[Witcher]

I see, so it's basically EQ tweaks, which i am trying to avoid.
I had HD800S and ifi iDSD BL (Xbass on, but no EQ tweak), but i just couldn't love it. They are too sterile and flat to my taste.
Glad, i can still exchange it to utopia.

eh? but the iDSD with the Xbass on is already an EQ tweak no?

Anyways, coming from a studio perspective, I'm not adverse to EQ tweaks, as long as they work for all genres.

 

[banco-sg]

eh? but the iDSD with the Xbass on is already an EQ tweak no?

Anyways, coming from a studio perspective, I'm not adverse to EQ tweaks, as long as they work for all genres.

Sorry, I mean xbass enabled, but no additional EQ tweaks.
I am not a fan of EQ tweak, i just want my can to sound the way it supposed to be across all genres.
that's why i am leaning to a more versatile can.

 

[Witcher]

Sorry, I mean xbass enabled, but no additional EQ tweaks.
I am not a fan of EQ tweak, i just want my can to sound the way it supposed to be across all genres.
that's why i am leaning to a more versatile can.

Well, that's what I do anyways. Xbass is mainly the one I play with. Nothing else is introduced, and I tend to leave the 3D setting at one position throughout.

 

[thanatosguan]

I have 2 considerations for a head-fi or hi-fi sound:
Being a hobbyist musician myself (for the last 28 years), I am well aware of how many different tones there are for snares, guitars, basses, and even keys. I have also spent considerable time when younger in a concert band, so am familiar with the up close tones of brass, woodwinds, percussion and stringed instruments. So there is an element of accuracy that's to be expected. For example, I noticed that the much lauded Stax 009 inflated the mids too much such that a tight snare sounded like an open one. For a headphone system (with Stax amp) that was so celebrated, I was disappointed with what I heard. The way I test this out, is to listen to tracks I have recorded myself. I know what drums I used in the studio, what guitars, amps, mics, etc, so I know what to expect. I've heard several tracks that others have recommended to me as "test tracks" only to find out that these have been severely tweaked with post production mastering, rendering them unreliable, and having not been in the studio myself, it's also difficult to interpret what the mastering process did to the individual tones. In terms of tonal representation of individual instruments, I have found the Z1R to be quite accurate, and the only difference I can tell, would be a matter of decay, attack, and balance in sound. at least it doesn't compress a snare hit the way I've heard some other cans do ending up sounding like a midi patch.

I do agree that the Z1R sounds fairly accurate, despite it's perceived "bloated" bass. I think it's easy to put down these headphones as "bass monsters" but really they sound like big studio monitors in that they don't give you crazy bass unless the recording demands it, and if it demands it (mixed in or recorded), the bass is indeed crazy in both impact and quantity.

Accurate in the sense that if the mastering is true to the original sound. Of course, authenticity and "nature" are relatively outdated concepts in the age of recorded music. But as someone who's been classically trained as a pianist(I'm fairly confident in my hearing in this regard, to how different piano sounds like), when listening to piano music I feel the Z1R doesn't add or distort when the recording itself is a recording in the classical sense, i.e. a sonic record of what happened. What's especially interesting is the ability to showcase what kind of room the music was recorded in. Perhaps superior bass details and closed-back design helped.

And it's great fun to listen to other kinds of music as well. Esp. with 80s R&B. I dig the bass a lot.

 

[Witcher]

I do agree that the Z1R sounds fairly accurate, despite it's perceived "bloated" bass. I think it's easy to put down these headphones as "bass monsters" but really they sound like big studio monitors in that they don't give you crazy bass unless the recording demands it, and if it demands it (mixed in or recorded), the bass is indeed crazy in both impact and quantity.

Accurate in the sense that if the mastering is true to the original sound. Of course, authenticity and "nature" are relatively outdated concepts in the age of recorded music. But as someone who's been classically trained as a pianist(I'm fairly confident in my hearing in this regard, to how different piano sounds like), when listening to piano music I feel the Z1R doesn't add or distort when the recording itself is a recording in the classical sense, i.e. a sonic record of what happened. What's especially interesting is the ability to showcase what kind of room the music was recorded in. Perhaps superior bass details and closed-back design helped.

And it's great fun to listen to other kinds of music as well. Esp. with 80s R&B. I dig the bass a lot.

Yeah. It's fine actually for many genres. The only thing I have a beef with on the Z1R, which is where your experience lies, is in it's representation of the piano. You know how when you hit a key on the piano hard enough, you hear this sharp attack of the hammer hitting the strings as opposed to a mellow piano note from a softer press of the key? The Z1R tends to mute that attack a bit too much for my liking. lol! And yet, it does give a fairly good representation of a finger plucked nylon string guitar though. go figure.

 

[thanatosguan]

Yeah. It's fine actually for many genres. The only thing I have a beef with on the Z1R, which is where your experience lies, is in it's representation of the piano. You know how when you hit a key on the piano hard enough, you hear this sharp attack of the hammer hitting the strings as opposed to a mellow piano note from a softer press of the key? The Z1R tends to mute that attack a bit too much for my liking. lol! And yet, it does give a fairly good representation of a finger plucked nylon string guitar though. go figure.

Huh, interesting. It really depends on mic position and piano make also. Some old recordings tend to be a little too mellow. Maybe the close mic position isn't close enough. Also, not every great classical musician pays a lot of attention to recording, mostly due to ideological reasons. Pierre-Laurent Aimard is an outlier and his recordings are done with the pianist fully involved (which means torture for the piano tuner and audio engineers involved.)

Usually if it's a Steinway or Yamaha CF, the sharp attack is more obvious given the bright and sometimes brittle sound. European style pianos tend to have mellower but fuller sound. Also, Z1R is a very smooth headphones and I suppose it could mean some edges are too smooth. People say it's not suitable for rapid metal music, I guess the same could happen here.

 

[Whitigir]

Yeah. It's fine actually for many genres. The only thing I have a beef with on the Z1R, which is where your experience lies, is in it's representation of the piano. You know how when you hit a key on the piano hard enough, you hear this sharp attack of the hammer hitting the strings as opposed to a mellow piano note from a softer press of the key? The Z1R tends to mute that attack a bit too much for my liking. lol! And yet, it does give a fairly good representation of a finger plucked nylon string guitar though. go figure.

I found your opinions about this several times, and let's me dip in and say that, these sharp extensions will varies from equipments to equipments, and even in the same category or brand for the matter. This is what we call authentic and real-live sounds. Just as long as you put it through a microphone....everything changes.

Tell me this, could you ever see a good "tree Picture" from prints, or TV, or whatever to be colored the exact way a real life tree is ? You just can not, because real vs Limitations of human technology.

In the end, you have 2 opposite tastes, warmer or brighter. These players, and music reproduction is as well. You can easily observe these strings snap and plucks extensions with brighter and thinner gears, but you will find out that it is most attenuated by warmer gears ? But then, the warmer gear will reproduce bass and tonal timbres in a way that brighter gears just can not.

Those aboves are all of my experiences over the years of chasing better sounds, and in the while expensive speakers systems can get very very close to a live performances (speaker systems)....non of them can reproduce live sounds ....the same as headphones and gears. The best way is to synergies, match, and find the system that mostly satisfy you. You may find one or both kinds equally impressive depends on different tracks, genres, collections. But it will all come down to "human technologies VS Nature being", and we human, can never match it in "reproduction"

Funny enough though, each one of us will perceive things in nature differently, and so the diversity can only get....potentially unlimited...LOL!

Remember, human has flaws, and so one "flaw" tries to reproduce somethings.....or worse...trying to perfect it....lol

 

[ervin192]

When it comes to classical Z1R absolutely picks amps, it may be more tolerant to folks, where sound speed matters less.

 

[SONYES]

When it comes to classical Z1R absolutely picks amps, it may be more tolerant to folks, where sound speed matters less.

I agree with you completely.
There is a very big difference between all the devices SOUND
for in classical music.
I learned that as far as I'm from low to highest
P-1U+Z1R
SONY does not sound good with inferior devices.

 

[Witcher]

I found your opinions about this several times, and let's me dip in and say that, these sharp extensions will varies from equipments to equipments, and even in the same category or brand for the matter. This is what we call authentic and real-live sounds. Just as long as you put it through a microphone....everything changes.

Tell me this, could you ever see a good "tree Picture" from prints, or TV, or whatever to be colored the exact way a real life tree is ? You just can not, because real vs Limitations of human technology.

In the end, you have 2 opposite tastes, warmer or brighter. These players, and music reproduction is as well. You can easily observe these strings snap and plucks extensions with brighter and thinner gears, but you will find out that it is most attenuated by warmer gears ? But then, the warmer gear will reproduce bass and tonal timbres in a way that brighter gears just can not.

Those aboves are all of my experiences over the years of chasing better sounds, and in the while expensive speakers systems can get very very close to a live performances (speaker systems)....non of them can reproduce live sounds ....the same as headphones and gears. The best way is to synergies, match, and find the system that mostly satisfy you. You may find one or both kinds equally impressive depends on different tracks, genres, collections. But it will all come down to "human technologies VS Nature being", and we human, can never match it in "reproduction"

Funny enough though, each one of us will perceive things in nature differently, and so the diversity can only get....potentially unlimited...LOL!

Remember, human has flaws, and so one "flaw" tries to reproduce somethings.....or worse...trying to perfect it....lol

I do get what you're saying. However, in an earlier post in this thread, I did mention that my test tracks are those I performed and recorded myself, so I do know what is being captured, and what was played in the studio, since it was played by me. I captured my guitar, my amplifier, and I know what I'm supposed to expect. It's true that you can't reproduce a live recording because of so many environmental variances, such as how we mic up the amps, which angle we place the mics, distance, etc , ambience of the hall etc. However, it is true that it is possible to reproduce a studio recording as close as possible. Anyways nowadays even in the studio, amps (hence speaker micing) aren't always used either, since we can DI into the mixer board and have software modelling to do the rest (usually done for bass, keys and sometimes guitars). Any musician using Fractal Audio or a Kemper Profiling amp will be able to cature his exact tone on a CD, and you'll get that during playback if you have equipment close to what was used during mastering. Classical is another matter altogether, and that's always been the headache. I do agree on the point that as long as you enjoy the recording, no one should tell you if your setup is good or bad.

However, back to my point on the piano, which I have played on and off over the last 28 years, I'm quite familiar with how the instrument behaves. So it's possible to know when a setup is representing the dynamics of the piano relatively well, or as opposed to inadequacy. I was merely saying that it's funny how the Z1R does most of the instruments well, but not so much the piano.

 

[Witcher]

Huh, interesting. It really depends on mic position and piano make also. Some old recordings tend to be a little too mellow. Maybe the close mic position isn't close enough. Also, not every great classical musician pays a lot of attention to recording, mostly due to ideological reasons. Pierre-Laurent Aimard is an outlier and his recordings are done with the pianist fully involved (which means torture for the piano tuner and audio engineers involved.)

Usually if it's a Steinway or Yamaha CF, the sharp attack is more obvious given the bright and sometimes brittle sound. European style pianos tend to have mellower but fuller sound. Also, Z1R is a very smooth headphones and I suppose it could mean some edges are too smooth. People say it's not suitable for rapid metal music, I guess the same could happen here.

I find the Z1R great for fast prog metal, symphonic metal and shred guitar actually. Lol.

On that piano thing, I find the HD800S represents the piano better than the Z1R, but since I was not in that particular recording (Keith Jarret, Koln concert, Steinway baby grand, faulty sustain pedal), I can't tell for sure, though I find it more believeable on the HD800S than the Z1R for that track.

 

[thanatosguan]

I find the Z1R great for fast prog metal, symphonic metal and shred guitar actually. Lol.

On that piano thing, I find the HD800S represents the piano better than the Z1R, but since I was not in that particular recording (Keith Jarret, Koln concert, Steinway baby grand, faulty sustain pedal), I can't tell for sure, though I find it more believeable on the HD800S than the Z1R for that track.

I already knew you are going to talk about the Koln concert when I read "Keith Jarret".

Anyways, it's most important to find headphones that one can enjoy in.

 

[Witcher]

I already knew you are going to talk about the Koln concert when I read "Keith Jarret".

Anyways, it's most important to find headphones that one can enjoy in.

Hahahaha!!!

 

[Whitigir]

I do get what you're saying. However, in an earlier post in this thread, I did mention that my test tracks are those I performed and recorded myself, so I do know what is being captured, and what was played in the studio, since it was played by me. I captured my guitar, my amplifier, and I know what I'm supposed to expect. It's true that you can't reproduce a live recording because of so many environmental variances, such as how we mic up the amps, which angle we place the mics, distance, etc , ambience of the hall etc. However, it is true that it is possible to reproduce a studio recording as close as possible. Anyways nowadays even in the studio, amps (hence speaker micing) aren't always used either, since we can DI into the mixer board and have software modelling to do the rest (usually done for bass, keys and sometimes guitars). Any musician using Fractal Audio or a Kemper Profiling amp will be able to cature his exact tone on a CD, and you'll get that during playback if you have equipment close to what was used during mastering. Classical is another matter altogether, and that's always been the headache. I do agree on the point that as long as you enjoy the recording, no one should tell you if your setup is good or bad.

However, back to my point on the piano, which I have played on and off over the last 28 years, I'm quite familiar with how the instrument behaves. So it's possible to know when a setup is representing the dynamics of the piano relatively well, or as opposed to inadequacy. I was merely saying that it's funny how the Z1R does most of the instruments well, but not so much the piano.

Yeah, and hence why many reviewer (my own view included) would say that Z1R has a warmth sounding like vanilla flavored hehehe, and they don't agree that Z1R is good for classical music, but good for EDM and modern pop, and those reasons were especially stated and explained by your above statement.

I do agree though, in the end, you as the listener to your system is the one who ultimately decide what is right and what is wrong

*personal preferences*

 

[SONYES]

Hello everyone

A few things to get started.
Today after my Z1R over a month.
Their sound is quite enjoyable though very dependent on the recording.
Yesterday I heard all day with the new cable.
I got.
And of course comparing the sound between them.
And still the cable must go through a running period.

SONY MUC-B30UM1
It is beautiful but there is a degree of macropones while it is on you compared to the stok
Very soft.

Peter and the Wolf / Carnival of the Animals Recorded from 1984 with Zubin Mehta and the Philharmonic
The Israeli
And Yitzhak Perlman the announcer
SUPERB SOUND

I must tell you that I did not know my soul with happiness and sound caught up with me
To the chair.
Or ancient music with ancient artifacts from the Middle Ages.
Or other good recordings.

Here I have a movie on the cable

In the first few days I waited
Disappointed about the Z1R - but I waited
I've sold my HD800 and my best-and left me one more probably probably sold as well

I have a little problem with the sound waves of the earpiece

But I get very good results but not suitable for every recording.
And there are recordings.
To die from them.
the Z1R I prefer on the HD800
With all their advantages.
If the width is their famous stage
in what stage.
is on the
Z1R
Equally stunning with an incredible detail of the width of the stage is its height and depth.
And I really do not miss it anymore HD800.


.