[dazzerfong]

As it currently stands the former would be not possible. The Z1R is entirely dependent on that 12mm DD and there’s simply no way to shove that into an M9 shell. You would essentially need a much smaller DD (which Sony have their qualms about, DD diaphragm size is very important to them) in order to fit that form factor.

It's not so much the fact that it's bit - it's the shape. 64 Audio stuff is BIG and yet they aren't ridiculously uncomfortable.

I suppose that's the compromise we have to deal with - comfort or sound.

Funnily enough, the sales staff dissuaded me from the MDR-Z1R. They all have an obsession with the IER instead....

 

[aminus]

It's not so much the fact that it's bit - it's the shape. 64 Audio stuff is BIG and yet they aren't ridiculously uncomfortable.

I suppose that's the compromise we have to deal with - comfort or sound.

Funnily enough, the sales staff dissuaded me from the MDR-Z1R. They all have an obsession with the IER instead....

Oh yeah definitely, that shape is difficult for a lot of people to work with, but it pretty much is mandated by the extreme size of the DD in question. That’s the game you play with Sony I guess, they’re willing to sacrifice a lot of comfort if it means better sound.

 

[GiullianSN]

As I said on my comparison on the other thread. Sony had two things in mind when designed the Z1r, Sound and look. Looks like comfort was not part of the discussion or was the least of their concerns, was more like "can you wear it? so, that's ok".

 

[cn11]

Got in a pair of the IER-M9... really like the presentation so far. Bass is excellent for a BA setup, and reminds me a lot of the bass quantity/quality of the Anole VX w/ all switches off (default bass). The rest of the frequency range is how I wish the Z1R sounded. To my ears, the M9 has a more encompassing sense of space, with greater height and depth.... it's just not stretched as crazy wide as the Z1R. I like the tone of the mids better on the M9 - they are more forward, and have a more full feeling, especially in vocals where the tone is much more natural.

Will keep listening throughout the day, and do some direct back-to-back comparing w/ the Z1R tonight.

 

[Ocelitgol]

Got in a pair of the IER-M9... really like the presentation so far. Bass is excellent for a BA setup, and reminds me a lot of the bass quantity/quality of the Anole VX w/ all switches off (default bass). The rest of the frequency range is how I wish the Z1R sounded. To my ears, the M9 has a more encompassing sense of space, with greater height and depth.... it's just not stretched as crazy wide as the Z1R. I like the tone of the mids better on the M9 - they are more forward, and have a more full feeling, especially in vocals where the tone is much more natural.

Will keep listening throughout the day, and do some direct back-to-back comparing w/ the Z1R tonight.

Looking forward to that comparison. M9 is indeed (to me) one of the best all-rounder. Sometimes it can be boring though. Also, I tend to crank the volume way higher than normal on M9...it just feels so nice....

 

[Extrasensory]

I used to demo the VX last week too. The sound stage was much wider on the VX. Now I am having the feeling of "intimacy" on my M9 although I haven't had this feeling before. Lol

Anyway, the M9 is not far behind in other aspects.

The VX is smoother, with even more neutral sound signature and more resolving.

 

[cn11]

So after some more time with the M9 I can say that I enjoy it more than the Z1R. It just seems more real and genuine than the bigger brother. The Z1R is almost overly grandiose, and tries too hard. It gets too much wrong in the midrange and treble to my ears. The mids seem stretched thin, and lack volume (in the 3D sense, not loudness), and as such vocals seem just off a bit. Treble is splashier by comparison, and kind of "tizzy". Of course the stage is significantly wider on the Z1R, but it doesn't have the height/depth and encompassing feel that the M9 does (again, stretched wide yet thin). Treble on the M9 has more sparkle, and a slight bit more heft to it, lending a tactile sense of realism that the Z1R doesn't have. I think I can deal with the tradeoff of the dynamic driver bass impact for the rest of the plusses that come with the M9. It's not an IEM that whacks you over the head with bravado, but slowly gives more and more impressive listening experiences. Oh, and then there's the issue of comfort which the M9 has in spades.

 

[pstickne]

Oh yeah definitely, that shape is difficult for a lot of people to work with, but it pretty much is mandated by the extreme size of the DD in question. That’s the game you play with Sony I guess, they’re willing to sacrifice a lot of comfort if it means better sound.

The FiiO FH7 has a 13.6mm DD + 4 BAs so, gonna call a bit of “check that” on the size and comfort issues - as mandated by some “extreme” DD diameter size alone.

Maybe the DD is thicker, or needs different spacing. However, no such argument has been currently made when brandishing “12 mm”, being simply a measurement of diameter.

Also, FWIW, Sony uses a their own “T”-shaped BAs, which might limit arrangement compare to a standard Knowles design.. could they have also put a DD (even if slightly smaller) in the M9 as well, while maintaining comfort? I suspect so; that was simply not the design.

 

[aminus]

The FiiO FH7 has a 13.6mm DD + 4 BAs so, gonna call a bit of “check that” on the size and comfort issues - as mandated by some “extreme” DD diameter size alone.

Maybe the DD is thicker, or needs different spacing. However, no such argument has been currently made when brandishing “12 mm”, being simply a measurement of diameter.

Also, FWIW, Sony uses a their own “T”-shaped BAs, which might limit arrangement compare to a standard Knowles design.. could they have also put a DD (even if slightly smaller) in the M9 as well, while maintaining comfort? I suspect so; that was simply not the design.

You’re forgetting that there’s also a moderately thick magnesium housing around the DD that makes the actual thing even larger than it really is. Combine that with the final layer of zirconium housing and you have a design that’s really not possible to fit in an ergonomic shell. And anyways regarding the FH7, I’ll let the results of that speak for themselves.
As for the T shaped BAs, it just means that they have to add a small notch jutting out of the shell that fits the ear fairly ergonomically. That’s the least of the reasons that the Z1R is the uncomfortable shape it is

 

[pstickne]

You’re forgetting that there’s also a moderately thick magnesium housing around the DD that makes the actual thing even larger than it really is. Combine that with the final layer of zirconium housing and you have a design that’s really not possible to fit in an ergonomic shell. And anyways regarding the FH7, I’ll let the results of that speak for themselves.
As for the T shaped BAs, it just means that they have to add a small notch jutting out of the shell that fits the ear fairly ergonomically. That’s the least of the reasons that the Z1R is the uncomfortable shape it is

Fair point on housing considerations in final design.

 

[dazzerfong]

The FiiO FH7 has a 13.6mm DD + 4 BAs so, gonna call a bit of “check that” on the size and comfort issues - as mandated by some “extreme” DD diameter size alone.

Maybe the DD is thicker, or needs different spacing. However, no such argument has been currently made when brandishing “12 mm”, being simply a measurement of diameter.

Also, FWIW, Sony uses a their own “T”-shaped BAs, which might limit arrangement compare to a standard Knowles design.. could they have also put a DD (even if slightly smaller) in the M9 as well, while maintaining comfort? I suspect so; that was simply not the design.

The Z1R has two DDs. Yes, the second one is 5mm 'only': but that means that it has to stick out more if the are stacking them.

 

[aminus]

The BA shape doesn’t apply to Z1R.

I mean, it does. It’s just a pretty inconsequential part of the design since the location of it is actually pretty ergonomic.

 

[pstickne]

I mean, it does. It’s just a pretty inconsequential part of the design since the location of it is actually pretty ergonomic.

Thanks, I need sleep..

 

[GiullianSN]

The arrangement of the DDs om the Sony is where the shape of it comes from, the DDs are in front of each other and straight line to the bore, the BA is just on the side and doesn't affect the comfort. No tubing required here, like other IEM arrangements. What affect most the confort is not even the drives is how they implemented the MMCX connector, too deep that ended up being a sharp contact to the concha.

 

[aminus]

The arrangement of the DDs om the Sony is where the shape of it comes from, the DDs are in front of each other and straight line to the bore, the BA is just on the side and doesn't affect the comfort. No tubing required here, like other IEM arrangements. What affect most the confort is not even the drives is how they implemented the MMCX connector, too deep that ended up being a sharp contact to the concha.

Yeah, the L/R indicators are the biggest genuine flaw with the design. Sony could have rounded that part off without affecting the drivers, but they made it a fairly sharp right angle. It fits fine on my right ear but I find my left ear complaining somewhat frequently. Not that I particularly care of course, the sound speaks for itself.