[VandyMan]

Then either you have very good cinemas or you don't like it loud...

115 dB in the bass is not THAT much, your usual rock concert or club is louder! And since you have those levels more or less permanently there it is way more damaging to the ears than a movie, where you have such levels usually only in comparatively short action scenes. Most of the movie is dialog that plays in the 70-85 dB area.

I do enjoy loud concerts, but I usually wear hearing protection. I've been to literally hundreds of rock concerts and would be near deaf if I did not protect my hearing. I find movies in theaters in the US to be unpleasantly loud. Much louder than they were as recently as ten years ago. Especially action movies and comic book movies. So I just watch at home when they come to streaming, if they seem any good

https://news.northeastern.edu/2022/05/26/movie-theater-hearing-damage/

 

[VandyMan]

That's what works for me personally. My father wore a hearing aid starting in his late 50s and my older brother now has one (he is in his early sixties). So I have good reason to go to extra effort to protect my hearing. I use my A-16 probably 10+ hours per week and use headphones most of the work day, so high volume levels would equal a lot of exposure. If I could not listen to music anymore, my life would feel very sad.

 

[Andrew Seeley]

"could not listen to music anymore" ^@15,782
I will try audiohobbit's(Thank You) videos from the Realiser but am not at home. Will do in the next few days (on a trip to Vegas and LA)

Now, if I had a headstand version I might have used the realiser portably on the downkey with the Hpeq'ed SR 003... nutty though that definitely sounds. But use my accursed rack mount instead. And portability does not lend itself to credibility given the sheer length of the Rack-mount.

Crude, But - portable realiser setup pictured I was doing in 2020

If anyone wants to trade rack mount for headstand, I'd trade! At least the rack mount isn't very deep, it's just the same as the headstand.

Send me a pm anytime whenever any members who are interested have a chance to read, thank you for reading the portable - realiser blurb

 

[dsperber]

Have any of you ever had any noise issues with your A16 from the headphone out jacks from the back, and if so, how did you resolve it?

So I tried an older tube amp, but it too has the same hum issue after a certain volume. I then tried both amps with an MP3 player, my A8 and another external audio device and none of them exhibited this hum. I've even tried plugging the A16 into a different outlet as well as moving as many cables away from it as I can, yet the issue still persists. It's only out of the RCA jacks from the back, and connecting headphones directly to the front jacks are noise free.

Back several Yamaha AVRs ago, when there were lots of analog RCA cable connections to my assorted devices all going through the AVR, I had a very bad ground loop hum coming from my Stax SR-Omega/SRM-T1S fed from the RCA jacks on the back of my A8. Couldn't seem to find the cause, or eliminate it. Obviously a ground-loop hum, apparently very typical with the use of a large number RCA cable analog connections. Some device is probably the culprit but it's very tough to find it, and then what would you do anyway if you needed it.

Eventually somebody suggested using a simple "3-prong to 2-prong riser (as I called it)", to "lift" ground from the power plug on the cord going from the Stax amp to my power strip in order to eliminate. I was terrified to do this, leaving my Stax amp ungrounded. Nevertheless I tried it... and like magic the hum was gone!

That was about 15 years ago now, and I've moved on at this equipment rack from an A8 to an A16, from an SR-Omega/SRM-T1S to an SR-009/SRM-007tII, from a "mostly analog" Yamaha RX-V863 to a "mostly digital" Yamaha RX-A1080, and also to no longer using the RCA outputs of the Realiser but instead using optical->DAC->XLR->Stax.

Of course using the optical output of the A16 and thus completely eliminating any RCA input to the Stax amp probably is today sufficient to guarantee that any possible ground loop hum couldn't possibly exist. Nevertheless, to this very day I still have that "riser" in place on my power strip, "lifting" the power plug coming from my Stax amp so that I actually do not have it grounded. I'm probably doing a bad bad thing, but it's just something I've never changed.


Second idea...

I've previously described a similar ground loop hum story when I was trying to capture a 2.0 PRIR in my car using my A8, in order to be able to listen through headphones what the audio system in my car sounded like. I had purchased a 12VDC-120VAC power gizmo (plugged into the cigarette lighter of the car) that we could plug the A8 into. And I had RCA connections from the analog output of the A8 going to the AUX "stereo" 3.5mm input of my car's audio system. And I had an impossible ground loop hum, making measurement impossible. We tried using an external power outlet on the wall in the garage instead of the power gizmo, but that didn't stop the hum. Again, there was obviously a ground loop hum stemming from the use of the RCA cables coming out of the A8's analog outputs.

I then invested in a small portable A-to-D unit with RCA input and optical/coax output, as well as a small portable D-to-A unit which had optical/coax input and RCA output. Prices for these were quite reasonable. I connected the two with an optical cable. So this was like a conceptual "ground loop hum eliminator" in a home RG6 coaxial cable situation (again subject to ground loop like an RCA cable), that uses an RF intermediate break-out box to go from coax/copper to RF and then back to coax/copper, physically eliminating the ground shield component coming through the original coax from source to destination. My pair of A-to-D and D-to-A boxes connected by an optical cable is identical in concept.

And, sure enough, using this pair of gizmos to feed the A8's analog outputs to my car's AUX input did the trick! No more hum, and we actually could now do the PRIR capture.


YMMV.

 

[Sanctuary]

Back several Yamaha AVRs ago, when there were lots of analog RCA cable connections to my assorted devices all going through the AVR, I had a very bad ground loop hum coming from my Stax SR-Omega/SRM-T1S fed from the RCA jacks on the back of my A8. Couldn't seem to find the cause, or eliminate it. Obviously a ground-loop hum, apparently very typical with the use of a large number RCA cable analog connections. Some device is probably the culprit but it's very tough to find it, and then what would you do anyway if you needed it.

Eventually somebody suggested using a simple "3-prong to 2-prong riser (as I called it)", to "lift" ground from the power plug on the cord going from the Stax amp to my power strip in order to eliminate. I was terrified to do this, leaving my Stax amp ungrounded. Nevertheless I tried it... and like magic the hum was gone!

That was about 15 years ago now, and I've moved on at this equipment rack from an A8 to an A16, from an SR-Omega/SRM-T1S to an SR-009/SRM-007tII, from a "mostly analog" Yamaha RX-V863 to a "mostly digital" Yamaha RX-A1080, and also to no longer using the RCA outputs of the Realiser but instead using optical->DAC->XLR->Stax.

Of course using the optical output of the A16 and thus completely eliminating any RCA input to the Stax amp probably is today sufficient to guarantee that any possible ground loop hum couldn't possibly exist. Nevertheless, to this very day I still have that "riser" in place on my power strip, "lifting" the power plug coming from my Stax amp so that I actually do not have it grounded. I'm probably doing a bad bad thing, but it's just something I've never changed.


Second idea...

I've previously described a similar ground loop hum story when I was trying to capture a 2.0 PRIR in my car using my A8, in order to be able to listen through headphones what the audio system in my car sounded like. I had purchased a 12VDC-120VAC power gizmo (plugged into the cigarette lighter of the car) that we could plug the A8 into. And I had RCA connections from the analog output of the A8 going to the AUX "stereo" 3.5mm input of my car's audio system. And I had an impossible ground loop hum, making measurement impossible. We tried using an external power outlet on the wall in the garage instead of the power gizmo, but that didn't stop the hum. Again, there was obviously a ground loop hum stemming from the use of the RCA cables coming out of the A8's analog outputs.

I then invested in a small portable A-to-D unit with RCA input and optical/coax output, as well as a small portable D-to-A unit which had optical/coax input and RCA output. Prices for these were quite reasonable. I connected the two with an optical cable. So this was like a conceptual "ground loop hum eliminator" in a home RG6 coaxial cable situation (again subject to ground loop like an RCA cable), that uses an RF intermediate break-out box to go from coax/copper to RF and then back to coax/copper, physically eliminating the ground shield component coming through the original coax from source to destination. My pair of A-to-D and D-to-A boxes connected by an optical cable is identical in concept.

And, sure enough, using this pair of gizmos to feed the A8's analog outputs to my car's AUX input did the trick! No more hum, and we actually could now do the PRIR capture.


YMMV.

Really stupid question, but you can use the optical out of the A16 to get multichannel audio, even though it's supposed to be limited to 2.0ch output?
I assumed it would just output the signal as stereo, but that you would hear the A16 as normal, but then was dissuaded of that notion last night.

However, last night I also actually tried using the optical out just to see if I could eliminate the hum that way as well, and I can't even get any sound from it at all that way. Nothing from the standard toslink output from A or B, and not from the outputs above using an adapter. The amp I am sending it to accepts digital just fine too.

Regardless, I don't have any hum with my A8 at all. It's just the A16.

 

[dsperber]

Really stupid question, but you can use the optical out of the A16 to get multichannel audio, even though it's supposed to be limited to 2.0ch output?
I assumed it would just output the signal as stereo, but that you would hear the A16 as normal, but then was dissuaded of that notion last night.

However, last night I also actually tried using the optical out just to see if I could eliminate the hum that way as well, and I can't even get any sound from it at all that way. Nothing from the standard toslink output from A or B, and not from the outputs above using an adapter. The amp I am sending it to accepts digital just fine too.

Regardless, I don't have any hum with my A8 at all. It's just the A16.

The optical output carries the still-digital SVS-processed signal which would otherwise be fed to the internal A16 DAC and A16 internal 2.0 amp, to then go out through the analog headphone-out jacks on the back and front. It is unrelated to anything multi-channel. It is simply to feed that still-digital optical-form SVS output destined for your own external DAC which would then feed its analog output via RCA or XLR to your own external headphone amp.

If your external amp accepts optical digital input directly (like soundbars do, but also supporting multi-channel optical input), then it must have its own built-in DAC. Most of us who use this arrangement have a standalone external DAC which is fed via 2.0 optical from the A16, and then in turn the DAC feeds your analog-input headphone amp via RCA or XLR. But if your amp accepts optical input then you should certainly have heard sound from it using that arrangement... which would have been the SVS-processed output of the A16. It is 2.0 PCM via optical.

 

[audiohobbit]

I do enjoy loud concerts, but I usually wear hearing protection

That's a good advice. Rock concerts are waaay louder than cinemas. At least those that I know here in Germany.

I find movies in theaters in the US to be unpleasantly loud

Unfortunately i can not compare this. Never been to the US and it's doubtful if I ever get there.

In the article that you linked, I think they confuse (A)-weighted with linear SPL. All the SPLs they are talking about concerning damage of the hearing (and also long time exposure at work places etc.) are A-weighted. I think you all know those weighting curves?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-weighting

Movies are usually loud in the bass. But a 100 Hz tone with (non weighted, linear) 105 dB registers using the A-weighting only with 85 dB. And the lower the bass, the greater the difference. Low bass at very high volumes is not very dangerous to the hearing. But sounds in the mid-to-high frequencies at 100 dB for example, those are very dangerous, and this you have at rock concerts and clubs.

I have no concern listening to movies at the volume levels I do. Unfortunately I can not measure the SPL in my ear.
When years ago I had the opportunity to play loud with speakers and subwoofers, I measured a lot. Without weighting I easily reached 110 dB, but in the bass. When I switched the meter to A-rating I rarely got over 90 dB.

Concerning modern movies and especially trailers and commercials: Especially those last two fight a loudness war, as the music industry does (or did?) or radio stations. Meaning they more and more compress the dynamics and then just everything is loud. With trailers I sometimes experience this also in cinemas here in Germany, but usually the main feature is then ok.
Unfortunately also the streaming platforms fight this loudness war, Disney+ is here one of the worst as it seems.

 

[VandyMan]

In the article that you linked, I think they confuse (A)-weighted with linear SPL.

It is possible that article is not totally correct. I don't really know if movie theaters in the US are using unsafe volume levels or not. I mainly quoted the article because the opening paragraph is something that I very much relate to: "If you’ve ever left a movie theater and felt like your ears had taken a beating, you’re not imagining things."

 

[sander99]

last night I also actually tried using the optical out ... and I can't even get any sound from it at all that way.

@noc1009 had the same issue a few weeks ago, but it mysteriously worked the next day.

When I tried it again today it mysteriously worked instantly. Maybe it had to be booted up with the opt cable already plugged in.

@Sanctuary: if you plug an optical cable into the A16 optical output, can you see red light on the other side of the cable?

 

[audiohobbit]

Can you see the (red) light at the end of the tunnel cable....?

"If you’ve ever left a movie theater and felt like your ears had taken a beating, you’re not imagining things."

I can not remember that this ever happened to me. After concerts, yes. Or evenings in the club (when I was younger and they still let me in... )

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Can you see the (red) light at the end of the tunnel cable....?


I can not remember that this ever happened to me. After concerts, yes. Or evenings in the club (when I was younger and they still let me in... )

Try after a Who concert.

 

[Sanctuary]

if you plug an optical cable into the A16 optical output, can you see red light on the other side of the cable?

John asked the same thing last night. I know you both are trying to help, but I'm not that helpless.

As it turned out however, the SPDIFs were working correctly, and it appears that my Amp/DAC somehow doesn't actually decode whatever the A16 is outputting, yet it seems to work just fine with other optical sources. I ended up running an optical cable from the A16 to another component that I use daily that I know can decode bitstreaming and I'm getting audio from that. So the whole "optical isn't working" seemed to be a false alarm.

This still doesn't really help with the main reason I was even bothering with that in the first place, which was to see if I could even get audio from the A16 to my amp without the annoying hum.

edit: Seems like it must be something in the analog stage with my RCA cables. I never tried using just Coax since I thought I had given my single cable away as I didn't really have much use for it anymore, but I found it, it worked just fine with my amp, and there is absolutely zero hum, no matter how much volume is added. Really don't know why Toslink wasn't working with my amp, but Coax does. Oh well.

Was looking at the "World's Best" cables earlier today, and those are pretty expensive for just two feet. Would grab one if I knew for sure it was simply an RCA cable/shielding problem, and that the cables I do have just have lousy shielding. Not really sure what else it could be though. Doesn't really explain why none of the other devices using RCA cables exhibited no hum though. Just the A16.

edit2: Hmm, it must be a grounding issue somewhere that isn't explicitly related to the cables. I never really had any reason to do this, but with the amp off, plugged in for power, but without running any cables into it other than the headphones, I can clearly hear a hum with it off. Until I touch it, then the hum goes away. However, if I plug it into the A16 with either Coax or RCA, with both still off there is no hum. Then, when I turn on the A16, the hum returns after a certain volume when using RCA, but not Coax.

 

[zdjh22]

edit2: Hmm, it must be a grounding issue somewhere that isn't explicitly related to the cables. I never really had any reason to do this, but with the amp off, plugged in for power, but without running any cables into it other than the headphones, I can clearly hear a hum with it off. Until I touch it, then the hum goes away. However, if I plug it into the A16 with either Coax or RCA, with both still off there is no hum. Then, when I turn on the A16, the hum returns after a certain volume when using RCA, but not Coax.

Do I understand correctly - with the headphone amp powered off, with the only connections being the power cord and your headphones, you can hear a hum (in the headphones? That’s a bit disturbing since it implies that the output stage of the headphone amp is active even while (ostensibly) powered off. That would seem to be worse than a simple ground loop. I suppose with super high impedance / high sensitivity headphones you could pick up 60-cycle hum with a good enough antenna/ground loop, but you said you were using a pair of HD800s I believe? If you’ve got an ohmmeter you might want to measure from the ground and neutral power input connectors to the headphone outputs with everything unplugged, in case there’s a bad transformer or other short.

I meant to reply to an earlier comment about the coax connection. You can get away with just a composite video cable (usually yellow ends) for coax S/PDIF. I’ve even gotten away with a very short ordinary (analog audio) RCA cable, but with any impedance mismatch with a longer cable you need either a S/PDIF coax or a composite video cable instead. Those video cables are dirt cheap, and easily achieve 6 MHz bandwidth, plenty for most S/PDIF (but not for 24bit/192KHz).

 

[Litlgi74]

You can get away with just a composite video cable (usually yellow ends) for coax S/PDIF. You can get away with just a composite video cable (usually yellow ends) for coax S/PDIF. I’ve even gotten away with a very short ordinary (analog audio) RCA cable, but with any impedance mismatch with a longer cable you need either a S/PDIF coax or a composite video cable instead.

Watch it... I told him that as well.

 

[Sanctuary]

Do I understand correctly - with the headphone amp powered off, with the only connections being the power cord and your headphones, you can hear a hum (in the headphones? That’s a bit disturbing since it implies that the output stage of the headphone amp is active even while (ostensibly) powered off. That would seem to be worse than a simple ground loop. I suppose with super high impedance / high sensitivity headphones you could pick up 60-cycle hum with a good enough antenna/ground loop, but you said you were using a pair of HD800s I believe? If you’ve got an ohmmeter you might want to measure from the ground and neutral power input connectors to the headphone outputs with everything unplugged, in case there’s a bad transformer or other short.

Yes, that's what I am talking about. That's only with my 1990s though. Can't hear it with the HD800s. As soon as I connect any cable to one of the inputs of the amp and the A16, it stops.

When powered on (but only while connected to the A16 that is also on), the hum returns above a volume of 3 (of 16 max) on my amp with the 1990s, and 10 with the HD800s. This is only noticeable at all during the quietest of scenes however. If powered on while connected to the A16 that is off, there is no hum no matter the volume. The hum with the A16 powered on is only with the RCA connections.

When using Coax, the hum is gone entirely with the A16 on, no matter the volume of the amp.

I've also tried three different outlets. One from my UPS, another from just a "surge protector" strip and then also just directly to the wall and it made no difference.

Also, this isn't with just one amp. The primary one is solid state, and my other is a tube amp, and the tube amp has the same problem with the A16 when powered on, but nothing else.

Just for the hell of it, I went ahead and tried my DT 880s (600 ohm ver), even though I'll never use them with this setup. They also do not exhibit the hum while the amp is powered off, only the 1990s.