[Selenium]

Glad you're liking them and don't let the strange feel of their fit trick you into thinking you actually have a poor fit. When I first got them I kept fidgeting with them but then I realized that the fit was fine, it was just my perception of the fit that made me feel otherwise. I used to use mine at the gym, but for outside the wind noise can sometimes be problematic.
 
Gotta love those mids, they have a really impressive vocal timbre(and really impressive timbre in general, pretty much on par with the EX1000 and FX700).

 

[lostid]

Quote:

You were right 

 My apologies sir. 

No problem my friend.

 

 

[eke2k6]

The funny thing is that by all the accounts I was hearing, I was expecting a shrilly, trebly mess. Imagine my surprise when I heard a full, balanced sound with amazing soundstaging. As for the fit, I'm using large triple flanges so these suckers aren't going anywhere. They just stick out so much though.

 

[lostid]

Quote:

The funny thing is that by all the accounts I was hearing, I was expecting a shrilly, trebly mess. Imagine my surprise when I heard a full, balanced sound with amazing soundstaging. As for the fit, I'm using large triple flanges so these suckers aren't going anywhere. They just stick out so much though.

The surprises always come when unexpected or unprepared.
 
I was surprised by the sound improvement brought by the rockboxed ipod 5g because I was unprepared for anything special. I decided to rockbox it simply to play the FLAC's. Boy once I plugged in my IE80 I was instantly wowed by the sound coming out of the RB'd pod. It is that mighty improvement that led me to wondering about the ipod i have owned since 2005. With a few googles I was already sold on the wolfson sound chip and the Rockbox. At that moment I was kicking my ass for not having RB'd my pod any earlier. Well we live we learn.
 
 
 

 

[Zenova]

I'm looking into getting one of these. Is Provantage a legit dealer? They seems to have the cheapest price

 

[sven993]

They are legit. I just got my pair from them. Full Sony warranty.
 

 

[Inks]

 
I think Sony changed / improved the driver material design.
 

 
 
The EX700 in some ways sounds closer to the Vsonic R04 to me, than the EX600 or EX1000.
 
Not to mention the Vsonic GR07 uses Sony's transparent bio-cellulose technology (looks similar to the E888 driver).
 
Makes me wonder if they used to be, or somehow have utilised, Sony's previous IEM production in China.
 
A shame both the E888 and EX700 are discontinued now (in part due to Thailand factory flooding perhaps), but at least we have the R04 and GR07.
 
I still find the EX700 a little better than the EX600 at the end of the day, for example in source transparency.  I think the magnesium alloy may help there, less internal refraction (a.k.a. signature) than the EX600.
 
How/Why are you drifting the conversation to this? Why is the GR07 even mentioned after to the previous discussion. 
Don't get too caught up in marketing, Sony's LCP isn't even new just renamed, the mdr-cd1700 and 2000s also used LCP,  a vectran fiber. Sony's diaphragm materials aren't anything special as whole, basically just fancy plastics. The 15$ JVC FX40 uses a 8mm carbon nano-tube driver, a more expensive and superior material, does that automatically make it a better IEM?
 

 

[kiteki]

     Quote:

Sony's LCP isn't even new just renamed, the mdr-cd1700 and 2000s also used LCP, a vectran fiber. Sony's diaphragm materials aren't anything special as whole, basically just fancy plastics.

 
The CD1700 and CD2000's are bio-cellulose on vectran,
 
source: http://reviews.cnet.com/headphones/sony-mdr-cd2000/1707-7877_7-6900011.html
 
 
The CAL! uses bio-cellulose on microfibre, perhaps the Denon series too.  Neither of these look transparent.
 
 
The Vsonic GR07 is this, they said somewhere they licensed it from Sony, who knows if that's true or not, pretty sure Sony withholds the rights to the patent though.
 

 
 
When Sony initially invented / pioneered it, they said:
 
"provides the velocity of aluminium or titanium with the 'warm, delicate sound' of paper"
 
You see, they were years before Hifiman applying titanium to the RE262 and RE272.
 
Incidentally, they used paper (very thin rice paper I think...) as a filter in the MDR-E888.  I removed it back and forth, it sounded good.
 
 
The MDR-EX700 is Polyethelene Terephthalate and Polyimide layers, layered one after the other in succession, PET->PI->PET, a few hundred times.
 
Yes they're just fancy plastics, PET is used in Pepsi and Coke bottles. PI is used in laptop screen connections... and spaceships.  So what.
 
 
The EX600 (on topic lol) doesn't sound very similar to the EX700, they must have changed the design somehow.  I'll buy the Vsonic R04 now and compare all three.
 
 
I think JVC's best drivers are in the FX500 and FX700 afaik.  I like the sound of the FXC51 though, and want to try the FXC71 and FXT-90.  Currently experimenting with / reviewing the FX500.
 
Pictures
 

 

 
 
 

 

[Inks]

So it's a mixed LCP(vectran) with bio-cellulose. 
 
I think the Sony licence thing on the GR07 is just a false rumor. Fostex can manufacture bio-cellulose diaphragm all they want, there's no patent, or maybe no longer applied. 
 
I mention that they're just fancy plastics, because diaphragms made of metals or cellulose have have far more potential due to their superior light-weight-to-rigidness ratio. So when they market such things like LCP, they're just trying to market a plastic, nothing more. 
 
Carbon-nanotubes are theoretically the best material one can use on diaphragms, they're rigid like diamons and yet are very light weight and flexible. Issue is getting it right, best drivers doesn't mean best performance, best tuning does. 

 

[vwinter]

So it's a mixed LCP(vectran) with bio-cellulose. 
 
I think the Sony licence thing on the GR07 is just a false rumor. Fostex can manufacture bio-cellulose diaphragm all they want, there's no patent, or maybe no longer applied. 
 
I mention that they're just fancy plastics, because diaphragms made of metals or cellulose have have far more potential due to their superior light-weight-to-rigidness ratio. So when they market such things like LCP, they're just trying to market a plastic, nothing more. 
 
Carbon-nanotubes are theoretically the best material one can use on diaphragms, they're rigid like diamons and yet are very light weight and flexible. Issue is getting it right, best drivers doesn't mean best performance, best tuning does. 

You mean currently available right? I find it hard to believe that carbon nanotubes are the absolute end of the line. Who has the foresight for something like that as there's some new wonder material every couple of years.

 

[Inks]

opps I meant one of the best, not THE best, but certainly one of the very few.

 

[kiteki]

So the FXT-90 uses that right?

 

[Inks]

Partly but it also uses a carbon driver. Carbon is far inferior.

The 15$ HA-FX40 uses an exclusive carbon nanotube driver.

 

[kiteki]

 
Quote:

So it's a mixed LCP(vectran) with bio-cellulose. 
 
I think the Sony licence thing on the GR07 is just a false rumor. Fostex can manufacture bio-cellulose diaphragm all they want, there's no patent, or maybe no longer applied. 
 
I mention that they're just fancy plastics, because diaphragms made of metals or cellulose have have far more potential due to their superior light-weight-to-rigidness ratio. So when they market such things like LCP, they're just trying to market a plastic, nothing more. 
 
Carbon-nanotubes are theoretically the best material one can use on diaphragms, they're rigid like diamons and yet are very light weight and flexible. Issue is getting it right, best drivers doesn't mean best performance, best tuning does. 

 
I see, so it seems you're right LCP/vectran in the EX1000 actually isn't new.
 
Btw when I said PET->PI->PET "hundreds of times", I was just taking that from Sony advertising (and the Vsonic advertising in the AutoCAD explosion picture).  I don't really trust Vsonic advertising for a couple reasons, one is this http://www.vsonic.com.cn/company/company-profile.htm, which also leaves me wondering if the differences between Vsonic R04 "updated version" and Vsonic R04 "flagship version" ($55 versus $100) have significance, or if it's only different cables / impedance ratings.
 
Likewise I've wondered if the R02 really has silver cables, and if the R07 really is transparent (not mixed) bio-cellulose, as in the picture.  It seems The GR07/R07 does sound very refined and is standing the test of time at least.  You'd think someone would have a broken GR07 and pried it open by now, but it seems most people aren't curious and just like to enjoy nice sound.
 
Now in order to layer the EX700 or Vsonic GR07 diaphragm hundreds of times, (IIRC I read this somewhere about the EX300 and EX500 too)... each layer would have to be extremely thin.
 
This paper says ~50μm layers 11mm in diametre - http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00150190490454422?journalCode=gfer20#preview
 

 
50μm x 20 = 1mm.
 
With some further research, it seems like Sony actually pressed the layers to 2.5μm... (x 100 = 0.25mm).  Not only that, they layered the PET and PI in opposite directions.
 
So in Sony's case, something like 5µm x 100 = 0.5mm as a guess.  Seems okay if cassette tape is 9µm.
 
 
It's true low weight and high stiffness is desirable in speaker drivers, such as here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beryllium#Acoustics
 
I've heard a titanium tweeter in a car audio system once, and the Hifiman RE272 I think?  From those two experiences, I'll agree with Sony's statement calling it "velocity".  The car tweeters had an icy clarity without sibilance, and the RE272 is delicate and can make vocals 'quiver', i.e. the rapid changes of volume within a second.
 
I may pick up this titanium-coated IEM which I haven't seen until now - http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/828430-REG/NOCS_NS400_001_NS400_In_Ear_Stereo_Headphones.html
 
 
So back to the Sony EX600, I'm guessing Sony has decided on a different ML diaphragm composition in the EX600/EX800ST/EX1000 since the days of EX300/EX500/EX700.
 
The EX600 inner-housing is either aluminium, polycarbonate or ABS, I can't find the explosion chart right now, either way it's not magnesium alloy, which Sony must have noticed results in extremely low resonance, somewhere in their research times.  This, in contrast to for example brass or titanium, which I believe 'attaches' a signature to the sound, via reflection.  I.e. If you put a headphone driver inside a saxophone, all music played via the driver will have a certain saxophone sound to it, (even if the FR is dead flat when it hits your ear).
 
Since the EX600 sounds neutral and clear, it took me a long time to notice that the vexed EX700 is actually more transparent... to the source.  That's what I call source-transparency, how 'locked' the sound is, dependant on the driver and all eventual reflections.  I.e. if music (in the IEM cable) is white, how much colour will it (always) receive, by the time it reaches your ear?
 
As for your comment drivers ≠ performance.  That's true, there's a lot at play, however in my view you can only take a certain kind of technology to a certain level.  For example, the EX1000 has reached a very high level of 'plastic' drivers in it's overall sound.  Plastic will only get so far, in order to take it to the 'next level' Sony could go back to their Qualia 010 technology, make a driver out of that, and then tune the filters and ear-tip selection accordingly.
 
 Sony MDR-EX1010
 
 
It reminds me of the continual DAC and amplifier discussions.  NE5532 can in an ideal circuit be lifted to very high levels, but no matter how high you lift it, you still need OPA627 to reach the next level.  It's an aside that OPA627 can sound worse than NE5532, it's like titanium can sound worse than paper.
 
 
Anyway, to sum up the Sony MDR-EX600 in my perspective, to keep this thread on topic... it's a very good performer in lots of sonic categories.  It's neutral, clear, has extension, has atmospheric soundspace, nice speed, nice acoustics... it's lacking in certain areas like the upper highs versus Ety ER-4 / RE272, and I can't stand the lack of an inner sphere in the entire new EX series (I think), but the EX600 makes up for it with it's smart looks and neutral tone with an edge.  It sounds decent with all kinds of music, and the sub-$175 street price serves a clever pandoras box effect to show IEM virgins good sound quality, while the advertisements of EX800ST and EX1000 instill flirting curiosity.
 
 
/kiteki
 
 

 

[Bokyung]

Good too see you back kiteki.