. Maybe the cap isn’t as severe as it was on older models.

I can only speak for my Sennheiser IE300 (16 Ohms): Loud enough
A reviewer "Keko" on Amazon.de tested several other IEM and comes to the same conclusion.
https://www.amazon.de/dp/B09S13H5T8/
"Campfire Audio Andromeda, Cascade, Moondrop Blessing 2, Sennheiser IE 900, Denon AH-D9200, Audio Technica ATH-AD2000X, Bowers & Wilkins P7 & Koss Porta Pro."

 

[psikey]

Oh is it? I was under the impression that the EU volume capped units can’t really drive most IEM’s properly, and therefore wouldn’t be a proper representation of how it sounds. Maybe the cap isn’t as severe as it was on older models.

Its headphones you will have issues with and some IEM's.

The M9's I have are more demanding than the other 3 I have, and that would probably push the EU capped one (no high gain on EU too) to its limits.

When I had the UK/EU ZM2 I just had SE846, FD7 & K10U and it would play all those but need around 85 or above to be loud enough. (120 max volume)

As mentioned before, my 8 Ohm SE846's needed about 85 on UK/EU version but only 65 on Japanese import and only 45 if high gain used too.

For me, it was not being prepared to pay higher for a volume crippled device on principle, and resale of uncapped one better. I don't use Headphones myself, just IEM's.

 

[Doug2507]

And that volume cap doesn't apply to gain so you should still have the same driving power, just not the headroom on volume. eg, a capped and a non capped when volume matched should sound exactly the same.

 

[denis1976]

And that volume cap doesn't apply to gain so you should still have the same driving power, just not the headroom on volume. eg, a capped and a non capped when volume matched should sound exactly the same.

If this is true , why when you turn on the AVLS the volume stops at 75 on a capped model and on 68 on an uncapped? Is obvious that the diference is not only in the lack of high gain ,even in normal gain the uncapped model has more power and volume gain

 

[Damz87]

And that volume cap doesn't apply to gain so you should still have the same driving power, just not the headroom on volume. eg, a capped and a non capped when volume matched should sound exactly the same.

Thanks Doug, I didn’t know that. That’s good to know!

 

[Damz87]

If this is true , why when you turn on the vlc the volume stops at 75 on a capped model and on 68 on an uncapped? Is obvious that the diference is not only in the lack of high gain ,even in normal gain the uncapped model has more power and volume gain

Yeah, I always thought that the actual output power was capped. I remember seeing on an EU spec sheet that WM1A/Z was rated below 10mW per channel. Hence my assumption that a volume matched capped DAP would not sound the same as an uncapped version.

 

[Doug2507]

Oh really? Ok, my bad. Makes no sense to gimp the power delivery when they can hard code a software volume cap into the FW. (edit, from a quick google looks like exactly what they did with previous gen)

@Whitigir

 

[MarkParity]

Oh is it? I was under the impression that the EU volume capped units can’t really drive most IEM’s properly, and therefore wouldn’t be a proper representation of how it sounds. Maybe the cap isn’t as severe as it was on older models.

Page one of this thread really needs an FAQ on what sensitively of transducer (headphone or IEM) will be loud enough IMHO.

My input on this, I have a "crippled" "valueless" EU version of the 1am2 and with the Campfire Atlas 105 dB SPL/mW Sensitivity and 19 Ohms @ 1kHz Impedance it goes bonkers loud out of the 4.4mm output. Normal listening volume is 70-75 depending on file loudness.

I was about to sell the Atlas before I got the Sony player as I found it tough to use for ergonomic reasons and very bright in that sibilance region, very fatiguing, with my previous DAPs, now the two have not been parted and the Atlas is in my ears for a least 10h per day.

This is a truly epic pairing for me and I've tried a lot.

 

[Damz87]

Oh really? Ok, my bad. Makes no sense to gimp the power delivery when they can hard code a software volume cap into the FW.

@Whitigir

Oh I could be completely wrong lol so hopefully @Whitigir can chime in. Now that I think about it, the fact that the older non-android versions could be uncapped via software makes me think it would have to be the same output power on both…

 

[psikey]

Oh really? Ok, my bad. Makes no sense to gimp the power delivery when they can hard code a software volume cap into the FW. (edit, from a quick google looks like exactly what they did with previous gen)

@Whitigir

I don't know what/how they did it, but in addition to high-gain mode being removed a volume match on my SE846 was 85 EU vs 65 Japanese so reducing max volume possible with the 120 steps.

I could turn EU one to 120 even with my SE846's and not fear blowing my ears out. Wouldn't attempt doing same with my Japanese one! Let alone with high-gain.

 

[Doug2507]

Oh I could be completely wrong lol so hopefully @Whitigir can chime in. Now that I think about it, the fact that the older non-android versions could be uncapped via software makes me think it would have to be the same output power on both…

Yeah, i'm no techie but i'm pretty sure power is a non variable in this regard (ignoring transducer impedance / swings) and any cap would be done through volume. If it was a hardware change, then they'd need another production line for the different gubbins on the boards.

Although having said that, N8ii P+ is digital switching or power delivery.

Interested in the answer to this one as well now!

 

[psikey]

Yeah, i'm no techie but i'm pretty sure power is a non variable in this regard (ignoring transducer impedance / swings) and any cap would be done through volume. If it was a hardware change, then they'd need another production line for the different gubbins on the boards.

It's just like they set the whole volume step range 20 steps lower on the EU version (and of course removed high-gain option).