Still requires some serious efforts on your part, but because there is no concept of head tracking, you "only" need to capture each speaker once.
@Dixter
I'm not promising anything, but that probably could allow to capture A16 outputs. Once you have impulse responses, it should be possible to at least handle stereo convolution on android devices(no clue about the Apple universe). I don't imagine there is any legal issue, I mean if OOYH could do it as a business, you surely can do it for your very own impulses. Even if it probably doesn't please the Smyth people(otherwize they wouldn't hide the impulses in the first place).
Still requires some serious efforts on your part, but because there is no concept of head tracking, you "only" need to capture each speaker once.
@Dixter
I'm not promising anything, but that probably could allow to capture A16 outputs. Once you have impulse responses, it should be possible to at least handle stereo convolution on android devices(no clue about the Apple universe). I don't imagine there is any legal issue, I mean if OOYH could do it as a business, you surely can do it for your very own impulses. Even if it probably doesn't please the Smyth people(otherwize they wouldn't hide the impulses in the first place).
With absolutely no certainty, I’d say viper4android. It already had options to import impulses almost a decade ago when I used it. But it only worked on rooted phones and you had to figure out the actual sample rate used by your stuff.
I just checked that the app even exists today and it does, but that’s all I know.
Usualy the impulse import and necessary ”true stereo” mixer(to send some of the left channel right, kind of like a head gets real sounds), are stuff you see in reverb tools. I also remember fooling around with liquidsonics on PC within a vst host with virtual cables and all that crazy stuff. They have an android app(not free!) That seems to handle imported impulses and ”true stereo”, but I have no idea how it interacts with the cellphone’s audio paths.
Back in the days, I still ended up seeking a plug in on PC for foobar and used the convert file tool of foobar to have the impulses applied to a bunch of folders. All my options are about a decade old, so I really would expect better, or at least more existing solutions today. I just don’t know them.
For Mac I recommend SoundSource which allows you to add plugins to the output channels. For the plugin I am using SIR3 which has excellent quality and performance. I use Ableton Live's IR measurement device to get True Stereo impulse responses. It works amazingly well and sounds exactly like the output of the A16.
With absolutely no certainty, I’d say viper4android. It already had options to import impulses almost a decade ago when I used it. But it only worked on rooted phones and you had to figure out the actual sample rate used by your stuff.
I just checked that the app even exists today and it does, but that’s all I know.
Back in the days, I still ended up seeking a plug in on PC for foobar and used the convert file tool of foobar to have the impulses applied to a bunch of folders. All my options are about a decade old, so I really would expect better, or at least more existing solutions today. I just don’t know them.
Foobar with the convert file tool using the convolverVST is still my preferred method to apply convolution on music files for my smartphone and even works with 7.1 input.
But how do you convert the Realiser impulse response file format to a more user friendly format?
I think that this is still the only option for Android and I don't like to root my phone.
Foobar with the convert file tool using the convolverVST is still my preferred method to apply convolution on music files for my smartphone and even works with 7.1 input.
But how do you convert the Realiser impulse response file format to a more user friendly format?
You can’t convert that, but you can capture the output straight from the A16 with impulcifer while it’s playing the processed test sweep. It’s adding many steps for absolutely no reason, but I can’t see why it wouldn’t work.
Maybe I’ll end up trying, but I must confess a terrible sin. My portable gears only serve to play audiobooks. It’s been like that for a bunch of years now. Which explains why I haven't looked into capturing impulses, despite thinking it was vital a decade ago when 100% of my music time was portable.
Hello everyone, new member here. I've tried various software solutions on PC and I am looking at the Smyth Realiser. My current best solution is Waves NX with their head tracking device at a total cost of around $80 USD. This is sufficient to separate all surround channels. I am using various headphones but the effect seems to be stable and consistent across all of them.
My question here is whether the Smyth Realiser has added to your experiences enough to justify the purchase cost (purely in terms of value to the consumer, not to the development of the technology as a whole). My idealized setup would be a Sennheiser HD 800 S and sufficient amp (about $2000 USD) or substitute electrostatic headphone and amp of comparable cost and the Smyth Realiser A16 at around $6000 total. Would any of you say that this setup is around 75x the value of my current setup? Or logarithmically corrected for diminishing gains, would it be worth around 8x the value? I have to ask the community because there is no way for me to demo these items whatsoever.
If any of you have also tried the Audeze Mobius and used any combination of the above, I would ask you also what you think of that as an intermediate solution. They tout a 1000 hz or 1 ms tracking rate but that seems a little far-fetched. I assume the Waves NX DSP processing on that would sound the same as with their PC software.
Hello everyone, new member here. I've tried various software solutions on PC and I am looking at the Smyth Realiser. My current best solution is Waves NX with their head tracking device at a total cost of around $80 USD. This is sufficient to separate all surround channels. I am using various headphones but the effect seems to be stable and consistent across all of them.
My question here is whether the Smyth Realiser has added to your experiences enough to justify the purchase cost (purely in terms of value to the consumer, not to the development of the technology as a whole). My idealized setup would be a Sennheiser HD 800 S and sufficient amp (about $2000 USD) or substitute electrostatic headphone and amp of comparable cost and the Smyth Realiser A16 at around $6000 total. Would any of you say that this setup is around 75x the value of my current setup? Or logarithmically corrected for diminishing gains, would it be worth around 8x the value? I have to ask the community because there is no way for me to demo these items whatsoever.
If any of you have also tried the Audeze Mobius and used any combination of the above, I would ask you also what you think of that as an intermediate solution. They tout a 1000 hz or 1 ms tracking rate but that seems a little far-fetched. I assume the Waves NX DSP processing on that would sound the same as with their PC software.
I have the NX setup with head tracker, The Audeze Möbius, and Apple AirPods Max with Atmos & Spatial audio.
One cannot truly compare the realiser with the above solutions. My personal experience is Realiser emulates a complex speaker system very well. The others do surround well but it still feels like you are listening to your headphones.
I have the NX setup with head tracker, The Audeze Möbius, and Apple AirPods Max with Atmos & Spatial audio.
One cannot truly compare the realiser with the above solutions. My personal experience is Realiser emulates a complex speaker system very well. The others do surround well but it still feels like you are listening to your headphones.
How nice to see such a rapid reply! How would you compare the Möbius with the NX head tracker? Does it feel like it is actually 1000 hz headtracking? That claim alone had me a bit skeptical to buy it. Also, what headphones are you using with the Realiser? From your profile picture I would guess the HD 800 S. Have you tried an electrostatic setup as well? I know Smyth previously recommended an entry level Stax earspeaker to pair with the A8.
Hello everyone, new member here. I've tried various software solutions on PC and I am looking at the Smyth Realiser. My current best solution is Waves NX with their head tracking device at a total cost of around $80 USD. This is sufficient to separate all surround channels. I am using various headphones but the effect seems to be stable and consistent across all of them.
My question here is whether the Smyth Realiser has added to your experiences enough to justify the purchase cost (purely in terms of value to the consumer, not to the development of the technology as a whole). My idealized setup would be a Sennheiser HD 800 S and sufficient amp (about $2000 USD) or substitute electrostatic headphone and amp of comparable cost and the Smyth Realiser A16 at around $6000 total. Would any of you say that this setup is around 75x the value of my current setup? Or logarithmically corrected for diminishing gains, would it be worth around 8x the value? I have to ask the community because there is no way for me to demo these items whatsoever.
If any of you have also tried the Audeze Mobius and used any combination of the above, I would ask you also what you think of that as an intermediate solution. They tout a 1000 hz or 1 ms tracking rate but that seems a little far-fetched. I assume the Waves NX DSP processing on that would sound the same as with their PC software.
" Would any of you say that this setup is around 75x the value of my current setup? Or logarithmically corrected for diminishing gains, would it be worth around 8x the value? "
Huh? 75x the value? 8x the logarithmically corrected for diminishing returns value? Again, huh! Whose value? Even if you could somehow create an objective scale for rating the sound quality of the Smyth vs the Waves NX solution you would still be left with the issue of the utility each individual would attach to that difference. It's the utility curve which is as individual as you are or I that will be translate any objective measure into a subjective value for me or you. And since you have no idea of my utility curve or its similarity to yours (nor any way to find out), such a judgement as "10 times better than Waves NX" is meaningless.
For what it's worth, there appears to be no program or hardware on the market that more successfully emulates the impression over headphones of speakers in a real room playing music and movie soundtracks than the Realiser, and in the opinion of virtually everyone who has used it, everything else pales in comparison.
How nice to see such a rapid reply! How would you compare the Möbius with the NX head tracker? Does it feel like it is actually 1000 hz headtracking? That claim alone had me a bit skeptical to buy it. Also, what headphones are you using with the Realiser? From your profile picture I would guess the HD 800 S. Have you tried an electrostatic setup as well? I know Smyth previously recommended an entry level Stax earspeaker to pair with the A8.
Mobius tracking is really good esp with the Bluetooth tracker ! It’s all axis . Realiser is all axis but the software recognizes only horizontal and not vertical. At some point it may be enabled as per Smyths. So again not a true comparison.
Indeed I do have the HD800S. I haven’t had the opportunity to try it with electrostatic.
" Would any of you say that this setup is around 75x the value of my current setup? Or logarithmically corrected for diminishing gains, would it be worth around 8x the value? "
Huh? 75x the value? 8x the logarithmically corrected for diminishing returns value? Again, huh! Whose value? Even if you could somehow create an objective scale for rating the sound quality of the Smyth vs the Waves NX solution you would still be left with the issue of the utility each individual would attach to that difference. It's the utility curve which is as individual as you are or I that will be translate any objective measure into a subjective value for me or you. And since you have no idea of my utility curve or its similarity to yours (nor any way to find out), such a judgement as "10 times better than Waves NX" is meaningless.
For what it's worth, there appears to be no program or hardware on the market that more successfully emulates the impression that speakers playing music and movie soundtracks over headphones than the Realiser, and from the impression of everyone who has used it, everything else pales in comparison.
I understand exactly what you mean. Put it like this, could you stand around 8x the cost assuming you have limited means (you may not, or at least you may allocate more funds to attaining an apex, but assuming you do). But you may not have tried Waves NX with the tracker or found it suitable so that would not apply. But the answer from you would certainly be yes!
Mobius tracking is really good esp with the Bluetooth tracker ! It’s all axis . Realiser is all axis but the software recognizes only horizontal and not vertical. At some point it may be enabled as per Smyths. So again not a true comparison.
I see, thank you. The IR reference given by the Smyth Virtualiser is something that I would see as being quite necessary for 6DOF. If I am understanding correctly, the vertical pitch is not something Smyth has decided to enable. I assume that is for their good reason. Smyth gives their total latency as only 3 ms so I think the Audeze claim of 1 ms on their tracker may be a bit exaggerated but it is possible if they have an interposition function in their software that recalculates based on 1000 hz input from their IMU at any time akin to that found in some VR solutions.
Edit: I see from the Smyth FAQ that they have been able to do about 30-60 degrees of pitch in their software.
In any case it seems the massive advantage that Smyth has is for inputting room and speaker measurements and customized BRIR/PRIR along with the well-built hardware and licenses for decoding all the surround content that is currently available on practically every source device. An all-in-one solution that does it all. There are software solutions that do preset speaker measurements (OOYH), that do head tracking and such (Waves, maybe others), that can decode and play the latest proprietary surround formats (Dolby and DTS spatial effects now built into Windows 10), that can record and produce PRIRs for use with other programs (Impulcifier), that allow for the use of various such files with Windows audio (Equalizer APO -> Hesuvi). I understand the value in a solution situated in the convolution of the home theater and high fidelity audio spaces that is well-implemented on all functions. For that much the Realiser is actually a significant value compared to things that have come before it (BACCH-SP).
I understand exactly what you mean. Put it like this, could you stand around 8x the cost assuming you have limited means (you may not, or at least you may allocate more funds to attaining an apex, but assuming you do). But you may not have tried Waves NX with the tracker or found it suitable so that would not apply. But the answer from you would certainly be yes!
I see, thank you. The IR reference given by the Smyth Virtualiser is something that I would see as being quite necessary for 6DOF. If I am understanding correctly, the vertical pitch is not something Smyth has decided to enable. I assume that is for their good reason. Smyth gives their total latency as only 3 ms so I think the Audeze claim of 1 ms on their tracker may be a bit exaggerated but it is possible if they have an interposition function in their software that recalculates based on 1000 hz input from their IMU at any time akin to that found in some VR solutions.
Edit: I see from the Smyth FAQ that they have been able to do about 30-60 degrees of pitch in their software.
In any case it seems the massive advantage that Smyth has is for inputting room and speaker measurements and customized BRIR/PRIR along with the well-built hardware and licenses for decoding all the surround content that is currently available on practically every source device. An all-in-one solution that does it all. There are software solutions that do preset speaker measurements (OOYH), that do head tracking and such (Waves, maybe others), that can decode and play the latest proprietary surround formats (Dolby and DTS spatial effects now built into Windows 10), that can record and produce PRIRs for use with other programs (Impulcifier), that allow for the use of various such files with Windows audio (Equalizer APO -> Hesuvi). I understand the value in a solution situated in the convolution of the home theater and high fidelity audio spaces that is well-implemented on all functions. For that much the Realiser is actually a significant value compared to things that have come before it (BACCH-SP).
Good luck with your decision. An A16 is a sizable investment, and, I think, no one should undertake it unless they are fully committed to getting the most out of it.
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How would you compare the Möbius with the NX head tracker? Does it feel like it is actually 1000 hz headtracking? That claim alone had me a bit skeptical to buy it. Also, what headphones are you using with the Realiser? From your profile picture I would guess the HD 800 S. Have you tried an electrostatic setup as well? I know Smyth previously recommended an entry level Stax earspeaker to pair with the A8.
