[thang3291]

Next the Senns IE900, believed to have great bass through the time, I kinda like it actually, small yet powerful, great bass but still lose the impact compared to the Z1R, bass score is 9/10 for me

True, i have the IE900 too. Excellent bass, a bit behind Z1R but i can take it outside due to how small and comfortable it is.

 

[PixelSquish]

To be fair, with every new In-Ear that gets release, people say the bass is comparable to the IER-Z1R, until the next gets released, then people say its an unfair comparison because a newer model is out.

Since 2018, a ton of In-Ear have been released where people once said, they have comparable or even better bass, and now nobody talks anymore about them. so it is totally fair to doubt it.

The Isobaric Double DD in the Volür is designed to have an higher volume (or lower distortion at the same volume). Better measurements is the only reason why this thing exists in the first place and the only thing it does better compared to an average DD.

So if the only difference is a measurement, it is fair to look at the measurement. 64 Audio basically tells you to do so.

BA Bass always outperforms DD Bass. That reason people say DD sounds better is because it is actually worse. The added distortion by the DD increases the subjective experience (the same way, people say tube amps sound better or vinyl sound better). So we are not talking about better quality but better subjective likeness. As the Design from 64 Audio decreases distortion, it is very likely that the subjective performance is not as good as people are liking the IER-Z1R for exactly that reason.

But as 64 Audio is heavily overpriced (They just buy parts and tuck them together unlike the IER-Z1R which is completely designed, developed and manufactured by Sony in Japan) so i don't see paying 2750€ for off-the-shelve parts worth ~400€ with some optimizations in the housing.

So even if the Volür would have comparable bass, it would be the worse deal all around

I'm going to listen to the people who have actually heard the Volur and other very high end IEM's, including the Z1R, and my OWN ears who has owned BOTH AT THE SAME TIME, vs a guy who is going to live with preconceived notions and graphs to justify them without hearing something or even considering the vast majority of feedback from people who have heard it.

I think you are failing at doing this hobby if this is how you approach it. But good luck.

As far as price goes, yes I do believe many IEM's are overpriced. I am not a brand fanboy that's going to rationalize thoughts like the above guy based on his brand preferences and brand dislikes. I think the Volur could cost 500 less. Either way, I'm not biased, I've heard both, literally A&B them, and so have others. The volur is a breakthrough for 64 audio in the way they implemented the bass. Plus I owned the U4s, and this guy is trying to say for bass, that's the 64 audio way, when in reality, those of us that have heard both, it's a noticeable upgrade in bass with the volur. To me I could not pick a favorite between the Z1R and the Volur in my A&B for bass. They are both to me equals. Best I've heard.

Live with your preconceived notions justified with nonsense logic.

 

[Vamp898]

I'm going to listen to the people who have actually heard the Volur and other very high end IEM's, including the Z1R, and my OWN ears who has owned BOTH AT THE SAME TIME, vs a guy who is going to live with preconceived notions and graphs to justify them without hearing something or even considering the vast majority of feedback from people who have heard it.

I tried to explain to you how that comes and that is because Audiophiles are the least reliable source one can think of.

That doesn't mean you're wrong, it just means that he might have a reason to not believe people on this forum (and i totally understand him. Just look how many people think the Blessing 2 Dusk are good)

I think you are failing at doing this hobby if this is how you approach it. But good luck.

Spending +10k on gear that sounds almost identical is succeeding in the hobby then? Wasting important resources where, in poor countries, whole family could live for months or even years is success then?

Did we came so far with narcissism that people now judge if others are doing their own hobby correct?

It is nothing wrong with buying as many flagships as you want if you know nothing better you could do with your money. Its your right, everyone's right. As long you got that money in an legal way, you are absolutely free to spend it however you want (in legal limits) but be more cautious when telling other people if they do their hobby right or wrong.

Some people in this forum change their opinion with their underwear, it is a sane and clever idea to not trust some random guy just because he has a strong opinion.

You can't just trust random people in this forum and in a lot of countries, there is no way to test them and/or return them after buying. In germany for example, they are hygienic items and a lot of companies refuse returns and are allowed to do so by law. That means some stores sell the 64 Audio Volür and if you don't like it, you have no choice but to keep it. So even though i highly disagree, i do understand why people check graphs before buying.

As far as price goes, yes I do believe many IEM's are overpriced. I am not a brand fanboy that's going to rationalize thoughts like the above guy based on his brand preferences and brand dislikes. I think the Volur could cost 500 less. Either way, I'm not biased, I've heard both, literally A&B them, and so have others. The volur is a breakthrough for 64 audio in the way they implemented the bass. Plus I owned the U4s, and this guy is trying to say for bass, that's the 64 audio way, when in reality, those of us that have heard both, it's a noticeable upgrade in bass with the volur. To me I could not pick a favorite between the Z1R and the Volur in my A&B for bass. They are both to me equals. Best I've heard.

Live with your preconceived notions justified with nonsense logic.

I sold the IER-Z1R and kept the IER-M9 because it is objectively better. If your statement is true, the IER-M9 is also better than the Volür.

The best IEM i heard from 64 Audio so far was the U18s, i am looking forward to test the Volür and see if its better.

 

[gLer]

My 0.02, having reviewed Volür alongside Z1R, is that their bass presentations are very different, and complementary rather than competitive. I still prefer Z1R over any other IEM not just for its bass, but also other factors (like stage size and treble quality), both of which surpass Volür in my opinion, but are still different enough to make them complementary sets.

By the way, arguing over which IEM is best is a fool's errand in this hobby. May as well argue politics and religion (please don't!). Which IEM/S we prefer, well, that's up to each of us, and shouldn't be seen as a competition.

 

[PixelSquish]

I tried to explain to you how that comes and that is because Audiophiles are the least reliable source one can think of.

That doesn't mean you're wrong, it just means that he might have a reason to not believe people on this forum (and i totally understand him. Just look how many people think the Blessing 2 Dusk are good)


Spending +10k on gear that sounds almost identical is succeeding in the hobby then? Wasting important resources where, in poor countries, whole family could live for months or even years is success then?

Did we came so far with narcissism that people now judge if others are doing their own hobby correct?

It is nothing wrong with buying as many flagships as you want if you know nothing better you could do with your money. Its your right, everyone's right. As long you got that money in an legal way, you are absolutely free to spend it however you want (in legal limits) but be more cautious when telling other people if they do their hobby right or wrong.

Some people in this forum change their opinion with their underwear, it is a sane and clever idea to not trust some random guy just because he has a strong opinion.

You can't just trust random people in this forum and in a lot of countries, there is no way to test them and/or return them after buying. In germany for example, they are hygienic items and a lot of companies refuse returns and are allowed to do so by law. That means some stores sell the 64 Audio Volür and if you don't like it, you have no choice but to keep it. So even though i highly disagree, i do understand why people check graphs before buying.

I sold the IER-Z1R and kept the IER-M9 because it is objectively better. If your statement is true, the IER-M9 is also better than the Volür.

The best IEM i heard from 64 Audio so far was the U18s, i am looking forward to test the Volür and see if its better.

I'm not sure how high you're holier than thou King's chair sits but it's pretty high.

I have always mentioned in this forum how I think the price hikes and fomo and things like this are excessive.

Also I don't have $10,000 in iems. The Volür were my first over 2k. I traded the U4s for the Z1R. And the z1r are just about 2K themselves so let's not pretend these are some budget IEMs. I'm trying to end up with two high-end iems, something with the volur sound signature And something more technical and fast. This is why my z1r are shipped, trading for the a8000. I don't have 10 grand to spend on iems and I totally agree instead it a million times here that consumer culture is out of control. That's a whole different discussion though.

And of course I don't have the same hearings other people so I take other people's listening impressions with grains of salt, But you are defending the ridiculous here.

I happen to have heard the u4s and the z1r and the Volür. And this guy's trying to tell me with his clear bias against 64 audio that he knows exactly the sounds. He made such a foolish statement as to compare the u12t ba bass against the u4s and Volür.

If there's one thing consistent on this forum is that you're not getting good DD bass out of a ba no matter how good it is. Especially not dd's which are high quality, like in the U4s and especially the volure and the z1r. Keep in mind I've heard them all three and everybody I've read says u12t ba bass is nice but you can't compare it to a good DD.

That guy is the worst part of this hobby. It's all about just hating on things he disagrees with but then lets those biases color his opinion based on these preconceived notions with absolutely zero evidence.

I mean the stuff he stated is insanely ridiculous, very misleading, And completely separate from our understanding that this consumer culture is out of control.

Unlike any of you I've heard both the z1r and the Volur A to B multiple times. I also don't have this brand bias that this guy clearly does, And I'm clearly much More objective than anything that guy said.

The consumer culture stuff is a separate discussion right now we are talking about the sound of bass between certain DD.

Try to keep the topic separate.

 

[PixelSquish]

My 0.02, having reviewed Volür alongside Z1R, is that their bass presentations are very different, and complementary rather than competitive. I still prefer Z1R over any other IEM not just for its bass, but also other factors (like stage size and treble quality), both of which surpass Volür in my opinion, but are still different enough to make them complementary sets.

By the way, arguing over which IEM is best is a fool's errand in this hobby. May as well argue politics and religion (please don't!). Which IEM/S we prefer, well, that's up to each of us, and shouldn't be seen as a competition.

Well as you noticed I clearly did not State anything about my overall preference for the sound signatures of either of those two IEMs. They are quite different and I love them both. I never said one was better than the other, And even regards to the bassI don't even do that. I literally said they are both of the same high quality and one isn't necessarily better with the other, but yes, they were peers. People really find something to get offended about to defend their preconceived notions let me tell you.

We are talking about comparing a single frequency, The bass frequency. That's perfectly valid.

And I'm just pointing out his opinions on them come from a less educated place, with heavy biases and extreme preconceived notions that he needs to justify in advance.

It's fair to talk bass to bass and treble to treble.

 

[DynamicEars]

I'm going to listen to the people who have actually heard the Volur and other very high end IEM's, including the Z1R, and my OWN ears who has owned BOTH AT THE SAME TIME, vs a guy who is going to live with preconceived notions and graphs to justify them without hearing something or even considering the vast majority of feedback from people who have heard it.

I think you are failing at doing this hobby if this is how you approach it. But good luck.

As far as price goes, yes I do believe many IEM's are overpriced. I am not a brand fanboy that's going to rationalize thoughts like the above guy based on his brand preferences and brand dislikes. I think the Volur could cost 500 less. Either way, I'm not biased, I've heard both, literally A&B them, and so have others. The volur is a breakthrough for 64 audio in the way they implemented the bass. Plus I owned the U4s, and this guy is trying to say for bass, that's the 64 audio way, when in reality, those of us that have heard both, it's a noticeable upgrade in bass with the volur. To me I could not pick a favorite between the Z1R and the Volur in my A&B for bass. They are both to me equals. Best I've heard.

Live with your preconceived notions justified with nonsense logic.

I'm not sure how high you're holier than thou King's chair sits but it's pretty high.

I have always mentioned in this forum how I think the price hikes and fomo and things like this are excessive.

Also I don't have $10,000 in iems. The Volür were my first over 2k. I traded the U4s for the Z1R. And the z1r are just about 2K themselves so let's not pretend these are some budget IEMs. I'm trying to end up with two high-end iems, something with the volur sound signature And something more technical and fast. This is why my z1r are shipped, trading for the a8000. I don't have 10 grand to spend on iems and I totally agree instead it a million times here that consumer culture is out of control. That's a whole different discussion though.

And of course I don't have the same hearings other people so I take other people's listening impressions with grains of salt, But you are defending the ridiculous here.

I happen to have heard the u4s and the z1r and the Volür. And this guy's trying to tell me with his clear bias against 64 audio that he knows exactly the sounds. He made such a foolish statement as to compare the u12t ba bass against the u4s and Volür.

If there's one thing consistent on this forum is that you're not getting good DD bass out of a ba no matter how good it is. Especially not dd's which are high quality, like in the U4s and especially the volure and the z1r. Keep in mind I've heard them all three and everybody I've read says u12t ba bass is nice but you can't compare it to a good DD.

That guy is the worst part of this hobby. It's all about just hating on things he disagrees with but then lets those biases color his opinion based on these preconceived notions with absolutely zero evidence.

I mean the stuff he stated is insanely ridiculous, very misleading, And completely separate from our understanding that this consumer culture is out of control.

Unlike any of you I've heard both the z1r and the Volur A to B multiple times. I also don't have this brand bias that this guy clearly does, And I'm clearly much More objective than anything that guy said.

The consumer culture stuff is a separate discussion right now we are talking about the sound of bass between certain DD.

Try to keep the topic separate.

Dude, sorry for misinterpreting or leading you to misinterpret my comments. I had / listen to others IEMs too, in my search for the best bass. That's my point, if there is any better quality bass in an IEM, then I will happily trade my Z1R for that, but to date, I haven't find any. I don't have any intentions to bash other brand IEM with no reasons.
And again I'm not Sony fan, not a brand bias, just happen that the bass I like is the Z1R from Sony. If I were a fanboy, I would pick WM1Am2 rather than Fiio M17 to pair with the Z1R, and I have other brand too, Im keeping the Unique Melody Mest for the resolution and imaging capabilities which I like it more than the Z1R.
And about the"graph" if you read my comment again, I just saying, I prefer the bass "tuning" of U12t or U4s which is the flat from mid until 200hz ish and sudden tuck in. I didn't say the u12t bass is better, I just like the tuning compared to the linear bass tuning from mid to sub bass, thats why usually I avoid that linear bass tuning as I heard a lot of bass tuned that way, and I don't like it because of the "bleed". If you are persist that Volur have great bass comparable with Z1R with that exception even the bass tuning is linear, then I will happily put on my "next" list and thank to you.
C'mon we aren't kindergarten's kids man, just chill and listen to the music. I do apologize if my words are disturbing you. Cheers!

 

[newworld666]

I sold the IER-Z1R and kept the IER-M9 because it is objectively better. If your statement is true, the IER-M9 is also better than the Volür.

I am really intrigued by your opinion, as for a long time, I use every day the IER-Z1R (office) AND IER-M9 (Home/Bed), with a NW-WM1A/NPmod and FIIO M17 (in enhanced power mode) while making a lot of tips rolling (Comply foam, Sony's M9/Z1R silicon and foam tips, 1000MX5 Foam, many Azla MAX, Spinfit and JVC tips) I can never reproduce your feeling that IER-Z1R and M9 are almots on par or even better with M9 concerning lows and ultra lows...
I just made again some A/B comparison and I still really enjoy the IER-M9 a lot but I only feel quite visceral impacts only with IER-Z1R.. whatever I try to EQ the M9 (Poweramp Equalizer app). Of course, mainly for comfort issue for slide sleepers, I will still use this every night the M9 with a huge pleasure

Of course, I trust you completly, but maybe can you be more precise to describe with which conf you were (DAP & Tips, with or Without EQ) to compare Z1R and M9 ?

PS : I know that here some perfers the Z1R with FIIO M17, but for my taste, strangely, M17 doesn't reach the sound quality level of my modded WM1A.. I don't know what Sony is doing with there DAP in direct mode or if MrWalkman firmware is impacting a lot (too much ?) the sound, but results are really pleasing my ears with both M9 and Z1R....
otherwise Nayparm NW-WM1A mod can potentially be a source of the SQ level of mine (but I have no way to confirm this in real world)

 

[MudEnjoyer]

I am really intrigued by your opinion, as for a long time, I use every day the IER-Z1R (office) AND IER-M9 (Home/Bed), with a NW-WM1A/NPmod and FIIO M17 (in enhanced power mode) while making a lot of tips rolling (Comply foam, Sony's M9/Z1R silicon and foam tips, 1000MX5 Foam, many Azla MAX, Spinfit and JVC tips) I can never reproduce your feeling that IER-Z1R and M9 are almots on par or even better with M9 concerning lows and ultra lows...
I just made again some A/B comparison and I still really enjoy the IER-M9 a lot but I only feel quite visceral impacts only with IER-Z1R.. whatever I try to EQ the M9 (Poweramp Equalizer app). Of course, mainly for comfort issue for slide sleepers, I will still use this every night the M9 with a huge pleasure

Of course, I trust you completly, but maybe can you be more precise to describe with which conf you were (DAP & Tips, with or Without EQ) to compare Z1R and M9 ?

PS : I know that here some perfers the Z1R with FIIO M17, but for my taste, strangely, M17 doesn't reach the sound quality level of my modded WM1A.. I don't know what Sony is doing with there DAP in direct mode or if MrWalkman firmware is impacting a lot (too much ?) the sound, but results are really pleasing my ears with both M9 and Z1R....
otherwise Nayparm NW-WM1A mod can potentially be a source of the SQ level of mine (but I have no way to confirm this in real world)

I think it's important to understand that ultra lows do not necessarily translate to impactful bass. In fact, quite the opposite.

According to my coupler (this is an old picture and can't be arsed to re-do it with the Z1R, but it's around Variations level last time I checked), the IER-M9 is the IEM with the deepest reaching ultra sound (see image, normalized at 40Hz) and while they sound bassy, they are not as impactful as the Z1R or the Final E5000 (which also kicks like a mule when properly powered). In fact, the IER-M9 start kicking harder when I start playing with the DC Phase filter on the Walkman (which rolls the sub bass), it also sounds more like a DD if I add the arm resonance vinyl processor which adds distortion.

So you could say the IER-M9 has objectively speaking better lows, but it depends on what you're looking for. Again with E5000. It's also a DD and can be worn deeply inserted like the Z1R, but it's also the IEM king of distortion which some people actually prefer despite being objectively "bad".

The thing is, that you cannot achieve the Z1R's bass without sacrificing the lower mids, which is something I'd hate the M9 to do, because I want that studio like sound when I use them. It's also a BA that is meant to be used with a shallow insert, so there are inherent limitations. You can actually get close with EQ, but it's a bit of apples and oranges situation.

 

[newworld666]

I think it's important to understand that ultra lows do not necessarily translate to impactful bass. In fact, quite the opposite.

According to my coupler (this is an old picture and can't be arsed to re-do it with the Z1R, but it's around Variations level last time I checked), the IER-M9 is the IEM with the deepest reaching ultra sound (see image, normalized at 40Hz) and while they sound bassy, they are not as impactful as the Z1R or the Final E5000 (which also kicks like a mule when properly powered). In fact, the IER-M9 start kicking harder when I start playing with the DC Phase filter on the Walkman (which rolls the sub bass), it also sounds more like a DD if I add the arm resonance vinyl processor which adds distortion.



So you could say the IER-M9 has objectively speaking better lows, but it depends on what you're looking for. Again with E5000. It's also a DD and can be worn deeply inserted like the Z1R, but it's also the IEM king of distortion which some people actually prefer despite being objectively "bad".

The thing is, that you cannot achieve the Z1R's bass without sacrificing the lower mids, which is something I'd hate the M9 to do, because I want that studio like sound when I use them. It's also a BA that is meant to be used with a shallow insert, so there are inherent limitations. You can actually get close with EQ, but it's a bit of apples and oranges situation.

Thank you .. but I was clearly referencing for LOWS and ultra lows .. I have no doubt that ultra lows don't produce any speed for deep visceral impacts, and produce mostly low "speed" rumble..

Anyway, I have no idea if M9 is nearer the "reality" of a true monitoring rendering device or not, but as it is, the IER-Z1R for me is really convincing for LOWS and ultra lows as a target.
As I said, as a daily M9 user, I would prefer to find some EQ for the M9 to be nearer the Z1R sound quality result than the opposite. Till now, I couldn't by EQing the M9 find anyway to do it.
So I guess probably the specific BA or Dynamic drivers results of the Z1R can't be approach by any EQ parameters. M9 is a very good IEM for my personal taste, I even find it better than my VE EXT, IE600, IE900 or Xelento (I also own)

 

[PixelSquish]

I think it's important to understand that ultra lows do not necessarily translate to impactful bass. In fact, quite the opposite.

According to my coupler (this is an old picture and can't be arsed to re-do it with the Z1R, but it's around Variations level last time I checked), the IER-M9 is the IEM with the deepest reaching ultra sound (see image, normalized at 40Hz) and while they sound bassy, they are not as impactful as the Z1R or the Final E5000 (which also kicks like a mule when properly powered). In fact, the IER-M9 start kicking harder when I start playing with the DC Phase filter on the Walkman (which rolls the sub bass), it also sounds more like a DD if I add the arm resonance vinyl processor which adds distortion.



So you could say the IER-M9 has objectively speaking better lows, but it depends on what you're looking for. Again with E5000. It's also a DD and can be worn deeply inserted like the Z1R, but it's also the IEM king of distortion which some people actually prefer despite being objectively "bad".

The thing is, that you cannot achieve the Z1R's bass without sacrificing the lower mids, which is something I'd hate the M9 to do, because I want that studio like sound when I use them. It's also a BA that is meant to be used with a shallow insert, so there are inherent limitations. You can actually get close with EQ, but it's a bit of apples and oranges situation.

Not quite true. The upgrade the double dynamic isobaric chamber does for the Volur is you have amazing bass, but it still lets you have a nice midrange. It is so controlled while being very present. While I wanted to keep the Z1R as well as the Volur, as they complement each other quite well, finances deemed I could only choose one, and for my listening preferences, the bass being so close to equal, if I had to have one set, I needed the mids of the Volur. I think people exaggerate how recessed the mids are on the Z1R but they are a bit. Others would prefer the Z1R's overall presentation if they had to choose. And that's cool, that's personal preference.

 

[MudEnjoyer]

Till now, I couldn't by EQing the M9 find anyway to do it.

EQ them to Meteor bass shelf

Filter 1: ON PK Fc 32 Hz Gain 1.5 dB Q 0.500
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 250 Hz Gain -1.8 dB Q 1.200

Then fill 6kHz by ear.

But you will never get close to Z1R with tuning alone.

 

[MudEnjoyer]

I think people exaggerate how recessed the mids are on the Z1R but they are a bit.

Yes, this is true, for me they are (particularly the lower mids), but not to the point they ruin the experience.

Then you look at other reviewers who claim the Z1R mids are recessed and then go shill the Variations which sounds like a total joke. Thin and shouty.

So I guess they just don't like the tasteful 3kHz dip.

 

[LORDROOTMAN]

I’m using IFI

xDSD Gryphon and Go Bar with Xbass Sony becomes super bass IEM​

 

[SCYJ]

Yes, this is true, for me they are (particularly the lower mids), but not to the point they ruin the experience.

Then you look at other reviewers who claim the Z1R mids are recessed and then go shill the Variations which sounds like a total joke. Thin and shouty.

So I guess they just don't like the tasteful 3kHz dip.

Honestly don't think the lower mids dip is as bad as they claim. It's done on purpose for a V shape and amplifies the perception of space that the Z1R's immense soundstage already provides. But I probably don't think it's an issue because I predominantly listen to female vocals and that's what I listened to when I demo-ed the Z1R. Can't recall my experience with Z1R and male vocals though.