[Dixter]

got a little bored last night so I decided to tackle the IP Command Server https://smyth-research.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/A16-IP-command-server-May-2020-1.pdf

and actually once I got it working I can see where it could have some good value.. right now its limited in functions but the Smyths did indicate it could be made better at a later date as in you could use it while sitting in a chair and performing the PRIR routines from an ipad.... that would be great to have

I used an older ipad mini for setting this up and it seems to work pretty good... if you have trouble reading the small screen of the A16 from across the room then you should like this option...
reading the document can be a little dry but they do explain it and added content that you may or may not care about... as in they ramble quite a bit, but its better to have too much info than not enough info.. so all if good in the end....

the short version:
1. Open your home router and look to see what IP address isn't being used... for example 192.168.254.66 is what I chose.. the 66 being the key here
2. Plug in a ethernet cable to the A16... settings...Network...change the address to 192.168.254.66 and turn on TCP command server...
3. load the ipad with the Centrocontrol app from the app store(its free)... then point the ipad camera to the QR code to load the A16 code
4. goto the ipad settings... scroll to centrocontrol to set the address to 192.168.254.66 and channel 4101
5. run the centrocontrol app and it connects on its own and wala... you now have the display of your A16 looking back at you from your ipad....

one nice item is one of the screens has 12 buttons and each button is there for you to switch virtual rooms... so you can flip back and forth to different setups easily to compare... so you can have 12 different speaker setups just there to select on your ipad.... pretty cool function...

 

[Dixter]

Yes, you do want to buy from John. He's extremely precise in his approach, and captures excellent speakers in a professional studio, so yes, a definite cut above everything else out there IMHO.

I have to respond to this... so while I was testing out the IP Command server last night there is the option of switching the virtual rooms by clicking on one of the 12 selections...
I have always liked the PRIRs that come with the A16 because they are done so well and it shows off the A16 pretty well..... but, the 2 PRIRs that come standard with the A16 are Studio captures...so they are and should be flat sounding/precise and the PRIRs that John has created are a true sound listening room and they sound just like you went to a high end audio shop and you were sitting in a demo room with these fantastic speakers playing back your favorite music or movies ... I am a big fan of Johns work... this is what makes the A16 so cool is we have the ability to sit in our living rooms and we can just switch on 1 or 100's of different listening rooms and setups and they sound amazing... and of course we have the shared PRIRs that are very good too... it don't get much better than this guys...

 

[Dixter]

All of my PRIRs have been done in a smaller room, and sound fine. I used 12 seconds with no overlap and 15 degree look angles (2) which seem to generate excellent results, but are more time consuming. I would not recommend overlap as it will create interactions between (among) the speakers, which I don't know why you would want.

In the FAQ they mention that they use the overlap simply because it takes less time to perform the PRIR during the demo shows so they can get more people thru the process ???

 

[Dixter]

I guess all of you with A16's already knew this but it was a surprise to me - as of Firmware 2.03 the SPDIF inputs still won't lock onto signals greater than 48x24.

I can't say for sure if the Smyths will offer a firmware update but this is what I found out from Gilles....

"
Your questions: "is the A16 Hi-Res? "
No, not officially. Remember that this is a license, and not a qualifier free of rights. Then, the A16 does not currently meet the specifications of the JEITA which manages this license. Because, if it performs all its calculations in 32-bit floating point (dynamics of 144 dB) for an optimal rendering in 24 bits, it works at the sampling frequency of 48 Khz, like its predecessor Realiser A8. However, the 96 Khz required by "Hi-Res" will be added by software update. However, to take full advantage of it, in addition to adequate sources, it will require room captures (PRIR) at 96 kHz. Furthermore, doubling the calculations will require either sacrificing a user or reducing the number of channels processed simultaneously (for example from 16 to 8). Which, for music (96 kHz majority source), is quite sufficient. "

 

[Camano]

Your questions: "is the A16 Hi-Res? "

I understand that everything is processed internally at 48k, but the original A16 specification says that 96k and 192k will be downsampled and they aren't. Some Qobuz new albums are only available in higher resolutions than 48k, making them unplayable unless I force my player to downsample to CD resolution. My workaround is to use the analog outputs from the player. (Page 11: SPDIF inputs (coaxial and optical): 2ch LPCM (24bit@48/96/192kHz) and Dolby Digital bitstream"

 

[Camano]

I'm experiencing some Mute User A/User B display weirdness on firmware 2.03. I'm comparing headphones, one on each output.

Summary

1. If output B is muted and the PB screen is displayed before the PA button is pressed, the PA display shows that it is muted even though it isn't.
2. The only way to fix the PA display is to unmute "B".
3. Same occurs if "A" and "B" are reversed.

Details:

• If I'm on the PB display and press the "Mute B" button on the remote, B output mutes and the PB display shows the muted "X".
• A output is still playing BUT when I push the PA button to switch to the PA display the display shows the same muted "X" symbol, but output A is not muted.
• Pressing the "Mute A" button mutes output A but the PA display doesn't change, still shows muted.
• Pressing "Mute A" again unmutes output A, but the PA display still shows muted.
• Pressing "Mute B" changes the PA display to show unmuted and output B is unmuted.
• If I press "Mute B" while on the PA display, the B output mutes and the PA display shows unmuted (as it should)"
• Now If I press "PB" followed by "PA", now the PA display now shows muted even through it isn't and I haven't touched either of the "Mute" buttons.

Is this something new that I should report?

 

[dsperber]

No updated documentation to refer to, and no Release Notes yet for firmware updates 2.01, 2.02, 2.03 or 2.04. So I was just kind of flying blind, to set up my DTS listening rooms. Nevertheless, it all seemed to go just fine. I've now reset my Oppo 203 to simply pass HDMI audio out using "bitstream" to the A16, rather than doing the decoding and passing HDMI audio via LPCM. Likewise with my Roku Ultra, Shield Tube, and ATV4K, which feed their HDMI audio/video output through the A16 to my AVR.

Here is what my ABOUT looks like:

The only disc I have that actually has a DTS soundtrack (5.1 Digital Surround) audio is the fabulous 1994 "Hell Freezes Over" DVD by the Eagles. Turns out Lorr Kramer was part of the engineering team for the disc when he was still worked for DTS (before leaving DTS to join Steven Smyth et.al. to form Smyth-Research).

Anyway, apparently DTS is technologically different than Dolby Atmos although both are "object oriented" audio processing systems. So the room/speaker configurations are different, as spelled out in charts 11.1 and 11.2 of the 0.91 User Manual. I ended up building three DTS rooms: 5.1.4h, 7.1.4h, and 9.1.2h. I arbitrarily decided to use the "h" speakers rather than the "t" speakers, just because I had to choose one or the other of these virtual speaker types that I was going to grab from the BBC room.

I built the rooms the same way I built the Atmos rooms, namely by starting with all relevant speakers copied from the Smyth-provided BBC room, and then overlaying the 5.1 or 7.1 ear-level speakers with my 5.1 or 7.1 AIX PRIRs.

Here is the resulting A16 speaker map and corresponding audio meter presentation, for the three DTS rooms while playing that "Hell Freezes Over" DVD. Note that the DTS 5.1 Digital Surround audio from 1994 is not today's DTS:x, but rather uses the DTS: Neural X up-mixer in order to fabricate audio through the additional "height" virtual speakers.

Knowing that the underlying source is only 5.1 (which I've always listened to as 5.1 LPCM via decoding by the Oppo 203) I have to say that I probably prefer this "basic" true original 5.1 audio played through a straight 5.1.0 room, rather than through what I feel to be an artificial 5.1.4 or 7.1.4 or 9.1.2 creation. Maybe it's just subjective, but I feel the extra virtual speakers implemented through the Neural:X upmixing to not add anything that I would describe as terrific. It's just "extra sound". Call me a purist, but I prefer the original 5.1 audio, either from the Oppo or now produced by the A16... without any additional virtual speakers.

 

[GeorgeA]

...........
The only disc I have that actually has a DTS soundtrack (5.1 Digital Surround) audio is the fabulous 1994 "Hell Freezes Over" DVD by the Eagles...............
............................
Knowing that the underlying source is only 5.1 (which I've always listened to as 5.1 LPCM via decoding by the Oppo 203) I have to say that I probably prefer this "basic" true original 5.1 audio played through a straight 5.1.0 room, rather than through what I feel to be an artificial 5.1.4 or 7.1.4 or 9.1.2 creation.................

You can test your A16 unit for DTS:X by downloading sample clips at the following link:
https://kodi.wiki/view/Samples

I second your opinion that only 6 virtual speakers are needed for rendering original 5.1 DTS audio.

 

[dsperber]

You can test your A16 unit for DTS:X by downloading sample clips at the following link:
https://kodi.wiki/view/Samples

Thank you for this tip. I will grab a few and play them.

I've also placed an order for the UHD 4K BluRay of "Apollo 13" and "Ex Machina". both of which I enjoyed when they were out in theaters. They both have a DTS:x sound option.

If you're interested I've uploaded one sample clip of my own ("Pretty Maids All In A Row") which is my favorite song from "Hell Freezes Over", in that old lossy 5.1 DTS Digital Surround from 1994. This can be used to demonstrate the difference in sound from straight 5.1 decoding, to DTS:x Neural up-mixing to 5.1.4h/t or 7.1.4h/t or 9.1.2h.

 

[GeorgeA]

Thanks for the sample clip of Pretty Maids All in A Row. I look forward to listening it as soon as Smyth Research start selling firmware update for DTS:X.

 

[dsperber]

Thanks for the sample clip of Pretty Maids All in A Row. I look forward to listening it as soon as Smyth Research start selling firmware update for DTS:X.

Enjoy.

I point out that there are two audio streams on the clip: (1) 2-channel PCM, and (2) 5.1 DTS. So when you play it back, either on your computer or eventually through A16, be sure to select the DTS audio stream option.

 

[KMann]

I have to respond to this... so while I was testing out the IP Command server last night there is the option of switching the virtual rooms by clicking on one of the 12 selections...
I have always liked the PRIRs that come with the A16 because they are done so well and it shows off the A16 pretty well..... but, the 2 PRIRs that come standard with the A16 are Studio captures...so they are and should be flat sounding/precise and the PRIRs that John has created are a true sound listening room and they sound just like you went to a high end audio shop and you were sitting in a demo room with these fantastic speakers playing back your favorite music or movies ... I am a big fan of Johns work... this is what makes the A16 so cool is we have the ability to sit in our living rooms and we can just switch on 1 or 100's of different listening rooms and setups and they sound amazing... and of course we have the shared PRIRs that are very good too... it don't get much better than this guys...

Regarding John, I recently acquired a A16 from a friend of mine who was finding very little use for A16.

Some background:
I have a 7.2.4 setup at home and my primary intent with A16 was for movies, not for music (while with A8, I have was able to replicate my 2ch setup, when it came to the ultimate fidelity, I still preferred my real 2ch setup. For up to 8 Ch and I already have my own HRTF for a 8 Ch setup measured at my ear drum using fiber optic probes and do my own mixdown using Jriver and VST plugins. So A8 is collecting dust for now.

I had been eying A16 for a while and I was waiting for the FW to mature and also stabilize, and I have been following this thread. Dolby Atmos at 24Ch, to me is the biggest selling point on A16 beyond what I already have, it will provide me with the convenience of watching Netflix/Amazon Prime/Disney+ from the comfort of my home office, sitting 1m away from a 42inch 4k monitor over the headphone, without worrying about disturbing anyone. and I turn on my sub for some tactile feedback.

3DSoundShop:
However, what kept me from acquiring a A16 was the lack of personal PRIRs, it is relatively easy to acquire 8ch PRIR, but 24ch Dolby is a order of magnitude more complex. Based on my past experience generic PRIRs and those measured by others (no disrespect to those who did it), I was quite skeptical that A16 will be of any use to me without my own measurements. Then I came across 3DsoundShop, and got to try many of the demos they had. though they were not perfect, they were better than any of the (non personal) PRIRs I had used before. There was no front-back confusion and the localization of all channels were quite good, and to my ears they sounded like the sound appeared to arrive from about 1.5m (the center channel is an exception, which was about 1m which is quite hard to nail without head tracking).

What I liked about the demos where they were quite consistent across the many speakers they had and the quality was great (clean, not much reverb but not dead either). I also saw that there may be an option to do personal PRIR measurements (and I will be the first in line when that happens). So the existence of 3DSoundShop was the single most important reason that convinced me to acquire a A16.

I have had multiple conversations with John (who runs 3DSoundShop), he has been patient in answering my questions and I only respect hem more after talking to him and understanding the level of attention to detail taht went behind making the measurements and the quality shows in both subjective listening and also in my objective measurements I made. After my first conversation with him, I bought three of the PRIRs (Focal, BW and Genlec). The jury is still out on what I prefer, but leaning toward Genlec for now.

What now:
I have had A16 for a few weeks now and have been learning it (I wish there were a more comprehensive user manual in English, and I would not mind paying to get one). For the time being, John was nice to answer a few questions I had. While A16 has quite the steep learning curve just like A8, I find it a bit more mature in terms of stability and also logically organized menu, so I think I got the hang of it without having to look at the manual.

I compared the built in rooms with 3DSoundShop PRIR, I prefer 3DsoundShop for both the distance perception and quality. The 3DSoundhsoopPRIRs present the virtual speakers in a more natural Spherical soundstage.

Going in I had realistic expectations, I was not expecting the PRIRs to be as good as my personal PRIRs, when I imported my 2Ch A8 PRIR into A16, I still prefer my personal PRIR, it had greater depth and a bit more realism, though Johns PRIR was bit more clean. What I expected from the PRIRs I bought was to offer reasonable depth and good localization for movies, which is what I got.

I read HPEQ and manLoud would improve things, so I tried HPEQ, but for some reason it turned out quite a bit wonky. Instead I just did manLoud EQ setting the HPEQ curve to flat. I plan to do a more detailed writeup on how I did the EQ (I took advantage of being able to measure the EQd PRIR). After I did the EQ, localization improved and the biggest change I heard was in the vertical channels and of course tonality was closer to where I prefer.

What next:
I plan to continue experimenting and I also plan to write a more detailed writeup on the measurements and HPEQ/manLoud. I am trying to figure out a easy way to replace the front two channels John's 13.1.10 PRIR with my own and also drop the center channel. Interestingly, when imported my PRIR they seemed to be magically level matched to John's PRIR.

Right now I am using Nvidia Shield Pro for Netflix/Amazon/Disney but for some reason Dolby Atmos never shows up (5.1 only) for amazon and Disney+, while with Xbox I have no such issues (I hate to steal the Xbox from my kids ). any suggestions to get Dolby Amos going on Nvidia Shield TV Pro for amazon and Disney+ is appreciated.

Disclaimers:
* Opinions expressed above are my personal opinions and do not constitute as an endorsement by Audeze of any of the mentioned products. I was not compensated in any form to do this either.
* PRIR are quite personaly, what works for me may not work for others, so it is best to try the demos.

 

[shmau]

Regarding John, I recently acquired a A16 from a friend of mine who was finding very little use for A16.

Some background:
I have a 7.2.4 setup at home and my primary intent with A16 was for movies, not for music (while with A8, I have was able to replicate my 2ch setup, when it came to the ultimate fidelity, I still preferred my real 2ch setup. For up to 8 Ch and I already have my own HRTF for a 8 Ch setup measured at my ear drum using fiber optic probes and do my own mixdown using Jriver and VST plugins. So A8 is collecting dust for now.

I had been eying A16 for a while and I was waiting for the FW to mature and also stabilize, and I have been following this thread. Dolby Atmos at 24Ch, to me is the biggest selling point on A16 beyond what I already have, it will provide me with the convenience of watching Netflix/Amazon Prime/Disney+ from the comfort of my home office, sitting 1m away from a 42inch 4k monitor over the headphone, without worrying about disturbing anyone. and I turn on my sub for some tactile feedback.

3DSoundShop:
However, what kept me from acquiring a A16 was the lack of personal PRIRs, it is relatively easy to acquire 8ch PRIR, but 24ch Dolby is a order of magnitude more complex. Based on my past experience generic PRIRs and those measured by others (no disrespect to those who did it), I was quite skeptical that A16 will be of any use to me without my own measurements. Then I came across 3DsoundShop, and got to try many of the demos they had. though they were not perfect, they were better than any of the (non personal) PRIRs I had used before. There was no front-back confusion and the localization of all channels were quite good, and to my ears they sounded like the sound appeared to arrive from about 1.5m (the center channel is an exception, which was about 1m which is quite hard to nail without head tracking).

What I liked about the demos where they were quite consistent across the many speakers they had and the quality was great (clean, not much reverb but not dead either). I also saw that there may be an option to do personal PRIR measurements (and I will be the first in line when that happens). So the existence of 3DSoundShop was the single most important reason that convinced me to acquire a A16.

I have had multiple conversations with John (who runs 3DSoundShop), he has been patient in answering my questions and I only respect hem more after talking to him and understanding the level of attention to detail taht went behind making the measurements and the quality shows in both subjective listening and also in my objective measurements I made. After my first conversation with him, I bought three of the PRIRs (Focal, BW and Genlec). The jury is still out on what I prefer, but leaning toward Genlec for now.

What now:
I have had A16 for a few weeks now and have been learning it (I wish there were a more comprehensive user manual in English, and I would not mind paying to get one). For the time being, John was nice to answer a few questions I had. While A16 has quite the steep learning curve just like A8, I find it a bit more mature in terms of stability and also logically organized menu, so I think I got the hang of it without having to look at the manual.

I compared the built in rooms with 3DSoundShop PRIR, I prefer 3DsoundShop for both the distance perception and quality. The 3DSoundhsoopPRIRs present the virtual speakers in a more natural Spherical soundstage.

Going in I had realistic expectations, I was not expecting the PRIRs to be as good as my personal PRIRs, when I imported my 2Ch A8 PRIR into A16, I still prefer my personal PRIR, it had greater depth and a bit more realism, though Johns PRIR was bit more clean. What I expected from the PRIRs I bought was to offer reasonable depth and good localization for movies, which is what I got.

I read HPEQ and manLoud would improve things, so I tried HPEQ, but for some reason it turned out quite a bit wonky. Instead I just did manLoud EQ setting the HPEQ curve to flat. I plan to do a more detailed writeup on how I did the EQ (I took advantage of being able to measure the EQd PRIR). After I did the EQ, localization improved and the biggest change I heard was in the vertical channels and of course tonality was closer to where I prefer.

What next:
I plan to continue experimenting and I also plan to write a more detailed writeup on the measurements and HPEQ/manLoud. I am trying to figure out a easy way to replace the front two channels John's 13.1.10 PRIR with my own and also drop the center channel. Interestingly, when imported my PRIR they seemed to be magically level matched to John's PRIR.

Right now I am using Nvidia Shield Pro for Netflix/Amazon/Disney but for some reason Dolby Atmos never shows up (5.1 only) for amazon and Disney+, while with Xbox i have no such issues (I hate to steal the Xbox from my kids ). any suggestions to get Dolby Amos going on Nvidia Shield TV Pro for amazon and Disney+ is appreciated.

Disclaimers:
* Opinions expressed above are my personal opinions and do not constitute as an endorsement by Audeze of any of the mentioned products. I was not compensated in any form to do this either.
* PRIR are quite personaly, what works for me may not work for others, so it is best to try the demos.

Reg. Shield and Atmos: What's your display device and how are things connected?

 

[KMann]

Reg. Shield and Atmos: What's your display device and how are things connected?

I have a 'Dell UltraSharp 43 4K USB-C Monitor - U4320Q' It does not support Dolby vision if that matters and the display setting is 4k 59.xHz in the Shield. The Shield connects to A16 and the monitor connects to the HDMI out of A16. For Audio I connect the optical out of A16 to my DAVE and A16 is powered by a 12v rail of Paul Hynes SR5T. (I know the latter does not matter, mentioning for completeness)

 

[shmau]

I have a 'Dell UltraSharp 43 4K USB-C Monitor - U4320Q' It does not support Dolby vision if that matters and the display setting is 4k 59.xHz in the Shield. The Shield connects to A16 and the monitor connects to the HDMI out of A16. For Audio I connect the optical out of A16 to my DAVE and A16 is powered by a 12v rail of Paul Hynes SR5T. (I know the latter does not matter, mentioning for completeness)

Disney+ on Shield ties Atmos to 4K HDR. You can't get it with SDR, which unless I'm mistaken your display is limited to. Likely similar reason for Amazon.