[phoenixdogfan]

Do you have the range of freq (upper register) which is targeted by the binaural process for creating the image localization of sound?
Also where are the boundaries for the sub low freq for the human ears to not be able to perceive directionality or localization of the sound source?

Have you tried and experiment that point?
Bc if that s the case then the Smyth BBC and Surrey room sub capture should sound the same.

This is from an article in Applied Science by Song Li and Jurgen Peissig. The article is entitled "Measurement of Head-Related Transfer Functions: A Review:"

"The frequency range of measured HRTFs depends not only on the excitation signal, but also on the transfer functions of electro-acoustic systems. Small or mid-size studio monitors, which are commonly used for measuring HRTFs with multi-channel loudspeaker systems, can not reproduce signals at low frequencies with sufficient power (e.g., below, 50 Hz, depending on the size of loudspeakers) . An anechoic chamber is usually used for HRTF measurements to simulate the free-field environment. In practice, the free-field condition can not be fulfilled at low frequencies (typically below 100–200 Hz), whose cut-off frequency depends on the length of absorption wedges mounted in the chamber. Moreover, the room modes of the anechoic chamber may also influence the measurement results at low frequencies. As a consequence, an appropriate manipulation should be considered for low-frequency HRTFs.
Besides the use of numerical solutions [185,186], some studies suggested to model the low-frequency HRTF with a flat magnitude and a linear phase, since the head and pinna barely have influences on magnitude spectra of HRTFs below 400 Hz..."

The article underscores that the head and pinnae do not affect the capture of an accurate HRTF much below 400 hz. Rather the most important thing is to get the bass correct (accurate FR, minimal room mode issues, extension, etc) in the room itself. This is why you will see so much emphasis in home theater magazines (and by Floyd Toole also) on multi sub bass, and using those extra subs to ameliorate or even eliminate room modes in the bass.

As for the Surry and BBC rooms, I'm mystified why you believe their bass should sound the same. More than any other set of frequencies bass is room dependent, and the Surry and BBC PRIRs were done in different rooms with possibly different subwoofers. Maybe some care was taken to optimize bass respone, then again, , maybe not.

In any case, perhaps my point is coming into clearer focus: A set of really good subs (a multi sub setup) optimized through careful placement, in a good room with treatment and some DSP on top of that together with subs that can play loud enough into the infrasonic---the capture of such a room would be a gold standard for headphone based bass, and it would be universally usable because it will sound the same in any HRTF.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Do you have the range of freq (upper register) which is targeted by the binaural process for creating the image localization of sound?
Also where are the boundaries for the sub low freq for the human ears to not be able to perceive directionality or localization of the sound source?

Have you tried and experiment that point?
Bc if that s the case then the Smyth BBC and Surrey room sub capture should sound the same?

It sure would be nice if you could get the Paradigm into the studio, along with the SB3000, and use both. I would use the SB 3000 (and possibly another sub if it could be borrowed) to ameliorate the two worst room modes and run all three out of the SW channel of the A16, and create a second channel with a center. Maybe use the Focal which you thought was your best center. When you're happy you have a product which can play all the way down to that 9hz and be relatively free of room nodes, sell that PRIR with just the two channels on it. I would certainly buy that, and, so would, I think, a lot of people on this thread.

 

[Litlgi74]

It sure would be nice if you could get the Paradigm into the studio, along with the SB3000, and use both. I would use the SB 3000 (and possibly another sub if it could be borrowed) to ameliorate the two worst room modes and run all three out of the SW channel of the A16, and create a second channel with a center.

I think this was meant for me... I have two Paradigm Seismic 12 SWs as well. They go down to 17Hz... If the Dutch and Dutch speakers ever get here... I might give your request a shot.

Maybe use the Focal which you thought was your best center.

I don't ever remember saying this.

When you're happy you have a product which can play all the way down to that 9hz and be relatively free of room nodes

Don't think I'll ever be able to use this SW for a PRIR at the recording studio.

I've inquired with the Smyths on the proper way to measure a SW or two as individual channels... (Every time I try, the PRIR is unusual) But I have not be given direct or concrete instructions It has been near impossible for me to get the recommended 40-60dB for both the IRVR and IPER. Nevertheless... I am quite pleased with what I have achieved will room correction and bass management..

For those who want to experience all of what the LFE channel has to offer.. I definitely recommend a tactile transducer via the tactile out of the A16.

 

[Fox1977]

How does the bbc prir front sound to your ears? With your hpeq.

It sounds really not good to me. I tried it again before answering your question, and the front scene sounds just between my ears. Unfortunately the dummy head's HRTF is probably very different from mine. I read that some users here have quite good results with the BBC PRIR, lucky them !

The center is always the hardest to get right on any virtual room rendering.

I use the 7.1 base of the Magico Enigmacoustics PRIR from DarinF that was measured from the A8 and that i found on the Google Drive folder.
With that one, i close my eyes and voices clearly come from a distance in front of me.
Already when i was using Out Of Your Head on my computer, the room that sounded best for me was the "Magical Speakers" room, made from Magico Q3 speakers. I don't know if these two rooms (both from Darin Fong) were measured by the same person, but their HRTF seems to be quite close to mine.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

It sounds really not good to me. I tried it again before answering your question, and the front scene sounds just between my ears. Unfortunately the dummy head's HRTF is probably very different from mine. I read that some users here have quite good results with the BBC PRIR, lucky them !


I use the 7.1 base of the Magico Enigmacoustics PRIR from DarinF that was measured from the A8 and that i found on the Google Drive folder.
With that one, i close my eyes and voices clearly come from a distance in front of me.
Already when i was using Out Of Your Head on my computer, the room that sounded best for me was the "Magical Speakers" room, made from Magico Q3 speakers. I don't know if these two rooms (both from Darin Fong) were measured by the same person, but their HRTF seems to be quite close to mine.

When I used OOYH, I found the Magico Q7 room and the Focal room worked best for me. YMMV and each person my find a different results. The Q3s on OOYH did little for me. I do have them (in a room on my A16) with the supertweeters from the Google Drive. I basically find they do little for me compared to my 9.1.6 Prir of my OG LS 50s. I'll probably be doing a 23 channel PRIR of my Metas this week now that I have them dialed in.

 

[arnaud]

About some of the remarks from @arnaud
when I read your comment about not benefiting from the HT and not using it, I considered not using mine and my reaction was

Hahaha, I did write « some of us » .

I believe our brain indeed makes use of small head movements to help with localization so head tracking should help but, maybe I am lucky there, I have no use for it to perceive all my channels at the right position. Maybe it has to do with my PRIRs as well: my room is very dry (<250ms T60 over most bands) + i measured in near field of the speakers such that there’s little reverb in my prirs and all channels are quite precisely located (pretty much using the realiser as an hrtf convolver than replication of a room/speaker system). I know this goes against A/V guidelines for surround channels but that works for me on most soundtracks. I have the same peculiarity for stereo listening on my speakers, it’s normally recommended to listen at the critical distance but I purposely fully listen where direct field dominates as this is where I feel resolution is best and imaging is solid.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Hahaha, I did write « some of us » .

I believe our brain indeed makes use of small head movements to help with localization so head tracking should help but, maybe I am lucky there, I have no use for it to perceive all my channels at the right position. Maybe it has to do with my PRIRs as well: my room is very dry (<250ms T60 over most bands) + i measured in near field of the speakers such that there’s little reverb in my prirs and all channels are quite precisely located (pretty much using the realiser as an hrtf convolver than replication of a room/speaker system). I know this goes against A/V guidelines for surround channels but that works for me on most soundtracks. I have the same peculiarity for stereo listening on my speakers, it’s normally recommended to listen at the critical distance but I purposely fully listen where direct field dominates as this is where I feel resolution is best and imaging is solid.

I think that's sound reasoning. Particularly in multi-channel surround sound setups, it's the multiple channels themselves that are designed to supply the "ambiance" element, so using room reverberation is actually defeating the designed effect of the codec. My PRIRs are all being done with the speakers around 6ft from my head, and, at least on my first attempt, that gave a nice lively sound with excellent localization for the Atmos sound objects.

Slightly different story on two channel listening. In that situation, I think the format calls for the room to supply more of the ambiance. making smooth and wide directivity, IMHO even more important. The wide part is a reason, I believe, why the Revel Salon 2s are considered such a gold standard. Unlike almost all speakers, they maintain their wide even directivity even higher than 10 khz.

 

[Lamerhouse]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sofabaton/sofabaton-x1?ref=cb86od

 

[Camano]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sofabaton/sofabaton-x1?ref=cb86od

Yes, a possible Logitech Harmony remote replacement. The A16 isn't in the device database but the Sofabaton can learn IR codes. It's short of buttons to replace the A16 remote. The two biggest improvements over their U1 remote are support for wifi and "activities" (i.e. multiple steps affecting different devices from one command).

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Yes, a possible Logitech Harmony remote replacement. The A16 isn't in the device database but the Sofabaton can learn IR codes. It's short of buttons to replace the A16 remote. The two biggest improvements over their U1 remote are support for wifi and "activities" (i.e. multiple steps affecting different devices from one command).

Are the A16's remote codes in any devices database?

 

[Dixter]

@Litlgi74 .... John can you tell us about the method and equipment that you use to record the demos... I am curious perhaps of recording some albums via the A16 for use when traveling

thanks

 

[Litlgi74]

@Litlgi74 .... John can you tell us about the method and equipment that you use to record the demos... I am curious perhaps of recording some albums via the A16 for use when traveling

thanks

It's a great idea... But for travel, you might be better off using something like a Creative Super X-Fi.

 

[Richter Di]

@Litlgi74 .... John can you tell us about the method and equipment that you use to record the demos... I am curious perhaps of recording some albums via the A16 for use when traveling

thanks

During the Kickstarter phase of the A16, Smyth claimed you could safe the PRIR / HPEQ version of the tracks you are listening to on a USB stick on the front. Guess this feature was never implemented.

 

[Richter Di]

It's a great idea... But for travel, you might be better off using something like a Creative Super X-Fi.

I have the Creative Super X-Fi, but it is no comparison to my own PRIR / HPEQ.

 

[illram]

I'd pay good money for an updated OOYH-style program from the A16 that I could just use on any PC or laptop.