[Whitigir]

Oh really? Ok, my bad. Makes no sense to gimp the power delivery when they can hard code a software volume cap into the FW. (edit, from a quick google looks like exactly what they did with previous gen)

@Whitigir

So, basically these Walkman has High-Gain mode. That is physically raising up the amplification voltages from the amp out itself. This is controlled by firmware level.

Apparently, the volume cap is in the same firmware control policy, that when your unit is volumes capped with this policy in place, you can not enable higher voltage. In the mean while, volume Cap is similar to AVLS (Auto Volume Limiter System). It will not go beyond a certain threshold when set.

I suspect that with Walkman digitally attenuated, and direct digital amplifications, there is some degradation in theory. But I could be wrong. Didn’t the OG 1A/Z received a modified firmware that gives even higher Gain level ?

 

[Doug2507]

It's just like they set the whole volume step range 20 steps lower on the EU version (and of course removed high-gain option).

Ooh, didn't realise they gimped high gain as well! Ok, can see that being a deal breaker, especially for driving HP's.

 

[Doug2507]

So, basically these Walkman has High-Gain mode. That is physically raising up the amplification voltages from the amp out itself. This is controlled by firmware level.

Apparently, the volume cap is in the same firmware control policy, that when your unit is volumes capped with this policy in place, you can not enable higher voltage. In the mean while, volume Cap is similar to AVLS (Auto Volume Limiter System). It will not go beyond a certain threshold when set.

I suspect that with Walkman digitally attenuated, and direct digital amplifications, there is some degradation in theory. But I could be wrong. Didn’t the OG 1A/Z received a modified firmware that gives even higher Gain level ?

So EU is capped for both gain AND volume?

 

[MarkParity]

I don't know what/how they did it, but in addition to high-gain mode being removed a volume match on my SE846 was 85 EU vs 65 Japanese so reducing max volume possible with the 120 steps.

I could turn EU one to 120 even with my SE846's and not fear blowing my ears out. Wouldn't attempt doing same with my Japanese one! Let alone with high-gain.

Is that from the SE output or Balanced, I have the SE846 and have never tried it with the Sony DAP but I do find that very difficult to believe, I guess a lot depends on the type of music you are listening too though.

SE846 is rated at 135.54 dB/V SPL by the voltage and 115.95 dB/mW SPL by the power at 11 ohms.

Quoted from here: https://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/user-report.php?id=1860#gsc.tab=0

 

[Whitigir]

Yeah, i'm no techie but i'm pretty sure power is a non variable in this regard (ignoring transducer impedance / swings) and any cap would be done through volume. If it was a hardware change, then they'd need another production line for the different gubbins on the boards.

Although having said that, N8ii P+ is digital switching or power delivery.

Interested in the answer to this one as well now!

The N8ii is different , because they don’t use direct digital Amplifications like Walkman. The voltage rails is directly modified for the Opamp input stages where as the gain is the loudness factors that is modified in the output stages. In order to modify any of these implementations, there need to be hardware level changes, such is a resistor and capacitor and possibly newer transistor as well.

Walkman is very different, it generate direct pulses width modulated signals. These pulses are based on algorithms that is fed with a processors that consume voltages to scale the amplitudes. At least that is the technical theory behind it. At what voltage range is the S-Master in Walkman set up for ? And it would be controlled VIA firmware as well. So, the higher the amplitudes is the higher the dynamic range and the louder the output , because this will be directly scaling With the Class D amplifications out. In a simple words, generate higher amplitude pulses is the same as having higher gain in the input stages buffer from any typical amplifier , with the exceptions that the typical amplifier will only be scaling the loudness, where as S-Master will also scale up the dynamic range as well…..however, higher floor noises and distortions may present.

Therefore, in theory, by limiting this pulses amplitude, it is also limiting the dynamic range which again directly related to the output loudness….which is similar but yet very different than AVLS. I suspect that AVLS will still be an option in capped Walkman. Because AVLS is just capping the volume out to the max of 70 or 80 out of 120, where as Volume Capped Walkman will still offer 120/120 volume control, but limited Digital amplitudes, ***and we have confirmations

I don't know what/how they did it, but in addition to high-gain mode being removed a volume match on my SE846 was 85 EU vs 65 Japanese so reducing max volume possible with the 120 steps.

I could turn EU one to 120 even with my SE846's and not fear blowing my ears out. Wouldn't attempt doing same with my Japanese one! Let alone with high-gain.

 

[Doug2507]

The N8ii is different , because they don’t use direct digital Amplifications like Walkman. The voltage rails is directly modified for the Opamp input stages where as the gain is the loudness factors that is modified in the output stages. In order to modify any of these implementations, there need to be hardware level changes, such is a resistor and capacitor and possibly newer transistor as well.

Walkman is very different, it generate direct pulses width modulated signals. These pulses are based on algorithms that is fed with a processors that consume voltages to scale the amplitudes. At least that is the technical theory behind it. At what voltage range is the S-Master in Walkman set up for ? And it would be controlled VIA firmware as well. So, the higher the amplitudes is the higher the dynamic range and the louder the output , because this will be directly scaling With the Class D amplifications out. In a simple words, generate higher amplitude pulses is the same as having higher gain in the input stages buffer from any typical amplifier , with the exceptions that the typical amplifier will only be scaling the loudness, where as S-Master will also scale up the dynamic range as well…..however, higher floor noises and distortions may present.

Therefore, in theory, by limiting this pulses amplitude, it is also limiting the dynamic range which again directly related to the output loudness….which is similar but yet very different than AVLS. I suspect that AVLS will still be an option in capped Walkman. Because AVLS is just capping the volume out to the max of 70 or 80 out of 120, where as Volume Capped Walkman will still offer 120/120 volume control, but limited Digital amplitudes, ***and we have confirmations

Great reply, thanks Vince!

 

[Whitigir]

The N8ii is different , because they don’t use direct digital Amplifications like Walkman. The voltage rails is directly modified for the Opamp input stages where as the gain is the loudness factors that is modified in the output stages. In order to modify any of these implementations, there need to be hardware level changes, such is a resistor and capacitor and possibly newer transistor as well.

Walkman is very different, it generate direct pulses width modulated signals. These pulses are based on algorithms that is fed with a processors that consume voltages to scale the amplitudes. At least that is the technical theory behind it. At what voltage range is the S-Master in Walkman set up for ? And it would be controlled VIA firmware as well. So, the higher the amplitudes is the higher the dynamic range and the louder the output , because this will be directly scaling With the Class D amplifications out. In a simple words, generate higher amplitude pulses is the same as having higher gain in the input stages buffer from any typical amplifier , with the exceptions that the typical amplifier will only be scaling the loudness, where as S-Master will also scale up the dynamic range as well…..however, higher floor noises and distortions may present.

Therefore, in theory, by limiting this pulses amplitude, it is also limiting the dynamic range which again directly related to the output loudness….which is similar but yet very different than AVLS. I suspect that AVLS will still be an option in capped Walkman. Because AVLS is just capping the volume out to the max of 70 or 80 out of 120, where as Volume Capped Walkman will still offer 120/120 volume control, but limited Digital amplitudes, ***and we have confirmations

Here is a simpler way to look at it. This square waves is the digital pulses that S-Master generated. Which is amplified by class D output (green) , so it is an amplified Square Waves again. Not analog signals yet. This amplified pulses will need to pass through the Low Pass Filter to become analog signals

So, by limiting the amplitudes of the Red pulses, the amplified factor of the Green pulses will be directly effected (FE, 2x3 or 1x3, if you take that the class D is always a factor of 3). However, the Red pulses will determine the dynamic range, floor noises, distortions ….where as the green one is a determinations on the total loudness.

High gain is an option to use higher voltage to feed the Green pulses and make it bigger, louder. Volume control steps is controlled from here as well, so whenever you reach beyond 85%, you may start hearing the clicks sound due to the ladder of voltage being fed toward this stage . This has nothing to do with the Red one being capped, so you will still be getting 120 volume ladders but with less dynamic range, less loudness….a direct sound degradation

 

[MarkParity]

OK no more input from me regarding the volume of the capped EU version. I will just continue to "enjoy the music"

 

[Whitigir]

Keep in mind that I have no way to confirm whether the 120 volume ladder adjustment is a factor to decide that Sony did really cap the Digital pulses. For all I know, Sony could have allowing the 120 ladder as well, which scales to the max of the uncapped Walkman by 80 for example (12:8 ratios ? Or whatever). When you remove the volume cap, then 120 will equal across all products. (1:1)

I have never dissected Walkman Original enough to verify, perhaps @MrWalkman want to chime in.

The above posts are just my logical thinking and assumptions given that modified firmwares on the OG did allow much higher gain , together with the way how capped units are behaving.

I have a hard time believing that Sony engineers would want to cap the digital domains. There is a possibility that modified firmware on OG did allow higher digital pulses, which Sony never intended it to. That means the Capped Walkman do have the same factors as Uncapped but with volume being a much lower in scaling in comparison. That results in no direct sound degradations.

 

[denis1976]

Oh I could be completely wrong lol so hopefully @Whitigir can chime in. Now that I think about it, the fact that the older non-android versions could be uncapped via software makes me think it would have to be the same output power on both…

I had the capped 1a and i am sure that the uncapped has more power even in normal gain, the capped version has 4mw more or less

 

[psikey]

Is that from the SE output or Balanced, I have the SE846 and have never tried it with the Sony DAP but I do find that very difficult to believe, I guess a lot depends on the type of music you are listening too though.

SE846 is rated at 135.54 dB/V SPL by the voltage and 115.95 dB/mW SPL by the power at 11 ohms.

Quoted from here: https://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/user-report.php?id=1860#gsc.tab=0

Balanced. It could be I listen loud compared to others, but still the comparison was 20 volume steps lower on Japanese import (and 40 steps lower if using High-gain on import).

That's a lot more headroom for volume for harder to drive kit.

 

[namawee]

https://www.audio-technica.com/en-eu/at-sb2022

intresting

 

[psikey]

Looking at this early info on the upcoming new A & ZX class, does it mean the CPU is much improved over whats in our 1AM2/1ZM2 ?

Moving onto the NW-ZX707, we have only the Geekbench information for now, 8 core, with 4 cores at 2.0 Ghz, and 4 cores at 1.8 Ghz. Similar appearance in the benchmarks like the A300, early March, then May, June, late July and finally late October. The results can be found here. The scores are significantly better than the A300, with almost 2x the score in single-core and 2.5x in multi-core. My guess is the SoC being used in the ZX-series could be the Qualcomm SDA660, mostly because it is an 8 core SoC, with 4 cores up to 2.2 Ghz and 4 cores up to 1.8 Ghz. If this is the case, the GPU is slightly slower than the 702 in the A300 but the SoC is faster, due to the custom Qualcomm Kryo cores. There is a chance Sony might use the QCS8250 and just keep the core frequencies lower to save on battery. Once we get a gfxbench score, we will now for certain.​

​

Like the looks

​

Back like the 1AM2 too

Probably let down with low battery life again.

 

[Kiats]

Whichever makes you happy. It's like watches...there are people who pay the price of several houses for something that can't even keep time accurately... and scoff at Casios that never lose any seconds throughout the day~

Haha! Well put @justanut ! I have both the M2s and enjoy both equally for their different qualities.

 

[Whitigir]

Looking at this early info on the upcoming new A & ZX class, does it mean the CPU is much improved over whats in our 1AM2/1ZM2 ?

Moving onto the NW-ZX707, we have only the Geekbench information for now, 8 core, with 4 cores at 2.0 Ghz, and 4 cores at 1.8 Ghz. Similar appearance in the benchmarks like the A300, early March, then May, June, late July and finally late October. The results can be found here. The scores are significantly better than the A300, with almost 2x the score in single-core and 2.5x in multi-core. My guess is the SoC being used in the ZX-series could be the Qualcomm SDA660, mostly because it is an 8 core SoC, with 4 cores up to 2.2 Ghz and 4 cores up to 1.8 Ghz. If this is the case, the GPU is slightly slower than the 702 in the A300 but the SoC is faster, due to the custom Qualcomm Kryo cores. There is a chance Sony might use the QCS8250 and just keep the core frequencies lower to save on battery. Once we get a gfxbench score, we will now for certain.​

​

Like the looks

​

Back like the 1AM2 too

Probably let down with low battery life again.

Is that a Z version ? Isn’t the M2 CPU from the ZX507 gen ?