[Camano]

If anyone is on the fence about buying an A16 and does not want to pay full MSRP, I am interested in selling my pre-order slot. I had pre-ordered an A16 at the time knowing I'd probably never be able to afford the retail model, but at that time we still had a son living at home. Now it's an empty house and as much as I want to experience the wonder of this system, I really don't have the practical need for headphone surround audio any longer. I just got confirmation from James Smyth that he will officially facilitate transferring my place in the pre-order line to someone else if I work out a deal with someone else. So if you're interested let me know if you want to make an offer, thanks.

 

[Camano]

Did you request a refund for your preorder (looking at the subject line) that was refused?

 

[mikemav]

Did you request a refund for your preorder (looking at the subject line) that was refused?

I requested either a refund OR the ability to offer it up to someone else. His response was as written, did not say no but left out an answer to part two. I do not anticipate they will try to say no should I request a refund, and I will certainly push for that if needed. I wanted to offer it up here first not to try to make a giant profit, but see whatever anyone things it's worth in 2021. I was offered $2300 in late 2019 for just this thing but at that time James was non-responsive to my requests for moving my slot to the potential buyer's info, so he went on and bought at MRSP I believe and I am pretty annoyed they have only responded in the affirmative now when I bring up the refund word. Look I get mostly where they are coming from too, I've been in the proAV manufacturing world and a lot beyond their control, however I do wish the communication was better back in 2019 when I first asked about this.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

If anyone is on the fence about buying an A16 and does not want to pay full MSRP, I am interested in selling my pre-order slot. I had pre-ordered an A16 at the time knowing I'd probably never be able to afford the retail model, but at that time we still had a son living at home. Now it's an empty house and as much as I want to experience the wonder of this system, I really don't have the practical need for headphone surround audio any longer. I just got confirmation from James Smyth that he will officially facilitate transferring my place in the pre-order line to someone else if I work out a deal with someone else. So if you're interested let me know if you want to make an offer, thanks.

That's a welcome shift on their part. Used to be they would not honor warranties from anyone who didn't purchase directly from them.

 

[sander99]

That's a welcome shift on their part. Used to be they would not honor warranties from anyone who didn't purchase directly from them.

Selling your spot in line (your not-yet shipped A16) via Smyth is not the same as simply selling your A16 "in hand" to someone else. I don't think there is a change in warranty policy.

 

[Sanctuary]

While I know this is the A16 thread, the old A8 thread is deader than dead, and I'm assuming there are at least a few here that are familiar with the A8. Plus, some that have the A16 might have stumbled upon the problem/quirk I'm having right now with the A8 and might be able to share some insight.

Back in 2019 I borrowed a friend's room for twenty-four hours and managed to get a "pretty good" 7.1 PRIR out of the fourteen or so I ended up experimenting with, so I'd just been getting by using that since. Recently I ended up buying a mid-range ($1,600) Marantz receiver, since not only did I want a more modern receiver than the one I had been using, but I also needed a 7.1 ch input. My old Denon only had 5.1. I also ended up paying an arm and a leg for some new fronts. I figured that any past issues I was having with the Denon and the A8 would be not be repeated with the Marantz, but of course...

When I do the speaker calibration, the front right always wants to cause problems and blink that it's too low. Once I raise the main volume until that is no longer the case, when I actually do the PRIR sweeps, all of the other speakers sound equal in both volume and length of the sweeps. The front right however not only goes for much longer, it also seems to be around 30% louder for whatever reason. This has been consistent with two different receivers and different fronts as well as two different kinds/brands of RCA cables.

Also, when I do the speaker calibration, the sub activates just fine, yet when the sweeps happen, I barely hear anything at all (kind of normal, but it leads into the next issue) and on top of that, this is probably the biggest issue I am having right now: unless I actually go and adjust the general bass settings of both receivers and put both of them at +10, the sub is completely absent during PRIR playback, and the rest of the speakers sound like the body was sucked right out of them. Like I was using some crappy, tiny bluetooth speakers or something insane. I thought both the A8 and A16 were supposed to capture the speakers as they are, but if that's the case, then there's just something horribly wrong with my unit, or there's a setting somewhere that I'm just not finding that needs to be adjusted. I assumed it might just be an easy to fix crossover issue, but that didn't seem to be the case.

Lastly, after adjusting the bass and finally getting a "good" PRIR where the speakers actually sound full volume and frequency as they should, with a sub that actually sounds like a sub, when doing the PRIR sweeps, the front right gets MEGA loud, almost to the point where it sounds like it's going to become distorted or possibly blow. This isn't safe, but it's the only way I can actually get something that works right now. I'd argue that maybe the mics are somehow screwed up, but aside from having to raise the bass, every other speaker but the front right sounds correct. Also, even with the "good" PRIRs I manage to get, the front right just doesn't have the same kind of clarity as the left. While I can hear everything just fine during movies and such, the tone just sounds congested and unlike the rest.

Any ideas?

 

[Eich1eeF]

[...]

Lastly, after adjusting the bass and finally getting a "good" PRIR where the speakers actually sound full volume and frequency as they should, with a sub that actually sounds like a sub, when doing the PRIR sweeps, the front right gets MEGA loud, almost to the point where it sounds like it's going to become distorted or possibly blow. This isn't safe, but it's the only way I can actually get something that works right now. I'd argue that maybe the mics are somehow screwed up, but aside from having to raise the bass, every other speaker but the front right sounds correct. Also, even with the "good" PRIRs I manage to get, the front right just doesn't have the same kind of clarity as the left. While I can hear everything just fine during movies and such, the tone just sounds congested and unlike the rest.

Any ideas?

Do you have similar problems with PRIRs that others have made (presumably you know e.g. the google drive)? Does the problem with the front right speaker move if you turn facing e.g. the right surround speaker when recording the PRIR?

 

[sander99]

When I do the speaker calibration, the front right always wants to cause problems and blink that it's too low. Once I raise the main volume until that is no longer the case, when I actually do the PRIR sweeps, all of the other speakers sound equal in both volume and length of the sweeps. The front right however not only goes for much longer, it also seems to be around 30% louder for whatever reason. This has been consistent with two different receivers and different fronts as well as two different kinds/brands of RCA cables.

You say one sweep is longer. Do you notice the pitch goes up slower than the others (in which case it is really a different sweep and I would definitely think the firmware is really messed up)? Or maybe it just seems longer because you keep hearing it up to a higher pitch (which could be simply the result of the higher volume, in the upper heights your hearing will be less sensitive)?
If the latter is the case (probably the same sweep just louder):
Does the A8 allow manual change of the calibration levels? What if after the calibration you manually set the level of the front right back to the same value as the front left and then do the PRIR measurement?
(My reasoning: maybe only in the calibration something goes wrong that sets the level for front right too high, and some of the other problems are just the consequences of that wrong level.)

 

[Sanctuary]

Do you have similar problems with PRIRs that others have made (presumably you know e.g. the google drive)? Does the problem with the front right speaker move if you turn facing e.g. the right surround speaker when recording the PRIR?

Pretty much none of the other PRIRs from other users sound right to me, so I never use them. Some come really close, but then the rears don't sound right, or the fronts sound way too elevated. But as far as their speaker levels are concerned, they at least sound like they are both the same distances (relative to each other), volume and clarity. Also, I don't use the head tracker, so facing left and right do not seem to be relevant. I previously had always been doing that, assuming it was needed for part of the calculations, but it appears that it's not unless you're going to be using the head tracker. The position of my head though doesn't affect the sweep issue I am talking about since it's happening at the very start before any head movement is required, and my head is as centered as much as I can get it to be during that period.

If you were asking if my perception of the issue is different if I turn (maybe even 360 degrees) due to any differences between my ears, then no. Even if one of my ears couldn't hear quite as well as the other anymore, it still wouldn't cause the A8 to constantly complain that the front right volume is not at the level it should be, nor would it make the volume skyrocket for just that speaker (and it really does).

You say one sweep is longer. Do you notice the pitch goes up slower than the others (in which case it is really a different sweep and I would definitely think the firmware is really messed up)? Or maybe it just seems longer because you keep hearing it up to a higher pitch (which could be simply the result of the higher volume, in the upper heights your hearing will be less sensitive)?
If the latter is the case (probably the same sweep just louder):
Does the A8 allow manual change of the calibration levels? What if after the calibration you manually set the level of the front right back to the same value as the front left and then do the PRIR measurement?
(My reasoning: maybe only in the calibration something goes wrong that sets the level for front right too high, and some of the other problems are just the consequences of that wrong level.)

It really is something with the sweep itself. Not only does it get extremely loud compared to the rest of the speakers, the "decay" I guess you could call it of the sweep persists for much longer too. And yes, it does actually sound like it takes longer for it to "warm up" too.

Even if it was age related pitch differences, that would not explain the time it takes to go from that sweep to the next relative to how long it takes all of the other sweeps (besides the sub) to jump from one to the other. It really is taking a longer period of time. The volume is also not really a perceptual problem either, because as I said in my previous post above, I end up having to turn it up so loud that it sounds like the front right is about to start to distort, and I've even heard a popping sound once or twice. When I say the volume goes up, I really mean it. It gets so loud that it starts to fatigue my ear very quickly.

I was wanting to check to see if there was simply something wrong with the mics (but this would not really explain why the rest of sweeps through the rest of the speakers besides the sub all seem to be pretty much uniform), but my mic calibration option doesn't even work on my A8.

Microphone balance calibration

The microphones supplied with the Realiser are matched by hand at the factory within a fraction of a decibel. Any slight remaining difference in sensitivity will become part of the HPEQ measurement, so listening to a PRIR and HPEQ made with the same microphone pair will be fully compensated.

The Realiser provides a microphone balance procedure in order for microphone imbalance to be compensated independent of HPEQ, so that any PRIR can be used with any HPEQ regardless of the microphones used. Because the microphones in each pair have already been carefully matched, this procedure may be superfluous, but it provides further assurance that any residual imbalance, effect of microphone aging or mishandling, etc. is accounted for.

Place the microphones close together and stationary. Diffuse ambient sound is best for this measurement. Only after the microphones have been placed, press MENU-CAL. The screen will say:

MIC CALIBRATION
BALANCE: 1.0 (L/R)
PRESS EXIT TO ABOUT
...OK TO REBALANCE

While this menu is on screen, the Realiser is accumulating the average signal level received at each microphone. When OK is pressed, the balancing factor is calculated and the accumulators are reset. After perhaps fifteen seconds, press OK and observe the number. Do this several times and you should see similar numbers each time. After several brief observations, let the measurement accumulate for several minutes and press OK. This final, longer-accumulated factor will be the one to use. If during the brief trials you get very different numbers each time, check the cabling and try to avoid loud transient sounds during the measurement.

The range of factors is 0.5 to 2.0, with 1.0 indicating that no compensation is necessary. Intermediate readings will be compensated, but a reading of 0.5 indicates 0.5 or lower and a reading of 2.0 indicates 2.0 or higher, so if either of these numbers appears, it should be considered that there is a problem with the microphones.
The last-calculated factor will be applied for new measurements until power-down; to save it for future sessions, press (!)-SAVE SYSTEM CONFIG.

Microphone pass-through

While the MIC CALIBRATION screen is active (MENU-CAL), the microphone input is routed to the headphone output. Press CANCEL to end the connection. By listening to the headphones and lightly touching the microphones, you can verify that the microphones are “live”. This can be an aid in identifying any problems with the microphones, the mic cables, the Y-connector, full insertion of all microphone plugs, etc.

Not only does my A8 never give me any kind of numbers when I press OK (it just sits there doing nothing), while having headphones plugged in, there's absolutely no mic sound when lightly tapping or brushing them as though they aren't even on during this period.

As far as manual calibrations go with the A8 itself, not to my knowledge. I either have to simply keep adjusting the general volume on the receiver, or simply adjust the volume of a speaker individually through the receiver as well. Sometimes I would just ignore the complaints of the A8 that the front right is too low and see what would happen anyway. It seems like whether it says it's too low, or it's just right, the sweep problem still persists. I was having a similar problem using the Denon back in 2019, and assumed it was just a problem with the receiver since it was actually twenty years old by that point, but now it appears that wasn't actually the problem.

Another issue I was previously having, and also another reason why I felt like I needed a 7.1ch input receiver is because when I was using the "ALL" mode, but having "SAVE AT END" set to "NO" so that I could add rear surrounds while only using a 5.1ch input receiver, I would get all kinds of volume discrepancies with my PRIRs, and there didn't seem to be any rhyme nor reason aside from having to unplug a single RCA cable and plugging them into the different output jack of the A8. Sometimes I would end up with one speaker, or pairs of speakers that had such a low volume compared to the rest that even turning them all of the way up and the rest all the way down through the A8 speaker menu couldn't compensate for it. There also didn't seem to be any real pattern either as to which speakers would suffer the problem even if I ran through the exact same methodology as before.

I tried to get help from Mike Smyth with the issue, but in the end he was at a loss, because he said that it sounded like I was doing everything correctly, and that his best solution would be for me to simply send them various PRIRs where any given set of speakers sounded good to me, and they would just combine them for me. I never took him up on his offer though, because it didn't really help me with my actual problem, since I needed the A8 to be working in the event that I were to actually go to a studio room, or at least a good room that was much drier than average. The A8 was ever only supposed to be a "backup" unit after the A16 arrived, but it's since become the only unit, since I'm forever waiting like most of the rest for the A16s to actually start shipping again. If they ever do.

Anyway, I too was wondering if it might be a problem with the firmware, but don't really know how to go about rectifying it if that's what it is. The manual says that August 3, 2011 is the latest version, and the info of my A8 says that's the version it's updated to as well, but when I actually check for firmware downloads, it doesn't actually give a revision date by the firmware download itself, but after downloading it, when I look at the file it says it's from June 6, 2019. That doesn't match any of the revision dates of the A16, so it doesn't appear to be a misplaced firmware in the download section, but considering I cannot find any information on the firmware file I actually downloaded, I'm not risking using it.

https://smyth-research.com/downloads/

I might try your idea though about adjusting the volume of the problematic speaker until the calibration diagnostics come out "OK" and then turn it back down to its previous volume. I don't actually foresee that being the solution, but so far I've tried just about everything else, so I may as well try that too.

This still wouldn't really explain the problem with the sub though (nor the horribly anemic sounds of the rest of the speakers in general), where it simply doesn't even exist during playback with a PRIR without me turning the bass up on the receiver to +10 and having to turn the general volume way up too for the sweeps. The LFE is even set to +10 already, and the crossover is set to 80hz. I've even experimented with having the rest of the speakers set to large and small (they should all be set to small if I want the crossover to work with them) and that doesn't seem to affect anything either. If I simply turn the sub volume up by itself on the receiver (or just physically adjust it on the back of the sub), then the A8 starts complaining that the sub is too loud, but it doesn't do this if I turn the general volume up...

Oh yeah, and another thing: I've always done HPEQs for the two main headphones I used, but I absolutely cannot tell a difference between them being used or not, as though they aren't even working either. I can even use one HPEQ from my HD800s with my DT1990s and vice versa and each pair of headphones sound the same as they do without the HPEQs, and I'm completely erasing each preset before adding a different PRIR/HPEQ file too.

 

[sander99]

Pretty much none of the other PRIRs from other users sound right to me ... But as far as their speaker levels are concerned, they at least sound like they are both the same distances (relative to each other), volume and clarity.

And is also the subwoofer level okay with the other PRIRs?

Oh yeah, and another thing: I've always done HPEQs for the two main headphones I used, but I absolutely cannot tell a difference between them being used or not, as though they aren't even working either. I can even use one HPEQ from my HD800s with my DT1990s and vice versa and each pair of headphones sound the same as they do without the HPEQs

And if you use one of the other HPEQs from the google drive, can you hear a difference then with one of your own HPEQs?

I ask these questions because it could be that all the problems are related to measurements, but everything regarding normal use of PRIR and HPEQ during speaker virtualisation works fine.
If so that would mean that worst case you could use someone else's A8 to do measurements and use them with your own A8. Far from ideal but at least it is something.

 

[Litlgi74]

As promised... The www.3dsoundshop.com website is live!

I am very anxious to get your feedback.

Enjoy

 

[audiohobbit]

Not only does my A8 never give me any kind of numbers when I press OK (it just sits there doing nothing), while having headphones plugged in, there's absolutely no mic sound when lightly tapping or brushing them as though they aren't even on during this period.

Maybe your mics actually are damaged?

Anyone in your vicinity with another A8?

 

[Sanctuary]

Well, good news (great actually) and maybe bad news.

The good news is that I finally, after owning the A8 for just over two years now got three PRIRs that fully realize what that little box can actually do when you feed it quality (or at least not total garbage) speakers and an OK room to go with it. I had the goofiest grin on my face while finally being able to test it out on actual movie content, and it seriously blows away the 7.1 PRIR I had been using up until now. It just shows how much of an impact your speakers really do have on it too.

Prior to this week, I had been using some old Klipsch KSF8.5 speakers for the fronts and an RC-3 center that I purchased in '97 along with some crummy bookshelf speakers someone sold to me for cheap that same year as my surrounds (as well as the rears with my previous 7.1 PRIR). Now I'm using some RP-280Fs as the fronts, the KSF8.5s as the surrounds and some Elac Debut B6.2s as the rears. For my third PRIR I ended up using one of the RP-280fs as a center, knowing full well how good a front can sound as the center, but I couldn't actually use my previous PRIR where I tested that out years ago due to level issues. I ended up using a single KSF8.5 and moved it into seven positions, and despite the level problems, I could at least hear the potential of that kind of a setup.

I know this isn't close to the kind of speakers many here are using, but my point is just that it sounds really good to me, and is so much better than my previous PRIR, and the room wasn't even optimal yet.

The bad news is that either I'm taking crazy pills, or my A8 is simply possessed. It's like a box of chocolates each time I turn it on it seems regarding PRIR capture settings. Tonight I didn't get any of the extended sweep sounds from my front right, nor did the volume go higher right after having to constantly deal with it the previous night, and the fix to my sub and anemic sounding speakers was so damn stupid it defies belief. There's a low frequency roll-off option in the speaker mode menu. I have absolutely never changed that setting before tonight. For whatever reason, it somehow decided to set itself to 750hz, which means everything below that was being omitted and mostly explains why I could never hear any sub at all, and why the other speakers sounded so weak. I say mostly, because if I turned the volume of the receiver up very loud, and like I previously mentioned jacking the bass up, it would somehow "work". It's really easy to tell when something isn't right too while trying to capture a PRIR when it's time for the sub to activate. If it just sounds like it's doing this extremely quiet whistle, then I know that entire PRIR is going to be bunk, but when I hear it kick in as it should, everything seems to turn out OK.

So not only did the A8 just randomly decide to turn the roll-off on since I did my previous captures in 2019, it was also randomly changing SAVE AT END from "YES" to "NO", randomly changing the settings in the EXCITATION MENU from 4 sweeps with 4s of silence to 1 sweep and 2s of silence to even the sweeps that pause and require you to press OK to continue after each one. I certainly didn't change those from the 3s duration, 4x and 4s of silence I had been using all of the previous night for testing (and also happened to save it in the system config). My unit just does so many random things, but at least it seems to function like it should when actually using a decent PRIR for a virtual home theater.

As far as borrowing someone else's A8? I would if I could, but that's an extremely niche item in a pretty niche hobby. Maybe some of you know someone close to you that has one, but I certainly don't. Hopefully all of these kinks are finally worked out and I now know what to look for if there's any more wonky stuff happening in the future.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

YouTube video about where to find Atmos programming

 

[esimms86]

As promised... The www.3dsoundshop.com website is live!

I am very anxious to get your feedback.

Enjoy

Very clear and easy to navigate website and excellent range of products for those of us for whom the universal PRIRs are a good fit. Prices are also very fair(especially the multi packs!). Thanks for your hard work and for offering this to your fellow A16 users.