[Got the Shakes]

No, that did not pop up for me. I will next email James and ask him to see what he can do have my charges reduced or eliminated. My tracking info, BTW, shows and arrival scan in Stansted, UK.

Mine departed Philadelphia this morning for what I assume is the flight over the Atlantic.

UPS International and the UPS Store spoke a bit ago and this is where I stand. The UPS Store submitted the original commercial invoice, shipping label, and a letter they wrote on my behalf to try and prove it's not a sale but a warranty return. I was told that Smyth could also submit any documentation they thought could help. I let James know what was going on in case he had anything additional to add.

 

[You Gene]

Mine departed Philadelphia this morning for what I assume is the flight over the Atlantic.

UPS International and the UPS Store spoke a bit ago and this is where I stand. The UPS Store submitted the original commercial invoice, shipping label, and a letter they wrote on my behalf to try and prove it's not a sale but a warranty return. I was told that Smyth could also submit any documentation they thought could help. I let James know what was going on in case he had anything additional to add.

Why would they need the original invoice ? Weren't you invoiced for an upgrade ? This is not a repair.
Like you said the Smyths might/will have to submit some documentation (special form ?) or confirmation in writing. It also depends on their declaration. Are the Smyths going to say it is a simple return for repair (i.e. tax relief) or a return for an upgrade. If it is an upgrade you will have to pay VAT on the amount of the upgrade.

If it is a repair under warranty, it will mean a tax relief.

What if the Smyths response does not correspond with your declaration ? Warranty against upgrade ? Are they going to lie (by omission) ?

You are right to keep close contact with James. I believe it all hinges on him now.

 

[Dixter]

Mine departed Philadelphia this morning for what I assume is the flight over the Atlantic.

UPS International and the UPS Store spoke a bit ago and this is where I stand. The UPS Store submitted the original commercial invoice, shipping label, and a letter they wrote on my behalf to try and prove it's not a sale but a warranty return. I was told that Smyth could also submit any documentation they thought could help. I let James know what was going on in case he had anything additional to add.

I think our boxes are sitting next to each other on the same plane... hope this all works out...

 

[Got the Shakes]

Why would they need the original invoice ? Weren't you invoiced for an upgrade ? This is not a repair.
Like you said the Smyths might/will have to submit some documentation (special form ?) or confirmation in writing. It also depends on their declaration. Are the Smyths going to say it is a simple return for repair (i.e. tax relief) or a return for an upgrade. If it is an upgrade you will have to pay VAT on the amount of the upgrade.

If it is a repair under warranty, it will mean a tax relief.

What if the Smyths response does not correspond with your declaration ? Warranty against upgrade ? Are they going to lie (by omission) ?

You are right to keep close contact with James. I believe it all hinges on him now.

I was just following the instructions that James sent me last week. He specifically told me to "Please state that your unit is being returned for “warranty return for service/repair service” with UPS, "Also write “warranty return for service/repair service” on the outside of the box you're sending the unit back in.", and "leave a paper note inside the package describing this is a “warranty return for service/repair service." Even the UPS people I spoke with made it sound like the original commercial invoice could be helpful to prove that I own the unit, that it was manufactured in the UK, and that it isn't being sent to the UK for resale. I have little to no experience with any of this so I'm just following what James said to do and what UPS said might be helpful in pleading my case for a import fee reduction to UK Customs.

I think our boxes are sitting next to each other on the same plane... hope this all works out...

I think that it will work that our A16s make it into the hands of the Smyths, the question at this point is at what cost? Both UPS corporate and the UPS Store provided as much help and guidance as they could,, ultimately it's up to the UK Customs people to take any additional information submitted and render a decision on if it qualifies for any relief.

 

[Eich1eeF]

£697.20 government charges
£17.43 brokerage charges
£0.00 freight charges
£0.00 VAT

That is the breakdown in charges that UPS says for me to the £714.70 in charges.

That's slightly weird, but apparently they may have to charge VAT for services rendered in the UK, but since the brokerage charges apply outside the UK, that explains the 0 VAT. Over here in Germany, Sales Tax (UST) and Sales Import Tax (EUST) are two "totally different" things that just happen to have identical rates. I suspect it's the same for this bill, so the tax levied at the same rate as the VAT is part of those government charges. If I were to guess, you've specified a value of 4000 USD, and then £697 is almost exactly 20% of that, at least at last month's exchange rate.

Again: if they don't waive those taxes on the way in, you'll receive a refund on the way out. On top of that shouldn't end up paying UK/EU VAT for the upgrade, so the total sales/import/value added tax at the end should be zero.

 

[Got the Shakes]

That's slightly weird, but apparently they may have to charge VAT for services rendered in the UK, but since the brokerage charges apply outside the UK, that explains the 0 VAT. Over here in Germany, Sales Tax (UST) and Sales Import Tax (EUST) are two "totally different" things that just happen to have identical rates. I suspect it's the same for this bill, so the tax levied at the same rate as the VAT is part of those government charges. If I were to guess, you've specified a value of 4000 USD, and then £697 is almost exactly 20% of that, at least at last month's exchange rate.

Again: if they don't waive those taxes on the way in, you'll receive a refund on the way out. On top of that shouldn't end up paying UK/EU VAT for the upgrade, so the total sales/import/value added tax at the end should be zero.

You're correct about the value declared. I declared $4,000 USD. Just so I understand, worst case scenario should be that they don't waive the fees on the way in, I pay them, and then get refunded when the A16 departs back for the US? So at the very worst I have $900 US tied up in this until they refund me?

 

[Eich1eeF]

You're correct about the value declared. I declared $4,000 USD. Just so I understand, worst case scenario should be that they don't waive the fees on the way in, I pay them, and then get refunded when the A16 departs back for the US? So at the very worst I have $900 US tied up in this until they refund me?

Correct. That's at least what should happen, but that of course doesn't mean that the carelessness of UPS, the greed of the UK Government and a grain of ineptitude in those things by the Smyths couldn't mess things up in the end. Also there are probably additional fees that UPS would like to charge as well as some risk that the exchange rate may change to your disadvantage. Overall my guesstimate would be that there's at about a 90% chance that you're getting your taxes back.

Edit: you're not getting the fees back - UPS charges those. The government's taxes, duties, tariffs, whatever else one might call them, on the other hand should be refunded.

 

[Dixter]

yee haa.... we are in Stansted, United Kingdom now...

 

[Got the Shakes]

Correct. That's at least what should happen, but that of course doesn't mean that the carelessness of UPS, the greed of the UK Government and a grain of ineptitude in those things by the Smyths couldn't mess things up in the end. Also there are probably additional fees that UPS would like to charge as well as some risk that the exchange rate may change to your disadvantage. Overall my guesstimate would be that there's at about a 90% chance that you're getting your taxes back.

Considering where I thought I was 18 hours ago with this, a 90% chance doesn’t sound all that awful. I’m really hoping something happens to waive them beforehand though.

yee haa.... we are in Stansted, United Kingdom now...

Same here. I don’t have a delivery date though. Was Friday up until last night and then it turned to unscheduled and has stayed there.

 

[1m1a]

I haven't seen any recent shipments to Kickstarter backers — do we know what number they are up to? I'm one of those that has never gotten mine yet.

 

[esimms86]

@Eich1eeF, thanks for giving me hope. My unit now has a departure scan documented from Stansted. Delivery estimate has been pushed back to late Friday morning.

Regarding shipping of Kickstarter units, I wonder if there is a delay caused by assembly of new boards. I believe they were up to around #204 having shipped before the outflow of units stopped.

@1m1a, you can view your glass as being more than half full as you will eventually be receiving an upgraded A16 without having to go through the upgrade and shipping expense that some of us are now going through. Heck, there’s a chance that you have your unit in hand before my unit is even shipped back to me.

Edit: My unit is now confirmed to be in Castle Donington per the arrival scan, with estimated delivery back on for late tomorrow morning.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

I realize everyone's concerns right now (Realiser-wise) seem to revolve around getting their Realiser to Bangor, finding a freight company to do that, minimizing customs and duties, etc, etc, but with this hiatus in delivery and firmware updates, isn't it also a good time to consider where we should try to influence Smyth Research to concentrate its further efforts for development of this project?

With that end in mind, I have a few thoughts. With regard to their effort to offer a Realiser which decodes all three advanced immersive home theater codecs : to wit, Dolby Atmos, DTS-X, and Auro 3D. What I have been hearing and reading lately leads me to believe that Dolby Atmos is going to be the overwhelmingly dominant format going forward, assuming the other formats survive at all. And, if that's the case, is it reasonable, or prudent for Smyth Research to invest its resources in obtaining certification for those formats if no Hollywood movies will be encoded in them, or if, in the case of the very few already encoded DTS-X titles, Atmos encoded movies will also be available as an alternative? As I understand it, Auro 3D will be the tiniest of niche markets, if it has anything offered in it at all, so why bother? It's pretty obvious, if it wasn't obvious in 2016 that Dolby Atmos will pretty much be it, so in that respect, the Smyths are already where they need to be in terms of what the Realiser decodes IMHO.

By no means does that clear their plate, however. They have so much to do to make the A16 a viable commercial product. In order of priority, I would number those things as follows.

(1) The web interface. The 2 inch window is an absolute joke that makes using this thing a labor of Hercules esspecially for things like PRIR capture. They must provide a better interface. It should be their number one priority and be done ASAP!

(2) PRIR capture via asynchronous and/or digital feed. This is also abysmal. As it currently stands, I don't see how the A16 can be taken to a HiFi shop or a studio and used smoothly to capture PRIRS. It's just too cumbersome. A recording (Blue Ray disc and/or digital file) for asynchronous use, followed by digital feed of the measurement signals, should be their second and third priorities.

(3) Making the A16 a viable ATMOS Home Theater Control Center. They already have a lot of features for this including thing like bass management, but they need to go the rest of the way. They need to include parametric eq for individual channels, individual channel level controls, and most importantly Dirac Live as a software upgrade (and yeah, I expect to pay for that one). That should come after upgrades 1 and 2.

(4) They need to get the Realiser Exchange and customer service up to speed. I am including in this finding providers for PRIRs like what they did in finding AIX in California and Glen Poors Audio in the US when they were selling the A8. Providing other people's PRIR together with a way of personalizing them is important, but nothing will be as important as recruiting providers for Dolby Atmos PRIRs in the US, Europe, and Asia.

(5) Clean up they annoying miscellaneous issues that make the product seem like a Beta Testing Unit. To wit, no USB front out to external DAC/AMPs for processed audio, no Microsoft signed sub driver, no 24/292 or DSD processing, making their remote codes available for 3rd party utilization, and activating the Music, Live, and Game modes.

Further, they should really push to get these five items done by year's end, or at the very latest, by the end of 1st quarter of 2021. I can see item 4 as an ongoing project, but the rest of the items should be brought to complete closure, by the end of the year.

 

[GeorgeA]

....As I understand it, Auro 3D will be the tiniest of niche markets, if it has anything offered in it at all, so why bother? .......
(5) ........no 24/292 or DSD processing......

It seems that Auro-3D for home is mostly used for immersive music projects. With respect to 192 KHz/24 bit, DSD and/or MQA, these approaches shouldn’t be priorities. The existing PCM 44.1/16 and/or 96/24 formats cover the usual needs unless certain hype is involved.

 

[1m1a]

@1m1a, you can view your glass as being more than half full as you will eventually be receiving an upgraded A16 without having to go through the upgrade and shipping expense that some of us are now going through. Heck, there’s a chance that you have your unit in hand before my unit is even shipped back to me.

Yes, I'm glad that I will be getting an upgraded A16 (although after almost 4 years of waiting I'll believe it when it arrives on my doorstep), however unless they really need the money I would hope that they would prioritize getting the units to those of us that have been waiting so long. For users #204 and earlier to get their original shipment AND an upgrade shipment before the rest of us even get our first one would be one more disappointment in quite a long string of disappointing developments in the Kickstarter timeline. All we can do is patiently wait and hope for more frequent drips of information from James, et al. A little more info would make this easier to bear.

 

[Fox1977]

Yes, I'm glad that I will be getting an upgraded A16 (although after almost 4 years of waiting I'll believe it when it arrives on my doorstep), however unless they really need the money I would hope that they would prioritize getting the units to those of us that have been waiting so long. For users #204 and earlier to get their original shipment AND an upgrade shipment before the rest of us even get our first one would be one more disappointment in quite a long string of disappointing developments in the Kickstarter timeline. All we can do is patiently wait and hope for more frequent drips of information from James, et al. A little more info would make this easier to bear.

Backer #204 got his A16 at the beginning of March, but i am #203 and still waiting for my unit. The good thing is that i am supposed to get the upgraded version directly.
Originally i got an email saying that i was supposed to get it by the end of March, but with the quarantine and everything, shipping has still not be resumed yet.
On Smyth-Research website it's written :

Our business operations here in the UK are running normally.

As much as it’s business as usual, we are adhering to the Government’s advice and most of us are now working from home; we are preparing devices for shipment and aim to have these sent out as soon as possible.

I had hoped i'd get my unit before the end of the quarantine so that i could have some time to explore it (even though with remote working from home, i don't work less than at the office, if not more), but looks like i'll go back to the office by May, 11th so that ship seems to have sailed...