[Witcher]

I think all you're doing here is increasing the volume - everything is maxxed-out, or very close to it.

I've played with the sound and have not found anything 100% to my likeing. My old A15 I used the "Unique" setting and found that very good, but the A35 doesn't have that and when I've tried to replicate it using a customer setting it doesn't sound quite the same. I've taken to using the ClearAudio+ setting, though it takes some getting used to. I need to have another play with the settings though.

I thought that too. But when I tried to normalize the volumes, there was clearly a difference (0 eq louder volume, vs EQ). There is increased instrument separation and a wider soundstage from what I can hear. I can't stand the Clearaudio+ setting. it's OTT. lol!

 

[castleofargh]

Hey guys, after playing around with the EQ, I managed to find a setting which seems to open up the soundstage and remove the veil on the whole sound. except... it kinda ends up with me maximizing everything. Does this make sense?

What sort of EQ do you guys use?

as said above, it's psycho acoustic trickery number one. the best most powerful one. louder does feel better in almost every way(up to a point where it's just too loud). and to make matters worst, our brain constantly tries to adapt to new sounds. so once you've gone up, going down doesn't feel like going back to normal, it feels like removing stuff. with EQ you can see how easy it is to fool ourselves by testing the bass. you listen to something, boost the bass, then go back to the previous setting. and at least for a moment, you feel like there is less bass than before on the same setting. so intuitively if you just go around moving the slider up and down, you will most likely end up boosting stuff pretty much everywhere. it's wrong, but perfectly normal, your brain does tell you it's better than way.

as a very crude tip for EQ beginner, I'd say to always try to lower the settings, then you try the result against no EQ. and if the EQ still sounds better or about as good despite being handicapped by the louder is better effect, then you probably really like that EQ setting better.
also leave things alone and see how it feels in the long run. when you first take the DAP in the morning, what is your very first impression about the signature? based on that impression you can try incremental changes and see where that leads you.

 

[fish1050]

I have bought numerous SanDisk micro SD cards from amazon.com (not from amazon sellers) and have had no problems.

It depends on the capacity as most of the fakes are 128/200/256 GB capacities. I have never bought higher than 64 GB from amazon.ca which is in my A17 right now. But once I upgrade to my next DAP I will need to look at least 128 GB which is the highest capacity I can get from Costco. I can get a 200 GB card locally for about $120.00. My buddy who just bought an A35 ordered a 200 GB card from amazon.ca and it was a fake. It could only recognize 64 GB of memory both in the A35 and from his card reader. Shipped it back to amazon.ca and is waiting for a refund from amazon. Once he gets it he will buy it locally and pay a bit more but at least if he gets bitten again he can return it to the store.

It sucks that sandisk.com won't ship microsd cards to Canada even though they have a country drop down at checkout and an option to choose a state/province. But the United States is the only country available. Out of curiousity I also tried ordering an SSD drive, a USB flash drive and Clip+ and none would ship to Canada. The fact that Sandisk is offering a country drop down and a state/province dropdown hopefully means that will ship to Canada at some point and perhaps other countries.

 

[fish1050]

as said above, it's psycho acoustic trickery number one. the best most powerful one. louder does feel better in almost every way(up to a point where it's just too loud). and to make matters worst, our brain constantly tries to adapt to new sounds. so once you've gone up, going down doesn't feel like going back to normal, it feels like removing stuff. with EQ you can see how easy it is to fool ourselves by testing the bass. you listen to something, boost the bass, then go back to the previous setting. and at least for a moment, you feel like there is less bass than before on the same setting. so intuitively if you just go around moving the slider up and down, you will most likely end up boosting stuff pretty much everywhere. it's wrong, but perfectly normal, your brain does tell you it's better than way.

as a very crude tip for EQ beginner, I'd say to always try to lower the settings, then you try the result against no EQ. and if the EQ still sounds better or about as good despite being handicapped by the louder is better effect, then you probably really like that EQ setting better.
also leave things alone and see how it feels in the long run. when you first take the DAP in the morning, what is your very first impression about the signature? based on that impression you can try incremental changes and see where that leads you.

Selling audio we use to tell customers that it can take a couple of weeks to get use to how gear sounds especially when new. So instead of constantly making tweaks and adjustments to settings to change the sound pick the settings that sound best to you and then live with it for awhile. Give your ears and your brain a chance to get use to it. You will never get it perfect so at some point you need to stop tinkering and just appreciate what you are hearing.

 

[castleofargh]

Selling audio we use to tell customers that it can take a couple of weeks to get use to how gear sounds especially when new. So instead of constantly making tweaks and adjustments to settings to change the sound pick the settings that sound best to you and then live with it for awhile. Give your ears and your brain a chance to get use to it. You will never get it perfect so at some point you need to stop tinkering and just appreciate what you are hearing.

of course, new toy effect, brain burn in, please wait until it's to late to bring it back. all good reasons to tell people to get used to the new sound, if only to have time to get rid of the old sound we got used to with our previous gear.
I went on with how to use EQ, and didn't consider that it might be a novelty issue.

 

[fish1050]

of course, new toy effect, brain burn in, please wait until it's to late to bring it back. all good reasons to tell people to get used to the new sound, if only to have time to get rid of the old sound we got used to with our previous gear.
I went on with how to use EQ, and didn't consider that it might be a novelty issue.

Be smart about it of course, if you have 14 days to return it then give yourself a couple of days to tweak to find the sound you like best. listen as long as you can and give yourself the time to get use to what you are hearing. When the deadline is up If you aren't happy or you think you can do better then return it and try something else. I am an audio purist and I never use eq or sound enhancements so if it doesn't sound good flat then I move on.

 

[Dino2000]

@fish1050 - I have always bought the SanDisk micro SD cards one size under the max, for cost per gig purposes. So I have a few 64GB, and quite a few 128GB and 200GB cards.

The conventional wisdom on the forums I've been on, when counterfeits exist buy from amazon.com (not amazon sellers). So far that has worked out for me. This probably wouldn't make much sense if I didn't live in the US, though. Kind of disappointing that amazon.ca doesn't have that reputation. Maybe they use different suppliers, I don't know.

 

[fish1050]

@fish1050 - I have always bought the SanDisk micro SD cards one size under the max, for cost per gig purposes. So I have a few 64GB, and quite a few 128GB and 200GB cards.

The conventional wisdom on the forums I've been on, when counterfeits exist buy from amazon.com (not amazon sellers). So far that has worked out for me. This probably wouldn't make much sense if I didn't live in the US, though. Kind of disappointing that amazon.ca doesn't have that reputation. Maybe they use different suppliers, I don't know.

The size you buy depends on your capacity needs as well. I currently have a Sony A17 with 64 GB of memory and a 64 GB card. If I buy the A45 for example with 16GB onboard then a 128 GB card should do me fine for quite awhile. But if I choose the Cayin N3 or maybe the Fiio X3-III when it comes out which don't have onboard memory then I would need to spring for a 200 GB card to cover my current and future needs.

As for amazon.ca vs amazon.com the selection and choices of products and certainly the vendors is quite different and in amazon.ca's case much smaller. Canada is a significantly smaller market (about 1/10th the size) than the US and you are often getting items from an amazon vendor vs amazon itself. Amazon.com can afford to stock alot more product in their warehouses than amazon.ca can. The bogus microsd card my buddy got was received from an amazon.ca vendor but the order was fulfilled by amazon.ca.

The fakes are definitely most prominent in the 200 GB and 256 GB capacities. Part of the reason I am leaning towards the A45 is the fact I can get by with just a 128 GB card. The initial cost of the A45 will likely be higher but once you add the microsd card cost the price difference between the different capacity cards this will reduce the overall price difference quite a bit. Also reduce the risk of getting a bogus card and given I can get a 128 GB card from Costco at a great price and zero risk is also a plus. If sandisk.com starts to sell and ship to Canada before I get my next DAP then I would be much more comfortable springing for a 200 GB card depending on price of course.

 

[Dino2000]

Buying from an Amazon seller is the same risk whether the product is shipped from the seller or shipped from Amazon.

 

[superuser1]

The size you buy depends on your capacity needs as well. I currently have a Sony A17 with 64 GB of memory and a 64 GB card. If I buy the A45 for example with 16GB onboard then a 128 GB card should do me fine for quite awhile. But if I choose the Cayin N3 or maybe the Fiio X3-III when it comes out which don't have onboard memory then I would need to spring for a 200 GB card to cover my current and future needs.

As for amazon.ca vs amazon.com the selection and choices of products and certainly the vendors is quite different and in amazon.ca's case much smaller. Canada is a significantly smaller market (about 1/10th the size) than the US and you are often getting items from an amazon vendor vs amazon itself. Amazon.com can afford to stock alot more product in their warehouses than amazon.ca can. The bogus microsd card my buddy got was received from an amazon.ca vendor but the order was fulfilled by amazon.ca.

The fakes are definitely most prominent in the 200 GB and 256 GB capacities. Part of the reason I am leaning towards the A45 is the fact I can get by with just a 128 GB card. The initial cost of the A45 will likely be higher but once you add the microsd card cost the price difference between the different capacity cards this will reduce the overall price difference quite a bit. Also reduce the risk of getting a bogus card and given I can get a 128 GB card from Costco at a great price and zero risk is also a plus. If sandisk.com starts to sell and ship to Canada before I get my next DAP then I would be much more comfortable springing for a 200 GB card depending on price of course.

Btw the fiio does have onboard memory.

 

[fish1050]

Buying from an Amazon seller is the same risk whether the product is shipped from the seller or shipped from Amazon.

That is why I will only buy microsd cards from local retailers or direct from the manufacturer.

 

[fish1050]

Btw the fiio does have onboard memory.

I know the X7 MK II has 64 GB onboard but I don't see any mention of onboard memory for the X3-III in the specifications on the Fiio site. It only says it can handle 256 GB microsd cards, where did you see that the X3-III has onboard memory?

 

[superuser1]

I am holding it in my hand see that it has onboard memory of 32 gigs

 

[Witcher]

as said above, it's psycho acoustic trickery number one. the best most powerful one. louder does feel better in almost every way(up to a point where it's just too loud). and to make matters worst, our brain constantly tries to adapt to new sounds. so once you've gone up, going down doesn't feel like going back to normal, it feels like removing stuff. with EQ you can see how easy it is to fool ourselves by testing the bass. you listen to something, boost the bass, then go back to the previous setting. and at least for a moment, you feel like there is less bass than before on the same setting. so intuitively if you just go around moving the slider up and down, you will most likely end up boosting stuff pretty much everywhere. it's wrong, but perfectly normal, your brain does tell you it's better than way.

as a very crude tip for EQ beginner, I'd say to always try to lower the settings, then you try the result against no EQ. and if the EQ still sounds better or about as good despite being handicapped by the louder is better effect, then you probably really like that EQ setting better.
also leave things alone and see how it feels in the long run. when you first take the DAP in the morning, what is your very first impression about the signature? based on that impression you can try incremental changes and see where that leads you.

I know what you mean. I have a sound in my head that I'm shooting for. Something that is based on existing equipment I have. I am an amateur rock guitarist with 20 years of gear tweaking experience, so having that reference tone in my head usually works. I was just amused that this tone I managed to coax ended up with me just pushing everything to the max. I've done quite a lot of comparisons to 0dB gain, EQ Off, and this setting, and all with different volumes. It turns out that with this setting, I still turn the volumes down quite a bit (something like 35 to 40?), so I'm not benefitting from the loudness phenomenon. It still is different. I also went back to that lower setting you recommended to start off with it. The sounds became too warm = too bassy, even with increased volumes. So this EQ isn't just a matter of volume boosts. The way they did their algorithms for this isn't as precise as a standard 10 band graphic EQ.

 

[castleofargh]

I know what you mean. I have a sound in my head that I'm shooting for. Something that is based on existing equipment I have. I am an amateur rock guitarist with 20 years of gear tweaking experience, so having that reference tone in my head usually works. I was just amused that this tone I managed to coax ended up with me just pushing everything to the max. I've done quite a lot of comparisons to 0dB gain, EQ Off, and this setting, and all with different volumes. It turns out that with this setting, I still turn the volumes down quite a bit (something like 35 to 40?), so I'm not benefitting from the loudness phenomenon. It still is different. I also went back to that lower setting you recommended to start off with it. The sounds became too warm = too bassy, even with increased volumes. So this EQ isn't just a matter of volume boosts. The way they did their algorithms for this isn't as precise as a standard 10 band graphic EQ.

oh sure there is a difference between flat and everything boosted by a margin on that EQ. the boosts are centered at the frequency mentioned, and then will start to go down again on both sides(I don't have one so I can't check the actual shape). you really end up with some undulating shape as final frequency response getting out of the DAP. that is probably audible at least in the mids and maybe everywhere. then there is your little change in the trebles. and perhaps also a little bit of subjective improvement from loudness.
I admit I jump on the louder is better because way too many people ignore that crucial element when testing stuff. and most believe it's not really relevant(and they're soooooo wrong). but it's still my bad for assuming it was the only cause for you feeling a change.
bad castleofargh jumping to conclusion, bad!!!