[Sanctuary]

PS... While the headphones are wireless... they are less than ideal sounding. They also tend to creak with the slightest head movements. I prefer to use the HD800s or my IEMs with the machine.

That's putting it mildly.
They're decent enough to show off what the unit can do, and they can be used in conjunction with a wired pair for two-person simultaneous use (should that need ever arise), but I would never recommend them. They end up being very uncomfortable after about an hour, and they are very finicky with keeping a signal. They really demand a direct, non-interrupted line of sight, or you will get frequent drop outs. Mine have been in storage for over a decade now.

Would highly recommend using your own wired headphones, and if they are normally harder to drive headphones, you'll also want to use an external amp (using the headphone jack of the box). While you can technically get away from amping harder to drive headphones, you can clearly hear the difference when it struggles to adequately power them without one. It powers my DT1990s 250 Ohms without any problems however.

This box is in no way, shape or form a replacement for what the A8 and A16 can do, but even while having a working A16, I still use it daily anyway (been using it since around 2011).

What the A16 does, it does extremely well, but sometimes it does it too well for me. Similarly to how the HD800s work, the A16 can be super revealing, which means it doesn't "play nice" with lower quality content. I watch a lot of streaming shows, many of which are 5.1 anyway, and I find the A16 to be overkill, and sometimes it actively makes the lower bitrate audio very unpleasant to listen to. The Pioneer box tends to cover up many of the imperfections while still giving a really good out of head experience. Well, using semi-open, or open headphones at least. I've tried with IEMs and closed-back and find the effect to be severely muted. But I also don't use the box for music listening either, so YMMV.

It can decode Dolby Digital and DTS, but it's source dependent. If you want to use it with a TV, some TVs will pass that audio just fine, but they might require a specific optical setting to pass the signal. Some will work with "Auto", while some might require passthrough if they have it. Sometimes Auto might work, but then if you switch apps/channels it might stop working and only show up as Pro Logic II. Simply toggling the optical option of your TV should reset it. For mine, I just leave it set to passthrough.

It can also be used with the consoles that still have an optical out.

 

[zdjh22]

Pioneer SE-DIR800C... There is actually one on ebay. The seller is willing to accept an offer $55.

I have an old Sony DP-IF5100 virtual surround headphone controller and wireless headphones (IR, like the Pioneer) that was released a couple of years earlier, in 1999. They supported DTS 5.1, Dolby Digital 5.1 (AC3 I suppose?), and Dolby Pro Logic, all fed via an optical S/PDIF input or ordinary stereo RCA jacks (probably only capable of Pro Logic). Like the Pioneer it also had a wired headphone jack, but with a small amount of amplification and a volume knob. The wireless headphones were just OK, and as I recall when I got my first plasma TV in 2003 or so the IR receiver was very sensitive to emissions from that Panasonic. Surround effects with wired headphones were pretty good.

Prior to getting an A16, I tried a set of Sony DP-HW700 virtual surround headphones (EBay, about $150 or so), and a SteelSeries Arctis Nova set. The Sony (2014) supports the full gamut from DTS to TrueHD, and includes both DTS Neo:X and Dolby Pro Logic IIz 9.1. It has 3 HDMI-IN and 1 HDMI-OUT, plus optical S/PDIF IN and OUT plus analog RCA. The surround effects are quite good, with both gaming and cinema modes, with upconversion on demand to 9.1. Unfortunately it only supports the included Sony RF wireless headphones, and for music those aren’t the greatest. Worse, despite having both 2.4 and 5 GHz bands available, when my WiFi router is on (a Starlink mesh node) the headphones pick up noise from the router. With the router off they are fine, and I find them good for gaming (PS4).

The SteelSeries Arctis Nova is USB (dual switchable) or analog (3.5mm in/out) only, and it relies on the host to provide multichannel virtualization. It does come with a very good pair of wired headphones (with noise cancelling mic built-in), plus a dedicated app for Windows (and support for PS4, PS5, and Switch). Nice for multichannel music, but not much of a soundstage. You can use your own wired headphones to improve on the sound a bit. Fine for quad and 5.1 using FOOBAR2000, but you are entirely dependent on the Windows sound system plus the SteelSeries app. My go to system for audio in Windows.

Nothing compares to an A16, of course, even with my FW 2.15 only hardware (the measured PRIR / HPEQ for my music/theatre room works great). The only thing that comes close that I’ve tried is the Virtuoso software with a headtracker, which sadly is much easier on a Mac (built-in Atmos renderer in OSX, no problem playing Atmos movies ripped to MKV or DD+ from Apple Music). Virtuoso does work on Windows, but you have to, ahem, come up with the Dolby Reference Player to render TrueHD Atmos; music is very good, but cinema is a challenge compared to OSX. I suspect that if you go to the trouble of obtaining your own personal HRTF the out-of-head experience on Virtuoso will be excellent; YMMV with the 3 supplied HRTFs. It does come with a very large set of listening rooms and speaker configurations, and the virtualization parameters (room dimensions, reverb, dampening) are adjustable. You can probably use Impulcifer for the HRTF, or 3D photos of your head and ears with mesh2hrtf (I haven’t tried either). Currently no option to supply your own soundroom measurements. My go to system for audio and video in OSX. [Edit: I mispoke in that I suspect Impulcifer really just measures an HRIR, A16-style (in ear microphones, at least one speaker), not an HRTF, and so also captures/convolves room effects and nuances of the speakers used.]

As far as price goes, I gather the Pioneer 2001-era phones will be less than $100 used, as would the 1999 Sony headphones. Virtuoso comes in at $99 plus whatever you want to spend on a headtracker ($15-$30 for DIY, about $100 for Waves NX or Supperware). The 2014 Sony headphones (I can’t recommended for music, but OK for gaming and cinema) are something like $150-$200 used. The SteelSeries headphones are about $210.

 

[Litlgi74]

What the A16 does, it does extremely well, but sometimes it does it too well for me.

BLASPHEMY!!!

 

[Sanctuary]

I have an old Sony DP-IF5100 virtual surround headphone controller and wireless headphones (IR, like the Pioneer) that was released a couple of years earlier, in 1999. They supported DTS 5.1, Dolby Digital 5.1 (AC3 I suppose?), and Dolby Pro Logic, all fed via an optical S/PDIF input or ordinary stereo RCA jacks (probably only capable of Pro Logic). Like the Pioneer it also had a wired headphone jack, but with a small amount of amplification and a volume knob. The wireless headphones were just OK, and as I recall when I got my first plasma TV in 2003 or so the IR receiver was very sensitive to emissions from that Panasonic. Surround effects with wired headphones were pretty good.

Prior to getting an A16, I tried a set of Sony DP-HW700 virtual surround headphones (EBay, about $150 or so), and a SteelSeries Arctis Nova set. The Sony (2014) supports the full gamut from DTS to TrueHD, and includes both DTS Neo:X and Dolby Pro Logic IIz 9.1. It has 3 HDMI-IN and 1 HDMI-OUT, plus optical S/PDIF IN and OUT plus analog RCA. The surround effects are quite good, with both gaming and cinema modes, with upconversion on demand to 9.1. Unfortunately it only supports the included Sony RF wireless headphones, and for music those aren’t the greatest. Worse, despite having both 2.4 and 5 GHz bands available, when my WiFi router is on (a Starlink mesh node) the headphones pick up noise from the router. With the router off they are fine, and I find them good for gaming (PS4).

The SteelSeries Arctis Nova is USB (dual switchable) or analog (3.5mm in/out) only, and it relies on the host to provide multichannel virtualization. It does come with a very good pair of wired headphones (with noise cancelling mic built-in), plus a dedicated app for Windows (and support for PS4, PS5, and Switch). Nice for multichannel music, but not much of a soundstage. You can use your own wired headphones to improve on the sound a bit. Fine for quad and 5.1 using FOOBAR2000, but you are entirely dependent on the Windows sound system plus the SteelSeries app. My go to system for audio in Windows.

Nothing compares to an A16, of course, even with my FW 2.15 only hardware (the measured PRIR / HPEQ for my music/theatre room works great). The only thing that comes close that I’ve tried is the Virtuoso software with a headtracker, which sadly is much easier on a Mac (built-in Atmos rendererer in OSX, no problem playing Atmos movies ripped to MKV or DD+ from Apple Music). Virtuoso does work on Windows, but you have to, ahem, come up with the Dolby Reference Player to render TrueHD Atmos; music is very good, but cinema is a challenge compared to OSX. I suspect that if you go to the trouble of obtaining your own personal HRTF the out-of-head experience on Virtuoso will be excellent; YMMV with the 3 supplied HRTFs. It does come with a very large set of listening rooms and speaker configurations, and the virtualization parameters (room dimensions, reverb, dampening) are adjustable. You can probably use Impulcifer for the HRTF, or 3D photos of your head and ears with mesh2hrtf (I haven’t tried either). Currently no option to supply your own soundroom measurements. My go to system for audio and video in OSX.

As far as price goes, I gather the Pioneer 2001-era phones will be less than $100 used, as would the 1999 Sony headphones. Virtuoso comes in at $99 plus whatever you want to spend on a headtracker ($15-$30 for DIY, about $100 for Waves NX or Supperware). The 2014 Sony headphones (I can’t recommended for music, but OK for gaming and cinema) are something like $150-$200 used. The SteelSeries headphones are about $210.

Not all virtualization algorithms are created equal. I have one of the Sony boxes, but the one I have does not allow for wired headphones and you're stuck using their closed-back wireless headphones unfortunately. Their virtualization never sounded good to me, and the positional accuracy was really poor. Maybe it would have sounded better with some wired headphones, but I don't see how since I can already get a somewhat adequate comparison by just using the Pioneer box with the included headphones.

The only thing that has surpassed Dolby Headphone for me with immersive audio (other than obviously the A8/A16) would be the old Aureal-3D cards on PC. Until the A8, they were probably the most accurate you could get over headphones, but seemed to be exclusively limited to games, and even then there weren't many that took advantage of what they could do.

For those interested:

 

[AudioVice]

Wow... That sold quickly!

I added it to my collection haha.

 

[R GS]

Wow... That sold quickly!

Yeah . Thanks nonetheless, I'll keep an eye open for another cheap pair in the future. For the price, it's worth getting just to play with (although, I agree, not with the Pioneer HP).

 

[Litlgi74]

Yeah . Thanks nonetheless, I'll keep an eye open for another cheap pair in the future. For the price, it's worth getting just to play with (although, I agree, not with the Pioneer HP).

Add the seller to your favorites... he has two more sets he will be selling.

 

[Eich1eeF]

You might contact the French business partner of Smyth Research at av-in.com, if you live in Europe. There will be an audio video show in Paris on 21-22 October 2023.

Last time I checked, Gilles was the distributor for France and Belgium, and wasn't willing (or allowed?) to sell A16s or even the upgrades elsewhere.

 

[Eich1eeF]

I will probably give it a try tomorrow.

Although I do have the .mp4 Atmos files from Club Realiser, I also have the bunch of async wav files from the Google drive folder mentioned upthread (and I can repost the link if you need). I can’t seem to reliably play MCH wav or FLAC files from my Oppo or Denon, but using my laptop and feeding the Denon via HDMI does work. I say that because there’s a handy set of FLAC files with different data rates, bit sizes, and channel numbers at Quadraphonicquad, where a voice identifies different speakers; these fail in weird ways on my setup, such as missing or incorrect speaker IDs (but not with VLC on my laptop - they all work from there). There is also a 7.1 Atmos file (Mkv) that IDs speakers there from Dolby that works on all of my source electronics, so I definitely have more confidence in Atmos async files.

The async wav files floating around in the google drive as far as I have seen were really weird, which is why I contacted Gilles in the first place to get my hands on proper async files. I didn't have a Realiser (still don't have one) or even an Atmos setup back then, so I was unable to test if they work anyway, but I would still assume that they are not useful. There should be an mkv or mp4 that I've made with the same script and process as the async files Gilles sells that announces/identifies all 9.1.6 speakers.

 

[GeorgeA]

Last time I checked, Gilles was the distributor for France and Belgium, and wasn't willing (or allowed?) to sell A16s or even the upgrades elsewhere.

I dared to recommend contacting Gilles Gerin as he is maybe the most visible person promoting the Realiser A16. There’s no clear statement at Smyth Research site who are their dealers across Europe or elsewhere.

At av-in.com site, according to the General conditions for mail order sales of the Realiser A16 by AV-in and the AV-in store: the products purchased are delivered to mainland France, Corsica and Monaco.

I think that certain restrictions in Europe (European Union) are not quite in line with the aims and values of the European Union. “EU ensures free movement of goods, services, capital and persons in a single EU internal market. By removing technical, legal and bureaucratic barriers, the EU also allows citizens to trade and do business freely”.

 

[mrmac]

Hi all,

I have a quick question for the hive mind. If I use the a16 in AV mode. IE, as a surround processor. Is there a way to adjust gain levels between speakers?

Thanks!

 

[shmau]

Hi all,

I have a quick question for the hive mind. If I use the a16 in AV mode. IE, as a surround processor. Is there a way to adjust gain levels between speakers?

Thanks!

You cannot, and you also cannot have individual delays for each speaker. The A16 alone is therefore not really capable of being a full blown processor. I have the AES model which is connected to two Okto Research dac8 PROs. The dac8 PROs are connected to a mac mini which receives the signal from the dac8 as USB audio, manipulates it as needed and then outputs it back to the dac8 for analog output.

The Dante model would be much more flexible as far as connectivity options go so it would definitely be my choice today.

 

[mrmac]

Thanks for that @shmau, that was what I expected.

Well, if I had a digital outputting A16 there is many options out there. The MiniDSP DDRC 88D would be pretty cool. That can add Dirac on all 8 channels. And then off to a dac8 (ideally…)

Thanks again!

 

[shmau]

Thanks for that @shmau, that was what I expected.

Well, if I had a digital outputting A16 there is many options out there. The MiniDSP DDRC 88D would be pretty cool. That can add Dirac on all 8 channels. And then off to a dac8 (ideally…)

Thanks again!

The HDMI output on all models should allegedly contain 8ch of decoded audio, however I've never tried it. So technically you do have digital outputs up to 8ch.

 

[sander99]

The HDMI output on all models should allegedly contain 8ch of decoded audio, however I've never tried it. So technically you do have digital outputs up to 8ch.

No, that was the original plan but the hdmi board that was used for the first production model didn't allow it. I learned that in a mail exchange with Mike Smyth long ago.